Aliens (1986)

If you look at the movie, it follows 20th-century sentiments throughout.
They follow the sentiment that corporations have displaced governments, and all the action takes place in space and on alien planets. So what 20th century country's laws apply? In the 20th century, most ships are registered under the laws of Panama, Liberia and the Marshall Islands and their laws apply.

That's what you're saying?
 
What Cameron wanted to avoid was a remake, which is why it isn't.
Ripley and others encounter alien life.
The alien life eliminates everyone who can fight and she confronts the alien and ejects it into space. For me the basic plot is the same except the cat is replaced by the girl.

I don't find any of the sequels necessary, so to me the first movie is fine. No more needs to be told.
Cameron could have remade the Green Slime and had the same action elements.
And there are many ways to depict a military team--they didn't have to go the goofy caricature route. I doubt Ridley Scott would have depicted them that way.
 
They follow the sentiment that corporations have displaced governments, and all the action takes place in space and on alien planets. So what 20th century country's laws apply? In the 20th century, most ships are registered under the laws of Panama, Liberia and the Marshall Islands and their laws apply.

That's what you're saying?

Even in the twentieth century, corporations follow laws because it's to their advantage, too. Examples include limited liability, property rights, and so on. In fact, corporations even operate like little governments, with corporate by-laws and articles of incorporation.

In fact, you can even see that in Aliens. For example, Burke points out that W-Y reached an agreement with the government, to set up terraforming facilities needed to initiate mining operations, from which the company gets mineral rights. This also explains why later Burke tells Ripley that they had to act quickly because otherwise the company would not be able to obtain exclusive rights. That means that because the derelict ship is located above ground, then it doesn't fall under mineral rights. Because the government owns the rock, then they could either award the rights to exploiting the ship to another company or, upon discovering that it contains dangerous organisms, initiate lockdowns and quarantines. Given that, bye-bye exclusive rights.

This also explains why Burke had to try to smuggle the facehuggers to company labs. Even if ECA initiated a lockdown later, it would be too late for the government to stop W-Y because it would already have organisms in its labs ready for R&D and reverse-engineering. That would leave only the eggs and the tech on the derelict ship.

In addition, the same drive to follow laws is even seen in the first movie. Ripley refused to allow Dallas and the others in due to ICC quarantine regulations, and it was Ash, the science officer, of all people, who broke that. Weirdly enough, Ripley not only questioned that but even asked Dallas about Ash. As for Ash, recall that he was following special orders, and for his eyes only. That's because W-Y knew obviously that smuggling dangerous organisms past ICC quarantine would be illegal, not to mention establishing protocols making their personnel expendable. That's why they had to keep all of that secret.

And that's what I'm saying. I've no idea where you're getting this storyline about future legal systems. The ones depicted in the two movies look like the ones at present.
 
Ripley and others encounter alien life.
The alien life eliminates everyone who can fight and she confronts the alien and ejects it into space. For me the basic plot is the same except the cat is replaced by the girl.

I don't find any of the sequels necessary, so to me the first movie is fine. No more needs to be told.
Cameron could have remade the Green Slime and had the same action elements.
And there are many ways to depict a military team--they didn't have to go the goofy caricature route. I doubt Ridley Scott would have depicted them that way.

The franchise will always involve aliens eliminating people. The difference lies in the manner by which it is depicted, and in that respect the two movies are far apart. Even the third and fourth movies aren't the same as the first two, as the third uses the equivalent of a procedural and the fourth political intrigue.

The sequels are necessary because they wanted to complete Ripley's story, and they did. The problem is that the producers wanted to squeeze out more from the franchise, which is why they made the fourth movie. Besides, the other story, about W-Y and the alien, was not yet finished.

There was no "goofy caricature" in the movie, as that would involve coming up with something like McHale's Navy. The grunts depicted in this film act and behave in the same way as soldiers in Full Metal Jacket and even Apocalypse Now. And if they were transported to the past, they would behave in a way that Scott himself would depict them in Napoleon.
 
I think treating Weyland Yutani as a single homogeneous entity is wrong.
Each division will have it's own secrets and maybe no-one in the main company knows them all. Even within a division there will be secrets and subsections close holed from each other..
I can see it being common place for one section, or even just one person high enough up in a section to try a little off-the-official-books "research", if they thing there is a big enough upside.
I work in the same building, on the same floor, with people I see every day.
Some of these people are my friends but I have no idea what projects they are on, because I don't need to know.
I might guess at the field because I know their specialisms.
As for the other end of the Campus... No idea at all [until the press release comes out].
 
