New Chapter for TWOW

I've not seen the Theon sample chapter, but I just read Arianne's. Sry, Kiwi, and Big Bear all had good observations. But I don't think that any of you really got yourselves into the proper mindset to read ASOIAF. You're doing normal reading... and that does not quite cut it with this epic.

My apologies for the chastising you, but let me share a few observations. I believe that this chapter gives us many little juicy morsels of information. Not all of them are as juicy as the last one. When I'm finished, then you can call me arrogant, self-righteous, and long winded. If you already know that I tend to be pedantic and verbose and you don't want to completely waste your time, then skip down to the paragraph beginning with the word "Finally."

First, just as Sry stated, Doran is fully committed to a Targaryen return and a Lannister downfall. He's sent his eldest son and now his eldest child, at times both were considered his heirs, off on dangerous and deadly missions. If they are discovered, Doran will be convicted of treason. If they fail, he loses a child and heir. If they succeed, then he's fully committed to treason. For a patient schemer, he's finally gone all in. His only way out is if his children fail and are killed... then he has deniability and time to plan for his last child, Tristayne, to overcome the Lannisters.

In addition, Doran has surrounded Arianne with Oberyn's own squire and daughter. This shows his willingness to commit to action.

Second, Doran personally shut down Damon Sand's romance with Arianne... and now Doran personally appointed him as Arianne's bodyguard. Arianne is a fool to think this is coincidental or that Damon is doing this for vengeance. Damon is getting paid handsomely by Doran. And don't think for an instant that if Doran told Damon about Quentyn's mission that he did not inform Damon of Arianne's treason and her seduction of Arys. Damon will not fall for Arianne. In fact, his presence may be to make sure that Arianne does not commit further treason... Damon may be her executioner as much as her bodyguard.

The third bit of information is that Areo Hotah is off with Obara chasing Darkstar. This means that unless we get a totally new POV in Dorne, then no more info on Doran is coming to us. Arianne and Areo were access to Doran like Davos and Jon are access to Stannis. We'll probably be in the dark regarding Dorne's movements until they miraculously appear on the battlefield. But the converse is also true, Areo is off chasing a Dayne. I don't know if he's going to the Dayne ancestral home, Starfall. But we'll probably get some information on House Dayne from Areo... i.e. What in the world happened to Ashara Dayne, Eddard's first love? Did she really commit suicide? Is she really Jon's mother?

Fourth, there is some information regarding Arianne's traitorous friend... Andrey Dalt, Garin, or Sylva Santagar. Drey and Garin were both exiled. Sylva was wedded to old man Estermont. Remember that Arianne is her father's heir because the laws of succession in Dorne allow for the eldest child to inherit regardless of sex. Soooo, Sylva is supposedly being punished by marrying an old, old man. When he dies childless, who will inherit? Sylva. Oh, did I mention that she's an only child so that she'll inherit her family's lands and titles as well? It seems to me that she now stands to inherit both Spottswood and Greenstone. Two were exiled and one was gifted with lands and title... do we still wonder who the traitor was?

The fifth thing that struck me was this chapter sets up Sansa. The comparisons to Sansa seem obvious to me. Both are well bred princesses who thought they'd never be included in the game. Both love their little fantasies of love. Even though younger, Sansa has had her blinders ripped off... and she now wants to learn to patiently play the game without fantasies. Arianne, on the other hand, is still rushing into the game and indulging in her romantic illusions. The memories of sex, the desire for sex, and the failed seduction are not for titillation... they are for character revelation.
"That was before, when I was just a girl, she told herself. I am a woman now, my father's daughter. I have learned that lesson."
Click to expand...
She's in for trouble... she's a shorter, less ruthless Cersei. We know how Cersei would conduct diplomacy with Jon Connington... wine and sex and promises and sex. Arianne makes Sansa seem wise.

Next we find out that Greenstone has been captured by Connington's men. Earlier I mentioned that Sylva was now Lady Greenstone. Hmmmmm. Sylva and her aged husband may be the way that Arianne confirms Connington. Then again, Sylva may end up spying on Arianne again.

Finally, the thing that most caught my attention was that Aurane Waters did not sail to Stannis (whom he supported when Stannis besieged KL) and Arianne is about to embark upon a romance with the ******* of Driftmark. Do you remember Aurane? He's a House Velaryon *******. The Velaryons are a Valyrian family like the Daynes and Targaryens. Cersei made him Master of Ships in AFFC. She thought he looked like Rhaegar. Soon after Aurane absconded with ALL of Cersei's new warships.

The following quote is from the Arianne TWOW sample. Valena Toland is giving Arianne the news...
"... And that's not half of it. A new pirate king has set up on Torturer's Deep. The Lord of the Waters, he styles himself. This one has real warships, three-deckers, monstrous large."
Click to expand...

This Lord of the Waters has real triple decked warships? Where in the world did he get them?

So there is a pirate king between Arianne and Connington.

Do you remember Arianne's first POV in AFFC? She had a memory of a desert oasis...
I sat beside the well and pretended that some robber knight had brought me here to have his way with me.
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Arianne also asked Damon if Viserys was handsome. Everyone knows that Rhaegar was gorgeous, ergo Viserys, her poor, murdered, denied love, must have been handsome too. Silver hair. Purple eyes. Rhaegar. Viserys. Darkstar. Aurane Waters.

Sooooo.... that's what I got out of the sample. Call me crazy. Kiss me. Just don't ignore me.

