Thoughts on the upcoming "ascension" (SPOILERS)

[nic]

Hey guys!
Looking forward to "ascension"? I am!
Sam's my fav character and I've been waiting for the writers to do something with her outside the SGC.
Plus she gets a love interest too (Yound IndianaJone stars: Sean Patrick Flannery - lucky girl! :blush

Now, from what I've read, he's an alien that takes human form and follows her back through the stargate. Also, nobody believes he exists and everyone thinks she's going a little loopy, telling her to "relax" and "take it easy".

You can tell it's going to be a fun episode!

I don't know if the writers were planning on continuing the romance, but my bet is he'll be sent back through the Stargate at the end, so I was wondering how far their relationship would go?

I've noticed (as probably everyone has) that TV and Film have gender rules when it comes to the characters having romantic relationships. For guys, it's a lot more easier to have them "jump in the sack" (although I don't think Stargate encourages this) compared to female characters.
The reason for why female characters such as Sam (and X-files: Dana Scully, and once Captain Janeway) have never been allow to have "intimate" relations, is because the writers are scared of having they labelled as simply "sex objects".
I understand this. The audience has to come to respect a character for her brains not just her beauty, but then it makes it hard for them to write romantic relationships without sort of "cheapening" the character.
Therefore female characters take longer to develope relationships because they need to have a well established trust/friendship with the love interest before hand.
This can be a lot of stuff to cram into one episode! That's why I appreciated Jack's relationship in "100days" because the episode had a time span of 3months.

That's just female characters in general, from my own opinion and what I've learn through 3 years (3 long years!) of film theory.

When it comes to Sam as an individual character, she seems to restrain her emotions - due to her military background.
It took a whole episode (enigma) before she kissed Narim - and that only came about through his desire to see her. (But I could probably go on about that relationship for ages!)
However, that relationship all happened under the roof (or mountain ) of the SGC. Who knows how she'll be at home when she doesn't have the rules and regulations of the SCG hanging over her?

This is only some of my ramblings, I'd be interested to know what you guys all think?


Nicola

 

[skydiver]

personally i can not wait until it airs.

i thought of other complications to sam in specifics adn other female characters in general. as soon as they get married...chances are kids soon follow. that simple fact would take sam out of active duty for at least a year... look at voyager, what if janeway had got pregnant? theoretically there would be times when she wasn't available, or unable to perform her job.
that's a concern for females in non-traditional roles.

i also see for sam, well there's the jonus fiasco, and wonder if anyone tried 'i'm gonna date the general's daughter' play...those would make her very leery...

and, let's say kynthia was a guy adn sam ate the cake & aged...chances are she woulda been labeled u nfavorable.
AT has said as much that while it's ok for the guys to have girlfriends, sam really has to be careful or she'll be labeled , i htink the phrase was 'space slut'

all these things would make sam a lot more leery than the guys.

course you are right, who knows what side she keeps at home?

 

[nic]

Originally posted by skydiver
i htink the phrase was 'space slut'

Yeh, that's the phrase (I just wasn't sure if it was a tad too strong for this forum )Your totally right about the whole area of female characters having having children.It would be a major change in the characters life since the kid would ultimately have to become the character's top priority.

Ever noticed in film, that women who "stray" from the "girl nextdoor" guidelines are in one way or another punished for it?
This is based alot more in the "Film Noir" genre, but when looking at more modern day films (50 years later), it's still there. Even in Brid.JonesDiary, she chose HughGrant, slept with him, then had to take the heartache and rejection when she discovers he's cheating. (That was her punishment, although she discovered true love in the end :blush: )

Do any of you guys watch AllyMcBeal?
I used to a long time ago - around the 1st-2nd series.
I think it was a female identity thing: "There's this young (and slighty mental ) woman out there in the big scarey world, trying to make something of her life".
Cool I thought. However it took me ages to realise that the show was not so much about her independance, but the fact that she was lonely and needed a man.
Now, there's nothing wrong with wanting love (we all deserve it), but that was all she ever seemed to moan about!
I still wasn't bothered by this. What bothered me, was that before long she seemed to get a new boyfriend every 2weeks or so.
I think the character (to me) started to lose what at the start had made her such a strong female. Her independance.

Samantha Carter on the other hand (to me) is still an excelent female role model 4 years down the line.
She has the brains (and the looks to go with it), but she doesn't need to parade around in short skirts to get any attention (although I'm sure many male viewer would love to see her in a tight skirt ).
She's a strong woman, with good morals and not affraid to speak her mind, but the character is able to show a caring and perhaps vulnerable side at times (especially went it comes to her friends and father Jacob).

I don't think a romantic relationship would damage the character of Samantha, mainly because I feel confident that that the scenes we see would have been written,directed,and edited in the most tasteful way possible.
As for the character Sam, she's certainly not a "kiss and tell" kind of girl. Which personally IMHO, shows a great deal about how a person values trust/respect/maturity not only as a female, but as a male too.


