Feedback

[Brian G Turner]

If you'd like to give any feedback no the entire issue of Chronicles of Empire, then feel free to post your comments here.

I don't mind at all if it's critical. Frankly, the more the better. I already know that there are issues with the writing I need to address precisely because some people cared to offer some honest and important objections.

Anyway - the website, the sample chapters...characters, resources, short stories and Showcase - if you have comments on any of them, feel free to park them here.

Brian

 

[nemesis]

Don't take it personal, but I just can't stand frames.

 

[Survivor]

Frames are okay...

But in this case, I have to agree. The frames on this site don't have nearly enough utility to justify the amount of screen they take up. I run at 1024 x 768 or greater as a matter of course, but at 800 x 640 which many people prefer they end up covering nearly two thirds of the viewable space. I suggest losing at least one of them and assigning its functions to the remaining frame. You could just lose both of them and provide a single link to the home page on every page.

What are you working on right now? Empire?

 

[Survivor]

That said...

Fortunately, you can get a frameless version of the site by typing http://www.chronicles-network.net/sitemap.htm into your address bar.

 

[RainieGurl]

I love the interative posts with the characters.....FUN!!

I read the 3 chapters you posted here....and have some Q & C, but it will have to wait till later.....

 

[Brian G Turner]

Ah - if it's the "Chronicles of Empire" chapters, then feel free to be critical. I took them to a good crit group after the agents failed to bite, and the consensus was that it was written far too long-windedly - that I repeat information unnecessarily. The style of writing in a third person objective point of view was also queried as being too film-like, rather than literary.

I figure Chronicles will therefore need some serious editing to make it publishable - but I also have the problem that it was written in a specific way. I'm not sure where the point of compromise lays, and because re-editing will be such a major undertaking, I'm going to wait until I have an agent who can advise on the issue.

"Emperor", on the other hand - I see that as my lever into the publishing world. The style is completely different, much more succinct, and faster paced, with each chapter ending on a point of tension. It's actually written as a basic stylistic imitation of Frank Herbert's "Dune". I figure that, whatever the flaws in Emperor, it's generally a market-orientated piece enough to garner serious attention for publishing. I'm actually waiting for two crits from a private critique group, but aside from that I've not had much feedback. You're welcome to join in! Writers are blind to their own errors, and I'm so focussed on becoming published that I won't allow my ego to to interfere. I'm happiest when I'm told where I could be going wrong, because it makes the end goal seem a little nearer.

 

[Survivor]

No, Dune (and the lesser books of the Arrakis saga) was written in solid Third Person Limited Omniscient, with POV shifts at most chapter breaks. The introspective narrative was very heavy, out weighing the external depition in every scene.

I don't really know what you mean by "stylistic imitation", partly because the only technical imprimatur of "style" that I know is vocabulary and usage patterns, which are too difficult to copy (and largely unimportant, as it turns out). But I think that trying to make your work a "stylistic imitation" of someone elses work is a bad idea. Yes, you need to find an accessible narrative voice, but let it be your own--it cannot be anyone else's.

Okay, enough with the motivational speech. Back you work, you!

 

[Brian G Turner]

I don't really know what you mean by "stylistic imitation"

Ah - I mean that because I made such a pig's ear of POV before, I used Dune as a guide as to using Third Person. I still don't think I'm entirely there, but it certainly has to be an improvement on the Third Person Objective I previously used for "Emperor".

Also - I noted how well, at the beginning, Frank Herbert handled the issue of conflict with regards to personal thoughts - especially when juxtaposing "the traitor" Yueh's with Lady Jessica's. Writing books often spoke of using personal conflict - and with those two characters I saw it used in an interesting way.

 

[abomb1508]

i've just started reading your chapters, and i love what i see. far more readable than Tolkien's works, which i found at times tiring and boring.

but i have one minor criticism. the dialect that the characters use is almost exactly like modern conversation, which seems to detract from the whole experience. i find a good book is one i which i can totally forget my surroundings, and this effect is hindered by the mordern-ish dialect.

for example:

"it's not as if it's really my cave or anything"

said by ulric. the "or anything" reference is part of our modern diaect, similar to younger people making excessive use of the word "like".

i'm not quite sure if dialect is the correct word to use here, and correct me if the "or anything" piece was in common use at this time (i'm guessing 5th-6th century AD). hell, i'm only a highschool student. it's just a gut feeling of mine.

anyway, looking forward to more of your stuff.

Cheers,

A-Bomb

 

[Brian G Turner]

Sincere thanks for making the effort to offer comment.

With dialogue I thought it important to make it as accessible as possible, by using modern speech. I'm sure that reading, let alone writing, ye olde sounding English for prolonged periods would become quite tedious. Besides, it would be dangerously fake - a look at Chaucer shows just how different the English language was in the Middle Ages. The aim is always to try and be accessible to the modern reader.

