On writing for young adults....

[Culhwch]

Heya, Mark! I hope this hasn't been discussed somewhere before in your pages - I had a quick scan of thread titles, and couldn't find anything relevant. Though in this place that doesn't necessarily mean much....

I was just wondering what it was that inspired you to write for young adults? Was it a conscious decision on your part? Or is it that that is what came when you started writing? Or, indeed, was it a publisher's decision?

I ask because I have been considering my own writings lately, and feeling that in the majority of instances, my style and voice might be better suited to a YA audience. I've never really written with any particular audience in mind, but I can't help but feel that my work lacks the maturity and depth that I admire in my favourite 'for grown-ups' authors...

Yes, well, I think I have blabbered on enough. Cheers in advance!

 

[Joel007]

Mark answered this before...

I'll take these together, as they are very interlinked.

I didn't really choose to write for young adult. I chose to write fantasy that could be enjoyed by all ages. This is also my reading material of choice at the moment. I guess I'm a bit of a lazy reader, as I've always enjoyed fast moving stories with plenty of action, but that doesn't mean that I can't enjoy the more hefty reads every now and then. Part of it is a time factor. I rarely have enough time to tackle some of the weightier tomes that dominate the fantasy shelves these days.

It appears that many other people fall into this category, which has led to the rise in popularity of young adult authors with the adult readers. It has subsequently made sense to market my work as young adult, as that's the hot potato at the moment. If I were to brand my work by relating it to other authors, then I would place it in the same vein/readability as the early works of David Eddings (Belgariad) and Anne McCaffrey, either of which could easily have been marketed as young adult fiction, but weren't.

I will inevitably attempt more complex and detailed fantasies in due course, but for the time being I'm having fun writing action stories that are of a more dynamic nature. I do love reading more complex fantasies when I have the time, and am in awe of some of the writers out there (including Kelpie, for whom I have the utmost respect) who can devise such completely developed worlds with a wealth of depth and history. At the moment, I don't feel ready to tackle this sort of undertaking, but I will attempt it eventually.

 

[Mark Robson]

Thanks, Joel! You know, I'd forgotten I'd written this reply - it was that long ago. I was about to pen something very similar again, so you saved me the effort.

It is interesting to see how my writing is developing and changing with every book. Over the last two days I've read the page proofs of Imperial Assassin to look for any final amendments/typos/typesetting errors. I read the manuscript aloud to myself, which was an interesting exercise. There is little doubt that my writing is getting less cluttered with every book. I can see, however, that there are levels to the writing that I will want to add in future works which just aren't there at the moment.

At present my balance between history, the individuals and the plot is heavily weighted in favour of plot and character, with very little history and detail of the surroundings in which the story is set. I'd like to eventually balance these a little more evenly, which will most likely appeal to an older audience.

 

[Culhwch]

Thank you both. Evidently didn't look hard enough...

 

[Joel007]

In keeping with the whole young adults thing:

Why would publishers who have seen the successes of the harry potter (looong) books demand progressively shorter novels? In my experience the best series get longer every time. There seems to be no logic - if you want short books then you keep the entire series short, not stifle each book until you have a ridiculous limit and are unable to fit the original design in...

 

[Mark Robson]

With my publisher's hat on, there is a production cost element, which in turn affects profit margin. However, to be honest I don't know that this really justifies their position. On the other hand, if you take a look at something like the Hungry City series by Phillip Reeve, or the Darren Shan vampire series. Both of these sell very strongly in the YA market. I would estimate those at only 70-75 000 words, so perhaps they are not too far wrong on their length estimates.

As I think I've already said, if nothing else the limit will teach me discipline within my plot structure - I will gain something positive from this one way or another.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Why would publishers who have seen the successes of the harry potter (looong) books demand progressively shorter novels? In my experience the best series get longer every time. There seems to be no logic - if you want short books then you keep the entire series short, not stifle each book until you have a ridiculous limit and are unable to fit the original design in...

Just because one writer has been wildly successful in spite of the unusual length of her books doesn't mean that everyone (or even anyone) else who tried the same thing would be successful, too. YA publishers know their market. They also know their production costs (as Mark points out). What would be illogical is for them to assume that every long book they published would be another Harry Potter. A few such mistakes could cost them a lot of money.

 

[Joel007]

Its the idea of each book being shorter than the last that irks me. It should be either upwards or stable. I mean, its like having less and less complex plots allowed in each installment.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

But who is it that is demanding progressively shorter books? Maybe we could address your question better if we knew which books and which publishers are involved, and what information you have that it's even an editorial decision. (Did you read an article on the subject? It would help if we knew the particulars) In some cases, it may be the author's decision, which is to say, the way the story developed in the writer's mind.

