A song of Ice and Fire?

[Sparks the Knave]

hello all

I have to say that I may well be one of the few members of the site who has yet to read/start reading the song of Ice and fire Novels.

The reason being back a few years now, I was told by my cousin that they are fantastic, but i'd do myself a favour if I waited for them all to be writen and published as it's been a real pain for him waiting between the books over the years.

At any rate, I've held off untill today. while there was no copies of A Game of thrones in stock at my local bookerie, i ordered it to see what I was missing out on.

was wondering what other members thoughts have been on the song, as I have seen it placed in many peoples top ten lists and sometimes not at all.

cheers to all

 

[Werthead]

Funny you should say this. I've just done a similar explanation on another site, so I can just reprint my comments here:

Martin is simply the best author when it comes to characters that I have ever read. Nearly every single character he creates, from lords and kings to stableboys and servants, leaps off the page fully-realised, with their own lives and foibles. Martin is also adept at making you think you know what's going to happen, only to pull the rug from out under your feet without warning. No-one in the series is safe from death. The world of Westeros is also realised superbly, as it is a land where the seasons have been thrown out of balance, lasting for years at a time, and knights perform chivalrous deeds for the honour of fair maidens...until the wars come, when the true nature of men is revealed. Martin's urgent need to smash genre preconceptions of honour, chivalry and show the reader what it was really like in the Medieval period results in an uncomfortable read at times (death and treachery are constant dangers), but the gripping storyline and believable characters hold the attention throughout.

The series consists of the novels A Game of Thrones, A Clash of Kings, A Storm of Swords (published in two volumes in the UK) and A Feast for Crows. Book 5, A Dance with Dragons, will be published in the spring or early summer of 2007, and will be followed by two more volumes. Unlike certain other series (cough cough Robert Jordan), this series needs to be this long to satisfactorily address all the plotlines raised in the earlier volumes. There are also two novellas, The Hedge Knight and The Sworn Sword, set ninety years earlier. A third will be published at the start of next year and will be followed by others filling in some of the backstory to the main sequence novels.

George RR Martin is, in my opinion, the best writer of epic fantasy since Tolkien himself (and in some respects, most notably characterisation, is better) and an important voice in modern fantasy (of any stripe). He has also proven remarkably successful at appealing to non-fantasy readers due to his historical fidelity to the realism of the Middle Ages (Bernard Cornwell fans seem to enjoy GRRM a lot as well, for example). He is just about the only author I know who I can reccomend without reservation. If you have not read him, you are seriously missing out on an important series in the SF&F field. Thank you.

I would also add that GRRM seems to go down a lot better in Europe than the USA. In the USA, for some reason, a lot of readers have trouble with the sex and violence in the books (which are present in small doses, but not extreme nor as gratuitous as with other authors), possibly because epic fantasy in the US is still seen as a kids' genre, rather than a serious adult outlet for the telling of stories.

 

[Wiggum]

As an American I can state that we are completely desensitized to violence.

It's boobies that scare us.

Outside of that, I agree with Werthead.

ASoIaF, could, for me, turn out to be better than LoTR if the quality and pacing keeps up.

The only thing I ever warn new readers of is that the first book is going to inevitably going to confuse you. The intial barage of families, characters, bannermen and all the rest is overwhelming at first. Let yourself be a bit baffled for awhile without getting frustrated.

 

[Boaz]

Wigs, it was that initial barage that I loved. Martin did not walk me through an introduction with multiple explanations. He assumed that I have a brain and could work it all out. Reading Martin is really reading... sometimes reading is like watching TV... some authors assume you are stupid and don't want you to engage your intellect with their work... Martin's work is fascinating and it engages my processes of deduction and induction. Good stuff.

I hope this makes sense. I suppose I should just stick to clarity... Me like Martin.

 

[Wiggum]

In retrospect I did too, but it's easy to look back after you've figured it out and not be bothered by it.

But I've lent, or convinced, several people to start reading the books and they're initial complaint is alway feeling overwhelmed.

 

[Boaz]

But some stories need to be reread because they are so broad in scope and have casts in the hundreds...

The Silmarillion, War and Peace, The Illiad, Twelve Caesars by Suetonius, Anabasis by Xenophon, Histories by Herodotus, I Kings, II Kings, Shogun by James Clavell, Romance of the Three Kingdoms, Tirant lo Blanc (the author escapes me), Gulliver's Travels by Jonathan Swyft, Red Storm Rising by Tom Clancy, Caesar's The Gallic Wars, The Pilgrim's Progress by John Bunyan, and Hawaii by James Michener.

I don't like all of the works listed above. Some of them are tedious and some are fascinating. Some of them require little prior understanding of the subject and some require a wealth of prior familiarity with the subject matter. But all are large in scope.

