Lemon Pies

[Young stormlord]

Ok, I don't have time to look for quotes and citations but it's pretty obvious once you start looking for it in the books... What is it? Well, the fact that GRRM hates lemon pies and cookies containing lemons.

How do I know that? In ASOIAF they are symbol of ridiculousness. Here's why.

1) At one point in ACOK (after Cersei kissed him), Tyrion said that he wouldn't be more surprised if Aegon The Conqueror burst into the room riding his dragon and juggling lemon pies.

2) At another point in another book, Old Bear and Sam are talking about dragonglass. Sam says: "Maesters call it obsidian" on which Mormont replies (paraphrased): "They could call it lemon pie, for all I care. What it matters is that it works against Others."

And final proof:

3) Sansa, the character that made most stupid decisions has favourite cakes. Those are lemon cakes...

Thoughts?

P.S. If you find more references, please post it here. I didn't have time to find and post them all...

 

[Boaz]

I like it, but I'm afraid that the Old Bear (I particularly think that GRRM likes him) enjoys lemon in his beer.

Maybe GRRM does not like oranges. Robert, Eddard, and some squire named Dacks once had an orange fight in the Great Hall of the Arryns.

 

[Eulalia]

Perhaps lemon pies are associated with clowns, bad old time comedy and getting pied in the face. I think it is the meringue (how do you spell that) that does the damage.

Lemon cakes, I think they are a bit more fussy and lady like.

I am re reading the series out of order. I thought it was in preparation for the imminent Dance, but no matter, it's awesome.

I think Theon has Sansa beat for bad decisions. (although it is plot that makes them so) Wow--I was starting to feel sorry for him even though he is such a narcissistic jerk. He just gets deeper, struggling for recognition. He starts to creep himself out by his own behaviour. He is intelligent, but understands situations just that little too late. Brilliant character. Sansa actually shows a few signs of social deftness, understanding situations, thoughtful assessment and kindness, when she isn't being gulled by romance. New thread?

 

[Boaz]

Have you guys watched Mad Men? The characters in Mad Men consistently make horrible decisions... they read some situations perfectly while completely misreading others. And they give each other tons of solicited and unsolicited advice... but everyone ignores good advice and always acts upon bad counsel. The show is like watching Sansa, Theon, Joffrey, Cersei, Robb, Eddard, Catelyn, Jaime, Janos, Aeron, and Brienne. ASOIAF, like Mad Men, is brilliant in displaying smart people doing dumb things.

 

[Wiggum]

Have you ever had a lemon pie?

They are a strict matter of taste. Both my grandfather, and my parents had lemon trees, all three were frugal.

Lemon pies are awful....until you've had two. They then become, especially when covered with whipped cream, an angel's song.

 

[Koopa]

You must make them different then i do then.

 

[Young stormlord]

I like it, but I'm afraid that the Old Bear (I particularly think that GRRM likes him) enjoys lemon in his beer.

Maybe GRRM does not like oranges. Robert, Eddard, and some squire named Dacks once had an orange fight in the Great Hall of the Arryns.

I guess the beer is ok, it's only cakes that are troubling. As for oranges, there's Merrybold, traveling septon that likes them very much (guy leading Brienne around).

 

[Eulalia]

I just read the phrase "dark pines(?) against a lemon sky" in the Clash of Kings. I think it is meant to be disturbing.

It also just dawned on me that the rhythm of the Hymn to the Mother that Sansa and the others sing in the sept during a battle is based on the music of Beethoven's Ode to Joy, which is also used for the base of a Christian hymn. GRRM is a clever fellow and a poet!

 

[Wiggum]

A lemon pie is two steps away from a key lime pie. Give me apple every day of the week, but if you're the one cooking a lemon, I'll take it.

 

[Eulalia]

Cherry Pie, Rasperry Pie, Pumpkin and Strawberry Rhubarb are best. Whipped cream is an asset. Now I need to taste lemon.
Steak and Kidney Pie with HP sause kicks a$$, too. It is known.

If you are going to murder someone, make sure you do a live pidgeon pie as a distration.

 

[Koopa]

I have rhubarb growing in my backyard, never thought of making pie with it though.

 

[Eulalia]

The rhubarb part is easy. Take off all the leafy green part because it is poisonous. Coarsely chop up the reddish stems. Stew them with lots of sugar. You can eat that(a bit mushy), put it on ice cream as a sauce, or combine it with less tart fruit (strawberry or peach)to make a pie more tangy/sour. It's also cheap, especially if it's from your backyard.

I don't know if GRRM has it is his books or not. He certainly describes feasts thoroughly.

 

[Wiggum]

I have rhubarb growing in my backyard, never thought of making pie with it though.

Really?

I know we live in much different parts of the world, but rhubarb pie is a key to summer here.

I might hate it personally, but, I did sell it with lemonade when I ran my last stand,

50 cents got you a slice of rhubarb pie, and a glass of lemonade, while coming up a 100 foot grade.

My friend in business, Rachel, had a mother that worked for NPR. She recorded us, and taped us selling. Hearing that on the radio was too funny for either of us. We just rolled laughing, holding our bellies.

Raven or Cul, I know I'm off topic, and delete if it's the right thing to do.

But I swear, a tired and sweaty biker, coming up a steep hill and meeting a stand that will give them lemonade and a peice of pie, it's golden.

 

[Eulalia]

Good story Wiggum. All rhubarb pie. Not lacking in zap. A rhubarb crumble is good.

I really like how GRRM uses food all the time. He shows the social status of people and the atmosphere in general very quickly with that. One can tell how desparate or spoiled people are, and how generous, by what they are willing to eat and how they eat it. For example, Arya will eat bugs to survive (while some of her companions will not) and even gets to enjoy a nice "bowl of brown"-shudder-, meanwhile there are 77 courses planned for Joffrey's wedding but Sansa can't eat much. Mind you she is planning to escape.

Lazy Leo boasts about eating "suckling pig in plum sauce, stuffed with chestnuts and white truffles" while talking to Pate (spotted pig boy he calls him?) and asks what the other boys had eaten who had only shared boiled mutton. He is established as a spoiled upper class jerk right off. It's the little things.

 

[TK-421]

Does this mean Lemon Lem will die a horrible and painful death to satisfy a loathing of anything with lemons?

As a kid, my grandparents would give me stalks of rubarb that grew in their garden with sugar to dip it in to eat. I loved it then.

 

[Eulalia]

Oi, TK, you have sturdy taste buds.

Will Lem be squeezed, that is the question?

 

[dyffeg]

Hi all,
have just started re re reading A Game For Thrones, and behold! mention of lemon... though lemon tree not lemon pie.

Dany lives for a while pre-marriage in Braavos, "in the big house with the red door. Dany had her own room there, with a lemon tree outside her window." (page 25)

On the next page it refers to how all she wanted back was "the lemon tree outside her window, and the childhood she had never known."

So here lemon = good part of childhood and security
Dyffeg

 

[Boaz]

Good one, dyffeg.

 

[Wiggum]

Seriously dyffeg, good catch!

 

[dyffeg]

Why thank you. It's great to have such kind words from you both, especially GRRM...oops, I mean Boaz