 

[dwndrgn]

Kelpie I believe Joel is referencing a discussion of Mark's about the restrictions that his publisher has given him on is Imperial series. You can find the text here: http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/6783-imperial-spy-6.html#post223089

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Well, I may be wrong, but it sounds like Mark is talking there about the brand new series he is working on -- the one with the dragons. And he doesn't say anything about each book in that series being shorter than the one before it, so Joel's comments still don't make sense to me. Either there is a third discussion being referenced, or something is going right over my head.

 

[Joel007]

I was hard up against the word limit imposed by the publisher...
I do find it a little irritating at times that many of my readers are asking for longer books, with more complexity and depth of setting and characterisation, while the publishers are constantly squeezing me the other way - Imperial Assassin will be ten thousand words shorter and I've been given a word limit that's a further five thousand shorter for the final novel. There's only so much that can be done within such constraints. My writing is not yet tight enough to give everyone what they want, but I'm still working at it.

That's what I'm trying to see the logic in.

 

[Mark Robson]

Joel is right about the Imperial series - I am being given progressively tighter word targets for each book by the senior editor. This restriction on the Imperial books is a touch irksome. It has made the plot for the last book, and the tying up of the loose ends, a difficult thing to refine. The last thing I want is for it to feel rushed.

I hadn't really got around to discussing the dragon books here yet, but I suppose it is time to formalise the fact that I shall definitely be writing them. I'll start another thread shortly. There was a length issue with these books too - their initial suggestion was 40 000 words/book. I decided they were having a laugh! The agreed length/book is 70 000, which should still be long enough to hold on to a good proportion of my adult audience.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

So he was referencing something from another conversation -- or at least not the page at the end of the link. That explains my confusion.

I expect your publishers aren't thinking so much about the readers you already have, the ones who are asking for more, because those are already hooked. They're trying to reel in those who have so far resisted the urge to buy your books and/or fall in love with them. As many enthusiastic readers as you have, publishers always seem to want more.

 

[Mark Robson]

As many enthusiastic readers as you have, publishers always seem to want more.

Isn't that the truth! Still, if I'm honest, then my motivation is in a similar direction. If I'm to make a reasonable living at this, then I'm going to need a fairly big and loyal following - certainly at least four to ten times my current readership. However, it's early days and I'm looking forward to seeing what sort of figures I can create in my first Christmas season as a mainstream author. You can be sure that I'll be looking to pack in the events later in the year.

I've been trawling the YA shelves over the last couple of days and I have to admit that the majority of books there are roughly in the region of 70 000 words long. The exceptions are the Jonathan Strouds and the Trudi Canavans etc, but the majority of the books are shorter than those. It seems I was trying to run before I could walk. The story in Imperial Assassin hasn't suffered for being 10 000 words shorter than the previous one. I'm guessing that Imperial Traitor will come together in a similar fashion as I reach the latter stages of the manuscript. What I may do is deliberately write too much and then edit it down afterwards. This should allow me to better balance the pace through the story.

 

[Carolyn Hill]

What I may do is deliberately write too much and then edit it down afterwards. This should allow me to better balance the pace through the story.

Will you tell us all the bits you edit out? (Please?)

 

[Mark Robson]

Will you tell us all the bits you edit out? (Please?)

If I have to edit out entire scenes, then yes, I don't see a problem with that. It would probably be better to wait until the book is out before I post a deleted scenes thread, or it will be a little confusing.

 

[Patrick Mahon]

If I have to edit out entire scenes, then yes, I don't see a problem with that. It would probably be better to wait until the book is out before I post a deleted scenes thread, or it will be a little confusing.

Mark,
We're now approaching that time, of course - so could you still be tempted to post some deleted scenes to the Forums, once Imperial Assassin is out? I imagine there would be a lot of interest...

 

[Mark Robson]

Just realised that I never responded to this. Imperial Assassin was an oddball, as nothing was really removed ... bits were added! Imperial Traitor, on the other hand will lose a few scenes ... and gain a few. I might look to post some of the cut scenes from the third book sometime in the summer.

 

[Patrick Mahon]

Thanks Mark - will look forward to seeing any such cut material . What is the current state of play with Imperial Traitor? Is is still scheduled for a September release? Some of us here are starting to get withdrawal symptoms!