Niven, Larry: Man-Kzin Wars

[Dave]

I've just heard that the nineth book in this series will be published in December 2001.

Just like the previous eight books it is a collection of short stories by different writers, some new, some famous; all set in Larry Nivens' known space universe during the period of the Man-Kzin Wars.

These are a series of interstella conflicts, including four wars and many major incidents, spanning 300 years from the mid-24th to the mid-27th centuries. With the help of Puppeteer intervention, all wars were won by humans.

 

[Dave]

Man-Kzin Wars IX is out in hardback only.

4 stories:

Poul Anderson -- Pele

Hal Colebatch -- His Sergeant's Hour

Paul Chafe -- Windows of the Soul

Larry Niven -- Fly-By-Night

there is a review of the book here:

www.larryniven.org

 

[Thrint]

Help! One of the books has a story wherein a pack of Kzin hunt a man and a woman for sport and toy with them before the kill. The woman reacts with rage and the man with resignation. What is the name of the story Thanks.

 

[Dave]

I don't recognise it from that description. I have them all, and I just had a quick scan through them, though I need to re-read them sometime. It could be from Volume 11 which has yet to be published, or it could be a small part of one of the stories set on Wunderland and I just don't remember it. Sorry!

There are some reviews here if that helps: Reviews: Man Kzin War Series

 

[Thrint]

Dave,

Thanks for the link - 'tho I've already consulted that page. Sometimes I wonder if I'm imagining this, but I "remember" part of the story very clearly...

 

[zedlav]

I'm sorry to reanimate a thread as old as this (still on the first page, though), but I've just finished Ringworld and The Ringworld Engineers and was looking for more set in the Known Space universe.

I usually do not enjoy military sci-fi and generally avoid it, but, seeing that Man-Kzin Wars use the same universe as Ringworld does and that Niven probably has had something or other to say about the stories included in the compilations, I do hope it's good.

So, how is the series? Would somebody who doesn't like military science fiction be able to enjoy it for the setting, etc? Are the stories well written and cohesive, etc?

 

[Dave]

So, how is the series? Would somebody who doesn't like military science fiction be able to enjoy it for the setting, etc? Are the stories well written and cohesive, etc?

There are a wide variety of stories in different styles, by different authors. Some are very good, some not so good. Some have sequels, some are stand alone. Some are set firmly and cohesively within the 'Known Space' internal consistency, some are contradictory. One story, 'The Captain's Tiger' even places a Kzin on Earth in 19th Century India, but is one of the best.

I would only class a few as 'Military Science Fiction'. You need to remember that through autodoc drugs and selective breeding Humans were pacifists until after they met the Kzin. Some do deal with the distances and relativistic effects invoved in such a Galactic war. Some are shipboard stories, but most are not.

They are not just about the ARM vs the Kzin, there are all kinds of other stories. Many are set on Wunderland during the occupation, so there are resistance stories and stories about collaboration with the enemy. Some are written from the point of view of the Kzin. Some are set on other Kzin conquered worlds. If you like the Kzin as an alien race, there is much more about their society and its structure, their history, heritage and culture.

 

[BigBadBob141]

Man-Kzin Wars still going strong in 2014, have just got volume XIV (14), all the short stories in it very good.

 

[Kzinti]

I've yet to read most of Man-Kzin, but I'm trying to find olut how the Kzin evolved to look like humans. This would be virtually impossible unless there was a common ancestor.

 

[chrispenycate]

There's a picture somewhere in my bookshelves of the skeletal structure of a kzin, and it's definitely not descended from any land living Earth species. On the other hand, the fact they can eat us (excuse me, you can eat us) and gain nourishment suggests a common protozoan ancestor, but that could well be back in thrint times.

 

[Kzinti]

There's a picture somewhere in my bookshelves of the skeletal structure of a kzin, and it's definitely not descended from any land living Earth species. On the other hand, the fact they can eat us (excuse me, you can eat us) and gain nourishment suggests a common protozoan ancestor, but that could well be back in thrint times.

Nay, I have to disagree. The fact that they walk on two legs, have two arms and a head indicates simian genes. Even their females look similar to human females with their widened hips and slim waists. Gorillas are Earth creatures and their females look nothing like that.