You sound like a real expert in 22nd century law. Congratulations on your scholarship.

BTW, what country is this happening in?

That escalated very predictably quickly!

On the other hand, it seems pretty obvious to me that neither film is intended to be analysed like this, nor to be part of a modern-type franchise "world". One is a horror film, the other an action film. You are not meant to analyse them closely; you're meant to be scared/thrilled. Mentions of "the company" in Alien probably nod to 1970s concerns about dodgy corporations as much as coherent world-building. They were both made before the internet, before most big franchises got going and before people looked for connected "worlds". In short, it doesn't matter and it doesn't make either film worse.

And really, if you want to pick holes in them, there are some great big holes. Why doesn't Ash have red-tinted blood, given the likelihood of a small cut on board an industrial space ship? How does the Alien grow so quickly? Why is a creature from deep space perfectly adapted to breed with humans? The answer is basically "because it makes the films better".
 
I completely agree. It's always strange seeing people complain that putting whatever into the new Star Wars spin off has destroyed their childhood, as for years I've followed a franchise with two good films and about thirty ropey ones. To my mind, the good stuff is Alien, Aliens, the Aliens Technical Manual, the three computer games AvP 2000, Alien: Isolation and Aliens: Fireteam (the last two of which contain better writing than most of the films), some art/making of books, and the new roleplaying game. Not an amazing success rate.
 
Last edited:
These were covered in one or more of the Dark Horse Comics [I forget which ones].
How does the Alien grow so quickly?
The first gen Xenomorph, that we see in Alien, is basically a high discharge rate battery with teeth and claws.
It is designed to grow incredible fast and make room for the 2nd gen Xenos [which would probably include an egg laying queen].
This also explains why it moves so slow at the end of the film. It's battery has gone flat.
It was not designed to last, just make a place for more Xenos.
How the 2nd gen Xenos were slightly different, was because there is a pheromone that controls their metabolism [that came from the Queen, if I remember the comic correctly].
Why is a creature from deep space perfectly adapted to breed with humans?
It has multi stranded DNA sequences that can adapt and merge with almost every life form. The explains the dog Xeno in Alien3.
Given the chance there are probably Xenomorph jellyfish somewhere out there...
 
I'm sure that makes sense as an explanation, but my point is that, in film terms, it doesn't matter. It's an alien, it's from some Lovecraftian place where the laws of nature are different, and it just does weird alien stuff. I suspect the comics are from the just-pre-internet time when people were starting to expect every detail of a franchise to link up. (Incidentally, a lot of the canonical Alien world was created in magazine articles by an English guy called Lee Brimmicombe-Wood and collected in the Aliens Technical Manual. It seems pretty haphazard).
 
I think treating Weyland Yutani as a single homogeneous entity is wrong.
Each division will have it's own secrets and maybe no-one in the main company knows them all. Even within a division there will be secrets and subsections close holed from each other..
I can see it being common place for one section, or even just one person high enough up in a section to try a little off-the-official-books "research", if they thing there is a big enough upside.
I work in the same building, on the same floor, with people I see every day.
Some of these people are my friends but I have no idea what projects they are on, because I don't need to know.
I might guess at the field because I know their specialisms.
As for the other end of the Campus... No idea at all [until the press release comes out].

I think each division needs the others. That's why Burke, who heads the Special Services Division (according to the business card which he gives to Ripley), says that the smuggled facehuggers would be used by the bio-weapons division. Any tech from the derelict ship would be sent to Reverse-Engineering, and then passed on to Manufacturing. Any materials needed by Manufacturing would come from Mining, which in turn would need Terraforming to make the atmosphere breathable and prepare areas for mining operations.

Meanwhile, such operations would involve surveyors, geologists, scientists, engineers, blue-collar workers, security, and their dependents, which means W-Y would also have to work with ECA, the government org tasked with regulating colonies, and the company itself would have to be regulated in turn by the ICC, which handles anything involving commerce and trade (which includes countering smuggling of dangerous organisms). Enforcement of those regulations would involve, among other things, the Colonial Marines, which is also part of the government.

W-Y would also be working with others, such as companies that build and operate space stations and that manufacture synths, not to mention privately owned craft doing things like salvage operations (like the one that found Ripley's lifeboat).