Nicola x x
(Jesus, I can't believe it! I've actually for the first time EVER wrote 2 serious posts! Maybe I do have a serious side? )

 

[Texane]

I can't really claim credit for watching Ally that first season - I watched it because the original clips showed what a woman was really thinking, in the middle of an office, when you are expected to be politically correct in your navy suit - how I loved that first season! (but no more)

As for Sam's character, well, I'm just going to sit back, watch, and enjoy.

 

[nic]

Originally posted by Texane
As for Sam's character, well, I'm just going to sit back, watch, and enjoy.

Yeh. I think she's going to have a good season, I can feel it in my water.... is that a little too much info?

 

[skydiver]

scuttlebutt i've heard is that season 5 will focus a bit more on sam & danny since rda is taking a little time off and cj is doing some side things so..regardless it's gonna be a goody adn i can't wait...15 days to go!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Sam O'Neill]

WHAT ABOUT JACK???????

Eventhough i am REALLY excited for Sam for finnaly being able to show her emotions but WHAT ABOUT JACK ???Everyone has to admit that there has always been a spark between Sam and Jack from th pilot but now she has a new romance and leaves Jack out!! How do you think he'll feel??? i bet there will be some serious jealousy in nthat episode With me being in England ive got to wait for another month and a half!!!!!!!!im gonna go CRAZY :nuts: :nuts:

:hjbigeyes from Sam O'Neill :hjbigeyes

 

[Texane]

Jack? WHAT ABOUT TEAL'C?

you mean we won't see as much of CJ?

JSC!!! COFFEECUP!!! WHERE DO WE FILE OUR OBJECTIONS??? :angry:

 

[nic]

Re: WHAT ABOUT JACK???????

Originally posted by Sam O'Neill
Eventhough i am REALLY excited for Sam for finnaly being able to show her emotions but WHAT ABOUT JACK ???i bet there will be some serious jealousy in nthat episode

I know where you are coming from.
I read that the writer's (although bringing Jack n' Sams feelings out in season4) they didn't want it to be a big issue in the 5th series, so they were going to explore relationships with other characters.
Like SamO'Neill said, there's been a spark between them since the pilot, but maybe it's time to face the music. They know a relationship is impossible do to their working relationship - so perhaps it's time to move on.

Sam (IMO) has always seemed to be attracted to Jack (and who wouldn't:blush: ), but to me, it seems Jack has just recently come to terms with how he feels for Sam but he's unsure of the effect it will have on them.
Look at episodes such as "Divide and Conquer" and "Beneath the Surface": Both times Sam states that things should continue the way they always have, then Jack saying "are WE okay with that?" and Sam replies "Yes".
I think Sam's the one in control over the Jack/Sam relationship.

Just one other thought.
If Sam was in "love" with Jack, I doubt she'd have a romance with anybody else.

As for Jack? I think he'll be hurt/jealous, but if the writers are trying to avoid the whole "JAck n' Sam" thing, I wonder it Jack will be written in this way?

 

[Texane]

I don't think the writers will completely give up on a story line that clearly interests so many viewers.

 

[skydiver]

as to rda & cj...i've heard that rda is taking a couple of weeks off to go to europe, so there'll likely be an eps like the light where he's in it just not a lot...same with cj...

as to the sam & jack, sam is defintely in charge of how far & how fast ti goes. in BTS it was her 'sir' that told him whatever happened on the planet stayed on the planet, same iwth in d&c with 'it never has to leave the room'

now you can also argue in d&c at least that she KNOWS how jack feels but may not reciprocate(let's not argue about it..but we never hear what she said so it IS possible that she doesn't totally feel the same way)

but, assuming the feeling is mutual...she has far more to lose than he does.
1) he's a man...and as unfair as it is, he'll catch less flack than she will as long as he wasn't 'forcing' her into anything

2) he's possibly still married...they never have said in canon that he & sara are divorced...and adultry is a court-martialable offense.

3) he's pretty much at the top of his career...there's a slim chance he might get general some day...but considering his age and his record(which in learning curve hammy implied while he's certianly a good soldier he's made more than a few enemies in the past that might hinder his career) it isn't totally possible.
sam on the other hand has 10-30 years left in her career and at elast two more promotions...but if she's linked to a scandal...she's a major til she dies...

there fore my opinion is jack is just waiting for her to say 'come hither darling' before he'll do anything. and she isn't ready to do that...

i think her bit in ascension is a DLI (disposable love interest) just like kynthia or laira...and who'll likely leave at the end of the eps...


there is also a comment rda made in a chat of his that they 'were cooling the ship a bit until they find out if there's to be a season 6' or something very much like that.

this suggests to me that they will eventually get together but they want to take it slow so it's believable that they do in the end but they aren't rushing towards it or dragging it out for months & months....


all totally my opinion

 

[nic]

Originally posted by skydiver
all totally my opinion

Which I totally share with!
I never really thought of what the results would be if they got together.

