Direction of travel through the wormhole

[PTeppic]

Although I don't know how the wormhole even allows one-direction only travel :iiworry: except as a major plot point, has anyone considered HOW it can still allow radio and gravity waves to come through in the opposite direction? :eek7:

 

[muzungu]

Maybe one of the properties of the wormhole is to allow massless particles, such as photons or gravitons, to travel in both directions through its event horion.

 

[PTeppic]

Pretty much any physics associated with the wormholes are advanced and theoretical, so I suppose anything is possible... :freak4:

 

[Koala]

Wormholes as used in the series allow bi-directional travel. In the first episode the gate didn't close and re-open. After they came thru to the gateroom they took Carol and then exited through the gate.

Perhaps Carter's explanation of gate travel as being through a wormhole is just the closest analogy she can come up with. Also, if the gates use an artificially induced wormhole with 2 ends of the same size perhaps the wormhole isn't really a wormhole but only allows travel in a similar theorized manner. Using an analogy that might make it easier to understand, ice in nature rarely (ever?) forms as a cube but by placing the water in an ice cube tray we can control the shaping to be that of a cube. The gates must further adapt the wormhole (if that's what it is) in a similar fashion.

 

[PTeppic]

I think I am disagreeing on this one :freak4:

I am pretty convinced that during that first attack the wormhole DOES disengage after Apophis and co appear. And that he uses his wrist device to dial it up again, though we don't see it.

 

[Koala]

I'll watch it again, but I seem to remember that in every scene where the gate is visible it's always engaged. The scen lasts around 3 to 5 minutes and except when showing fire from the SGC guards I remember it as always open. Nice thing about having just bought the DVDs is that I watched that episode a day or 2 before my post.

 

[PTeppic]

Yeah - ditto!

Okay - its dawn then, tomorrow.
Your choice of weapons: DVD or video.
My second will call upon your second.

 

[PTeppic]

Have at you knave :freak4: - take this:

UK Region 2 DVD.

Gate opens
Scan-ball drops through
Sgt. is scanned/picks it up
Teal'c appears and grabs her
6 Jaffa come through and conveniently form a photogenic corridor
Apophis comes through in full gold-effect armour

3min10secs on DVD clock
Camera shot pans round to show up the line of Jaffa to Apophis in the centre of the gate - which disengages...

[Teal'c is to Apophis's right, behind the back right Jaffa as you look, with the struggling Sgt.]

 

[PTeppic]

Same Region 2 DVD:

At around 4min20secs on clock:

We see the gate, still disegaged, with the USAF guards lying dead. Alarms are sounding. Apophis orders "Tyger. A-lada spryng.", looking at the gate.

We then see troops running around the base, with doors shutting. It is assumed the gate-room doors stay sealed???

But, by the time we get back to the gate-room at 4:36, the gate is engaged and all but two surviving Jaffa (inc. Teal'c), Apophis and the Sgt. have gone through.

Puzzling.

 

[Koala]

You want puzzling?

1. How about in Brief Candle after ONeil (very old) is talking to SGC one a viedo phone? The scene starts behind him looking through a disengaged gate (you can tell because as it pans you see a curved section of the gate got from left to right). There's a malp in the room, but the gate isn't active. How does the videophone transmit and receive? Why is there no delay between Jack's comments adn those from the other side? (Unless it takes longer for a person to go thru than a vid pphone signal.)

2. Before they pull down Phelops' statue we see the gate from above. The platform is (supposedly) rock or something. If you follow the steps up and look at the "platform" which is analogous to the ramp leading to the gate in the gate room, you'll see that the bottom section of the gate is inside the rock (on all sides). Shouldn't this cause a problem in establishing the integrity of the even horizon? Why doesn't the "rock" get blasted out when the EH establishes? Apparently a partially blocked gate doesn't stop it from working.

 

[PTeppic]

Speed of radio transmissions:

Good point - it applies to all cases where the radio is used interactively through the gate, or even just controlling the MALP, e.g. Urgo, Into the Fire etc. etc.

My suggestion: it comes down to wave/particle distinctions. If the item in the gate for travel is a solid body, it needs molecular level disintegration, a relatively slow transmission, before molecular reintegration (presuming there is no iris :freak4. If the "traveller" is just a wave, such as radio comms, the traveller detection radar or MALP 2-way control, then it can travel AS a wave, at the speed of light up and down wormhole, and hence is also HOW it can travel in both directions???

 

[Koala]

Those are basically my thoughts. A "sending" gate would know what "frequencies" it was sending, and would be able to sense incoming frquencies coming in using something as simple as an advanced hi-speed scanner. I would also think that there could be some tachyon enhancement of the patters/waves being sent.

 

[PTeppic]

Of course, any civilisation that can build a device that can establish stable worm-holes for survivable, unprotected transport between two "stations" which are each potentially moving at different rates through all four dimensions, can do pretty much what it wants with the detection system?

 

[MICSG7]

I believe anything can travel the 'wrong way' through a wormhole but it must rely on its own power to get through. Waves and radiation have very high energy so they have sufficient power to make it through. That means if Jack just put his gun through the event horizon all the way and let go, he can reach back in and grab it because it didn't go far. This is not a good idea for humans unless you have a very powerful jetpack because they have nothing to push or pull on. If the gate deactivates while something is still in there, the same thing will happen as with the HU2340 or MacClarium in the episode Red Sky.

 

[shu_hunter]

i think it's in s1 "the enemy within" that daniel referes the one-way travel trough a wormhole as positive-to-negative and then carter says basically and then gives a big complicated answer. but it makes sense: a outgoing "positive" gate sends the energized matter stream (i'm pretty sure that's a quote from the show) to the "negative" recieving gate. but radio waves and.. is there anything else?.. can travel both ways because...... they dont rely on the matter stream!
or something like that.

~Shu Hunter
:upto: stargate fan{atic}

 

[MICSG7]

The matter stream is the particals of the object being sent through the gate. I think you're using the fifth dimension with the stargate so you need extra energy that humans don't have on their own to do it. The gate might work like a circuit which flows from negative to positive.

 

[Roach]

If you view the wormhole as a river with a very strong current, you can see why things can't go in reverse. You get dragged in one direction, and it's almost impossible to "swim" against the current. When the gate is open, it sucks, or pushes, or in any case draws anything that goes into it in one direction. Anything that tried to go in the wrong direction immediately gets stopped.

I'm not sure how radio waves etc fit into that, but I personally I think it's just a case of matter vs energy. But the idea of them not actually using the matter stream is good. The idea that they operate under their own power makes a bit of sense; the energy moves so fast, that it can go against the current.

 

[MICSG7]

But when you go backwards, you don't get converted to energy to send through the circuit.

 

[PTeppic]

Roach - this could imply that a body given sufficient energy before entering the destination gate COULD be sent back through

MICSG7 - we have never really seen much about reverse attempts at travel. Except perhaps "A Hundred Days" and so on - it is implied things just disappear... or could be demolecularised in line with the above theory, since they are not energetic enough.

 

[MICSG7]

The malp was probably in subspace and then it broke up into molecules like the HU2340 or Maclarium when they shut the gate down early.