 

[chrispenycate]

In - Ringworld, I think it must be, Speaker informs Louis, when the latter tries to persuade him to climb across a vehicle, "my ancestors were plains cats". But if you look at the skeleton below… Nothing descended from an Earth fish has a ribcage like that.

http://www.sloan3d.com/covers/kzin.jpg and his http://www.sloan3d.com/covers/kzinskel.jpg

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I've yet to read most of Man-Kzin, but I'm trying to find olut how the Kzin evolved to look like humans. This would be virtually impossible unless there was a common ancestor.

No.
Look at Australia how many Marsupial based creatures fill mammal niches and look like mammals.

Panda not a bear. Closer to a Raccoon. (Actually Panda seems like an evolutionary failure )

But perhaps organic life follows certain rules. So Animals with NO connection at all but fitting similar ecological niche will look similar (there are many such examples of Animals and Plants that by Lineaus are similar or different but by DNA the reverse is true).

Also if Organic life follows certain rules, the local equivalent some plants will be poisonous and the local unrelated equivalent of others nutritious. Very few if any animals are poisonous and a minority of Plants and Fungi are poisonous. The likely toxins can be tested for.

We know nothing yet about life on other worlds. But carbohydrate / sugars, fats, proteins may be inherently mostly similar and digestible. Amino Acids and Vitamins may exist and be incompatible, but probably mostly not poisonous.

So I have no difficulty with SF where species of animals, fish, plants etc can be digested by creatures from different planets. Or where a two legged humanoid sentient tool user turns out to be closer to a lizard, monotreme, dinosaur, Marsupial or cephalopod than a Mammal.

Maybe some day we will know, but I can't see it breaking any definite known law what ever some people might suspect. We can't even prove all species here have a common ancestral protozoa. It's just something that would be "convenient".

I liked where in Babylon 5 it's stated the Species that looks superficially most human is reality one of the least like us. Why not?

I've read all the Ringworld books and a couple of other "known space" I must blag more.

 

[Bick]

Its an interesting question as to whether something alien would be (a) nutritious or (b) poisonous. To be nutritious, it must be made up of the same basic building blocks, i.e. amino acids, sugars etc. To be poisonous something has to potently interact with specific proteins in the body and (by evolutionary 'design') shut that system down. Thus, the poison arrow frog has evolved to express tubocurarine in its skin, which potently blocks nicotinic acetylcholine receptors. It could only evolve this mechanism because the nicotinic acetylcholine receptor (a complex protein) is well conserved across frog-predator species that co-evolved with it. All known biological poisons act in a specific way by evolution to block a critical functional protein/enzyme.

Thus, to be nutritious, an alien bit of meat would simply have to be made up of the correctly orientated amino acids. To be poisonous, the alien from which you got the meat would (almost certainly) have to have evolved alongside the other alien... which means it wouldn't then be alien!

In short - its not such a stretch to imagine the Kzin could eat humans, but its extremely unlikely that if any alien did eat us the human meat would be poisonous.

 

[Kzinti]

In - Ringworld, I think it must be, Speaker informs Louis, when the latter tries to persuade him to climb across a vehicle, "my ancestors were plains cats". But if you look at the skeleton below… Nothing descended from an Earth fish has a ribcage like that.

http://www.sloan3d.com/covers/kzin.jpg and his http://www.sloan3d.com/covers/kzinskel.jpg

Right, but is that skeleton canon, or just fanart?

Also, if they did evolve from plains cats, how would plains cats appear on two completely different worlds?

 

[Bick]

Also, if they did evolve from plains cats, how would plains cats appear on two completely different worlds?

Good point!

 

[Kzinti]

Good point!

I should also add that convergent evolution doesn't work as well as Star Trek would have you believe. The probability of an alien being bipedal with two arms and a head is extremely low.

 

[Ray McCarthy]

I'd love a larger sample size than we have to extrapolate.

But I don't use Star Trek as a guide to anything except Star Trek. It's all Technobabble anyway.

 

[Kzinti]

I'd love a larger sample size than we have to extrapolate.

But I don't use Star Trek as a guide to anything except Star Trek. It's all Technobabble anyway.

No, Star Wars was nonsense. TRek had some real science.

Ringworld was great, but the only thing that bothered me was the fact that the Kzinti's origins were never really defined. I have to assume that the Pak put plains cats on Earth and Kzinworld.