On saying that, though, the sentence illustrated does look wrong. The character of Ulric is a very rustic and simple figure, and to use phrases such as "…or anything" seems like a wasteful figure of speech - and more likely associated with a common urban upbringing. I also wonder how aware Ulric would be with the concept of ownership.

So in short, I agree that the example should be rephrased. I should look for a specific cultural context for the reply, as it is too anachronistic at the moment, by not properly in character for Ulric.

I figure your comment is more general than that, though - so I'll take a harder look at the dialogue, and see if I can improve it. The whole thing is due a major edit, so it's definitely something to look for then.

Thanks again

Brian

 

[abomb1508]

i do not wish for you to write in ye olde english, but i f i make another comparison to LOTR, there you can see that niether has tolkien used old english. he has simply written all dialog transactionally, with almost no figures of speech, and no contractions. this achieved the desired effect in Tolkien's work.

for example:

this is Meriadoc speaking to Legolas in chapter 9 of the two towers, Flotsam and Jetsam. (all third person references between speech have been removed.)

"And there is a great deal, too, that we want to know about you. We have learnt a few things through Treebeard, the Old Ent, but that is not nearly enough."

this isn't old english, merely proper english. but it does sound appropriate. another good example, minus the jargon, is A Clockwork Orange. all the characters in this use a form of old fashioned english, with lines such as

"to what do i owe this joyous visit?"

or something like that. sorry, i don't have a book with me to quote any decent phrases from, but i hope you get what i mean.

Best of luck,

A-Bomb

 

[Brian G Turner]

No probs - Chronicles is due a major edit, so I'll probably look to add a deeper cultural context with the characters. I'll certain take what you said into account. Ulric, in particular, has an isolated rustic level that is hard to tap into. Ezebkial could do with personalising a little more, and tweaking his dialogue expressively could help improve his character somewhat.

Each of the characters has a different way of speaking - Erin speaks properly and without contraction, whereas Jerith's is infused with light-heartedness. And Sirath speaks commonly, in a way somewhat modern, for a number of reasons - not least, the tranmission of humour.

I'm thinking, at the moment, that chronicles will undergo another polish soon, and then I'll probably look to have two versions - one which is massively edited for publishing, whereas the other would be available for free online, and also in a print on demand format - so long as costs are not prohibitive. Of course, I also need to ensure I get an agent's advice on the issue. Fior the moment, I'm using "Emperor" to clear the way in.

Anyway, again thanks for giving feedback. I really am thankful for any such comments. [it's actually compliments I can't handle].

 

[Brian G Turner]

Actually, I just had a look at my first sample chapter again. Hm, it is looking a bit rough now. The entire thing is lacking a proper smooth polish. There's a definite editing need. I'll get onto it as soon as I've finished "Emperor" (I've just given the prologue a new edit - split the POV for better effect - I'll post that up in a few days on the forum link).

 

[nemesis]

You will only let yourself down if you don't edit down. Still it is easier to have something to edit than to write something from nothing. Don't give in to laziness.

 

[Ciros]

I have to say I'm a writer myself. And so is my brother. But going through your characters and reading their descriptions I can honestly say you have some of the greatest characters I have read about. They're all really good.

 

[Omega]

Don't take this the wrong way these other "characters" that post on here, have you set yourself up multiple accounts and replying to yourself, or are these seperate people actually posting.

 

[Brian G Turner]

No probs, and thanks for the comments.

All those with the CoE logo are myself posting. And very soon my long-time girlfriend (who drew the logo) will be drawing character pics for the library, and for character avatar use here. That should make those posts easier to read.

 

[Omega]

[quote author=brian link=board=3;threadid=14;start=15#1010 date=1045092700]
No probs, and thanks for the comments.

All those with the CoE logo are myself posting. And very soon my long-time girlfriend (who drew the logo) will be drawing character pics for the library, and for character avatar use here. That should make those posts easier to read.


[/quote]

Thanks for the speedy response, the snippets I've seen of your work are very good.

So are you going to actuallt publish this work, it would make a very good read.

 

[Sci-fi_gEEk]

Well then, I've been coming to this site for awhile now but, until now I haven't gone and looked at the Chronicles of Empire site. I always mean to but I'm so easily distracted. So this post is a little late. But now I've seen it and all I can say after a short purusal is, HOLY CRAP!!! THATS FREAK'N AWSOME BRIAN!!

I'd like to say something intelligent, but as my previous posts have shown, that seldom happens. Besides I'm still not over being blown away. Major props to you man. I'm looking forward to the read.

gEEk