Very likely the rank-and-file wouldn't know what the others are doing, but those higher up, like junior execs such as Burke who head shady divisions tasked to do illegal things like smuggling dangerous organisms (and who is able to order people from other divisions around, like the colony manager, and even order personnel like Bishop, who works for the military because he's tasked to operate vehicles like APCs and the ECA, following production notes, I think), would know a lot more. They were probably even the same inner circles that came up with special orders for Ash to acquire alien organisms alive and intact, and even if it meant making company personnel expendable.

Finally, in his audio commentary to the movie, Cameron pointed out that he wrote the story with the intent of showing companies as evil, and for his references, mention the U.S. military industrial complex and the Vietnam War, the East India Company and colonization of India, and the Bhopal disaster, which symbolizes rich, multinational companies exploiting cheap labor and lack of environmental regulations in poor countries.
 
That escalated very predictably quickly!

On the other hand, it seems pretty obvious to me that neither film is intended to be analysed like this, nor to be part of a modern-type franchise "world". One is a horror film, the other an action film. You are not meant to analyse them closely; you're meant to be scared/thrilled. Mentions of "the company" in Alien probably nod to 1970s concerns about dodgy corporations as much as coherent world-building. They were both made before the internet, before most big franchises got going and before people looked for connected "worlds". In short, it doesn't matter and it doesn't make either film worse.

And really, if you want to pick holes in them, there are some great big holes. Why doesn't Ash have red-tinted blood, given the likelihood of a small cut on board an industrial space ship? How does the Alien grow so quickly? Why is a creature from deep space perfectly adapted to breed with humans? The answer is basically "because it makes the films better".

Check out Cameron's (who wrote and directed the film) audio commentary. He made his intentions painfully clear not only about "evil" corporations but even Western countries in light of imperialism and colonialism, and there are more than enough scenes from the movie to show them.

It's also more than obvious in the first movie: space truckers rendered expendable by the company to obtain dangerous organisms for its bio-weapons division, and said aloud by Ripley. It doesn't get more obvious than that.

Finally, that's a good point about having red-tinted blood. About the alien growing quickly, I think there are explanations in the Alien: Colonial Marines Manual, which was licensed by the IP holders. I'm not sure if they breed with humans or need to do so.
 
James Cameron is a multimillionaire

I think he was referring to corporations with weapons divisions and that operate oil rigs, have mining interests, etc., in countries with lots of natural resources.
 
It's sometimes easy to look into the aspects of something too deeply. Alien was a horror movie, with the 'creature/psycho killer' being in this case from another planet, the 'confined space' being a spaceship and the vulnerable victims its crew rather than hapless teenagers. Cue lots of dark recesses and gruesome deaths. Ash and W-Y are the devices used to create a twist before the ending.

Aliens is a war movie, heavily influenced by the Vietnam war. Cue heavily armoured and weaponed, over-confident troops being sent into a war zone for which they are unprepared. Cue lots of bulging muscles, huge guns (their ship itself is even gun-shaped) and bullets flying, with their oppnents 'coming out of the walls' and outflanking them. Bishop is the device used here to create the double twist.
 
It's sometimes easy to look into the aspects of something too deeply. Alien was a horror movie, with the 'creature/psycho killer' being in this case from another planet, the 'confined space' being a spaceship and the vulnerable victims its crew rather than hapless teenagers. Cue lots of dark recesses and gruesome deaths. Ash and W-Y are the devices used to create a twist before the ending.
Id read the Alan Dean Foster Novelization and knew what was coming but it kept me on the edge of my seat. The look od film H R Geiger's designs of the derelict exterior and interior with the Space Jocky, and the Alien creature unlike any thing seen before.:cool:



Aliens is a war movie, heavily influenced by the Vietnam war. Cue heavily armoured and weaponed, over-confident troops being sent into a war zone for which they are unprepared. Cue lots of bulging muscles, huge guns (their ship itself is even gun-shaped) and bullets flying, with their oppnents 'coming out of the walls' and outflanking them. Bishop is the device used here to create the double twist.
A great high octane science fiction film was exciting from the get go.:cool:
 
Game over, man.

As for Ridley Scott and military matters... his Napoleon film was as goofy a caricature as anything. And not in a funny or good way.
 

Similar threads


Back
Top