These books I've listed all require the reader to really pay attention to names, places, dates, and their interrelations. Some of these do not really have easy introductions... especially the ancient histories... the authors expect the reader to hit the ground running. I, for one, appreciate not being spoon fed... well, sometimes.

I must admit that I love Edgar Rice Burroughs' John Carter series, the first Dragonlance books, and my old Spiderman comics. None of these latter works require much mental work from the reader... I did not mean to come across as a snob.

People should read what they are in the mood for... but I don't like it when a work is dismissed as too hard... except for technical guides for oxygen supply systems in interplanetary space craft.

Edit: ASOIAF could be introduced to a friend as what they like to read, ie. Fantasy, History, Intrigue, or Human Drama.

 

[cornelius]

i've started ASOIAF too , i'm at book II right now

 

[Wiggum]

People should read what they are in the mood for... but I don't like it when a work is dismissed as too hard...

Which I wasn't doing.

My advice has always been to allow yourself to be confused when you begin AGoT, not to be too frustrated by it. Not to set it aside as too convoluted and hard to follow.

For as the pages pass, so does the confusion.

 

[sophocles]

In retrospect I did too, but it's easy to look back after you've figured it out and not be bothered by it.

But I've lent, or convinced, several people to start reading the books and they're initial complaint is alway feeling overwhelmed.

i can second that .. i've read all four books now .. and like the massess anxiously await AdwD .. but i must confess.. i almost didn't make it through the first book which i started just a few months ago .. the people, houses, banners... and references... was almost too much for me.

i am glad to (paraphrase another poster) i had a brain and was able to sort it out .. or a very good book woulda sorted its way to the dumpster ... sacrilege...!

hands the barkeep a few gold dragons for another round for us all

 

[kimb]

I started reading this series about a year and a half ago. I never really picked up a science-fiction/fantasy book before this- mostly only horror/mystery novels. My boyfriend's coworker gave me the first book- I read the first 75 pages and then stopped reading- it was a little overwhelming for me. I may not have picked it up again but I LOVE big books- the thicker, the better. From there I read ASOS and ACOK within a 3 month time span. I preordered AFFC from the UK because I couldn't wait.
It may be overwhelming but stick with it. I agree with the statement that you should enjoy it and not worry about who is who- it gets easier. Plus, even if you don't catch everything, I'm sure you will reread the book at least once again. I've read all of them at least 2 or 3 times. Another thing is that at first it would take me such a long time to read a single page- once you get used to Martin's writing, it goes by much faster.

 

[Boaz]

Wiggum, I did not mean for you to take my second post as criticism. From your first post, your position was clear

For as the pages pass, so does the confusion.

Very well said.

 

[sophocles]

i've started ASOIAF too , i'm at book II right now

Awesome Cornelius. Keep those pages turning.

I envy you as you don't yet know what happens.... but i'll tell you this:

It only get's better!

 

[Werthead]

For those who feel overwhelmed, I reccommend 'The Citadel' section of www.westeros.org, or the message board at asoiaf.westeros.org, both of which should help ease your confusion.

 

[genisis2]

Its funny I didnt have that much of a problem with Martins characters whereas my first Erickson book whom I think is a fantastic bloody writer had me going back and forth. Definately hard to keep up with a book with an S*** load of characters.

 

[Marya]

I started A Game of Thrones about 3 weeks ago (and it's overdue at the library - oops). I would say I got about 1/4 of the way into it and then places and characters started making some sense and the story is getting really interesting (and tense). Although I would like *to give Lady Lysa and her kid a good smack.*

 

[Sparks the Knave]

I got all the (so far) A song of Ice and Fire books in the other day (a long wait when you are inbetween books and are unwilling to start anything else haha), and am currently about halfway through a game of thrones. Found I was hooked by the end of the second chapter *Bran: the excecution, the Stark family & the finding of the direwolf cubs*of course I've still got a ways to go, but I think I'll be happy that I won't have to wait between books as I've got them all up to a feast for crows waiting for me.

will the hedge knight etc be worth getting afterwards also? to complement the series? thank you to all who have posted

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

It entirely depends on how 'hooked' you get really

The story of the Hedge Knight is in no way essential to understanding and following A Song of Ice & Fire, it's more to do with fleshing out the world of Westeros. There's still a little vagueness about what will be covered in these stories but I think we'll see some important events occur which are alluded to in ASoIaF such as the death of Aerion Brightflame & the tragedy of Summerhall, which seems to affect Rhaegar so much.

 

[Werthead]

Yep. We'll also likely see the War of the Ninepenny Kings, Rhaegar's birth and see Barristan Selmy and Gerold Hightower when they are young.

GRRM hasn't absolutely 100% confirmed it, but some comments he's made plus the end of The Sworn Sword seem to suggest that the third short story will be set in the North, which will still be recovering from the King-beyond-the-Wall Raymun Redbeard's devastating invasion at the time the story takes place. That's not definite, though.