Edit: I forgot to mention that this sample says nothing regarding Ser Balon Swann. I believe, in ADWD, that he is challenged by Doran to hunt down Gerold Dayne, aka Darkstar. If so, then he's with Areo and Obara and presumably the Lannisters still do not know anything regarding Myrcella's maiming. Doran is still supressing all signs of treason...
 
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I don't know whether to kiss you or punch you, Boaz. Brilliant analysis, as always. Is there nothing that you overlook?
 
Good analysis; it has only enforced my opinion of Arianne.
 
Wow, I really didn't get into proper mindset to read it if I've missed all that. :) And to think that I've missed so much here on forum since I've been gone.
 
juleska said:
I don't know whether to kiss you or punch you, Boaz. Brilliant analysis, as always. Is there nothing that you overlook?
Click to expand...
Kiss me for the observations, punch me for the attitude. Hey, I don't know if I'd call it analysis... just observations and my usual ridiculous conclusions. I wasn't going to read it, but since everyone was posting that there was nothing there, I had to see for myself... so I kind of went through it with a Boaz-toothed comb.

I just thought it really interesting that we got confirmation that Aurane is now the Dread Pirate Waters.

Edit: By the way... GRRM throws so much information out there for the express purpose of masking his real agendas. In hindsight, it is easy to spot the foreshadowing. One of the best ever on screen was "I see dead people." The problem is that ASOIAF is so much longer than The Sixth Sense and there are hundreds of lines that could be THE "I see dead people" line that I don't know which are real and which are fake. I referenced Arianne's fantasy of being captured by a bandit and I'm trying to force that onto her being captured by Aurane... Mayhaps that's just a red herring from GRRM... I dunno. And the multiple references to Greenstone may also just be nothing. Mayhaps none of my observations will impact the story... mayhaps GRRM has ruined my brain. Mayhaps I'm looking too hard for conspiracies and connections.
 
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Boaz I know how you feel. I am rereading ADWD now to try and see if I missed anything. I had been wondering about Waters for a while now. Ever since Cersei said that bit about him looking like Rhaegar. There are a lot of silver haired people out there nowadays. Also I am wondering what is going to happen with Victarion Greyjoy. If he and his fleet rescue Daenerys and her army, then what?

I am thinking that they do and that he helps her and her army get to the western coast of Westeros. Then the crap will hit the fan something terrible. Aegon and the Golden Company link up with Dorne and the army of Sunspear in the southeast. Victarion and Daenerys attack Lannisport in the west.

While Cersei sits in Kings Landing, waiting to see which one beheads her first. Its a lovely image.
 
Warning! Two crackpot theories on parentage of important characters.

I know I've missed more than I realize. After my first read of the first three books, I still never considered that Eddard was not Jon's true father.

I'm probably also imagining more than GRRM has planned... I personally think that Tywin never fathered any children... I think that Aerys II had three legal children and at least four bastards... I think that Rhaegar, Cersei, Jaime, Tyrion, Viserys, Jon and Dany are all siblings.
 
Yes, definitely jumping the crazy boat! It's a shame, because that reading of the Arianne chapter was an excellent piece of work.




(I'm only saying 'crazy boat' to help ward off any attempts by the US authorities to co-opt Boaz into the CIA/FBI/NSA/Whatever to do the sort of analysis that requires seeing what really underlies seemingly innocent documents. If that happened, I doubt Boaz would be allowed to post here. No, it's more than doubt: Boaz would definitely have to Chuck it in.... :(;))
 
The Dornish are quite important to the story though. They showed up halfway through ASoS, and were mentioned frequently before that, so they've had an important presence in the story for more than half of its length. The fact that they weren't around for the start of the story doesn't mean they're unimportant. Unless people want to start arguing that Eowyn and Denethor are unimportant to LotR because they weren't around on Page 1? ;)

In related news, GRRM has read two new chapters from TWoW at a convention. Both feature Ser Barristan Selmy as the Battle for Meereen gets underway.
 
I'm always happy to hear about new chapter readings.
It means that even with revisions, most of those pages for the book are done.
 
Boaz, my love, I am glad you could lift the darkness in this thread from what I thought was a very important preview chapter. Dorne is central to the denouement of ASOIF.

Surely after roasting poor Quentyn ( a character I indentify with by the way), Arianne will become more important. Those Arianne chapters in AFFC set us up for this. The new Arianne that will treat with Jon Connington.

No doubt she will have more than one chapter in TWOW and I am excited to see the potential reapperance of Auranne Waters, the ******* with Targaryan features - so much so that Cersei kept seeing Aegon before her when they sat in the Small Council.
 
TK! Long time, no see. I'm confused... well, I'm more confused than usual.. "My love?" I thought that was your girlfriend in the avatar... Aren't you a little curvy for a Stormtrooper?

But more confusing is the word denouement. I had to look it up. I used to know what that meant thirty years ago when I studied for the SATs.

And finally, you identify with Quentyn because he was roasted? From the avatar, it's difficult to see any burns...
 
Boaz, I laughed when I read your reply.

I meant "my love" in the best possible way. Not in the Gollum sense. My girlfriend says hi.

I identify with Quentyn. Awkward, well-intentioned, doubts himself and get's roasted often. I try to hide it under my swimsuit and helmet.
 
Okay... after rereading the last three posts, all I can say is that.... I had to look up denouement...

...again.
 
I read this chapter... twice now... just like I did with the Theon Chapter.

Thank you Boaz for the breakdown! even reading it twice i didn't get all of that from it.
 
AW, thanks... but I may be seeing more than is there. GRRM has fooled me so many times that I might just be jumping at shadows.
 
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