 

[pamie]

Originally posted by nic

Just one other thought.
If Sam was in "love" with Jack, I doubt she'd have a romance with anybody else.

I agree with skydiver its clear that there is some spark between Sam and Jack but I'm not so sure that she does feel the same for Jack.
On 100 days Sam said to Janet that she did miss Jack but that was all she said!
I think that Sam is a very strong woman and that maybe she does not need a man in her life at the moment.
I think she is fine the way she is.
Sam is a great role model for all women out there!!

Pam

 

[nic]

Originally posted by pamie
Sam is a great role model for all women out there!!
Pam

You got that right Pam! I've just wrote a letter off to Amanda, telling her her that... although I'm pretty sure she already knows it.
Sam's certain an inspiration to me.

 

[Texane]

"I agree with skydiver its clear that there is some spark between Sam and Jack but I'm not so sure that she does feel the same for Jack."

I don't know if I agree with the last part of this - maybe she's a career woman with a brain in her head - dating at the office is political suicide pretty much anywhere; keeping your personal life to yourself is just good business.


"Sam is a great role model for all women out there!!"

Thanks to the writers for showing their . . . guts in writing a strong female character who is not a . . . who is likeable. Nice job.

 

[pamie]

Originally posted by Texane

I don't know if I agree with the last part of this - maybe she's a career woman with a brain in her head - dating at the office is political suicide pretty much anywhere; keeping your personal life to yourself is just good business.

That is so true...

just thinking out loud when I said about her maybe not feeling the same for Jack as she has never made it really clear if she does or not.

Pam

 

[skydiver]

to me, i think the writers of the show have never committed to just what her feelings are for a reason.
it gives them an out.
i have no doubt that she respects him greatly, and likely sees him as a bit of a role model.
and she knows his feelings, maybe even suspected them before d&c...she also knows that whatever his feelings are, he respects her...his 'the malp is worthless..you i trust' says it all

she is also a woman in a male dominated field...not an easy job to have(i've been there...they either want to patronize you or don't quite know what to make of you...)
also growing up the daughter of a career officer, i'll bet she was held to a higher standard, if not by her superiors than by jacob.

also, in the military, a profession which often requires mates to be separated for months at a time, there is usually a respect for marriage...remember the scandals of a few years ago? adultry is almost as bad a crime as treason.
she would be seen by several of the wives as 'competition' whether she was or not so she would likely go out of her way to NOT act like a girl but try to be jsut one of the guys

because of that she would be used to NOT even thinking of a relationship with anyone she works with...

add to that Jonus adn the simple fact that intelligent women scare the pants off guys....i'll bet she had a hard time finding a guy that she doesn't scare off. and after a few bad dates, i'll bet she doesn't worry about it anymore.

to my way of thinking, she's willing to wait and see if whatever that spark is is real before risking everything.

 

[nic]

Our Sammy certainly has her head screwed on the right way.
She understands and respects the limits that come with her job.

In saying that, it brings me back to my speculations around "acension".
She knows how to conduct herself around new aliens she meets, so getting romantically involved with one seems a little odd.... unless she doesn't know he's an alien.

In saying *that* now, she get to do a little :kisses: :kisses: with Narim.
I thought the SGC would frown upon romatic relations with humans/aliens from other world, but I remember (Presense?) When we meet Narim again, Sam explains that the chances of them (at that moment) having a relationship were slim because her head/emotions were messed up - due to the imprint Jolinars memories where having on her mind.
Part of me is inclined to think Sam kissed Narim in "Enigma" in a *in the moment* thing. I don't think she intended ever seeing him gain.

I'm just thinking out loud here, I don't tend to think everything through

 

[pamie]

Originally posted by nic

In saying *that* now, she get to do a little :kisses: :kisses: with Narim.
I thought the SGC would frown upon romatic relations with humans/aliens from other world, but I remember (Presense?) When we meet Narim again, Sam explains that the chances of them (at that moment) having a relationship were slim because her head/emotions were messed up - due to the imprint Jolinars memories where having on her mind.
Part of me is inclined to think Sam kissed Narim in "Enigma" in a *in the moment* thing. I don't think she intended ever seeing him gain.

I'm just thinking out loud here, I don't tend to think everything through

No I totally agree with you there nic I think she also kissed Narim coz it was a moment thing also maybe because he was very intelligent and all that....

I also agree with all that skydiver has said and think that Sam is a very professional woman (and good on her)

I mean lets face it she don't need a man she's too busy with her own life

So they are just my views

Pam

 

[skydiver]

ole smarmy narim was very much a DLI (disposable love interest)

i have the idea she has no idea this alien is an alien when she falls for him....and heck the woman hasn't had 'friendly relations' for 4 years...it's about time