How do you think that it would have affected the series if the SG-1 team was Army or Marine sponsored instead of Air Force? I think Daniel would have had a more "interesting" time dealing with a no-nonsense Marine team than a (relatively) laid-back Air Force unit. Or even an Army Special Forces/Ranger team - they probably would have been tactically more proficient , and a Special Forces A-team would seem to be tailor made for a SG-1 team. They would have a Medical specialist, Communications spec, Weapons spec, Demolition/Combat Engineering expert, and maybe one or two others. Logical, or am I way off in left field on this one?
Army/Marine SG-1?
- Thread starter Slater
- Start date
Rowan
Well-Known Member
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- Sep 26, 2000
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Okay... I'm looking at this through 'Real World' eyes, not SG-1.
In the 'RW', you'd have next to no civilians on the project and folks probably wouldn't be living off base. It's be like being stationed on a sub or ship underway. The military services could quite probably find enough of it's own specialists in the needed fields with a small backfill of civilians, who would, basically, sign their life away. And certainly *no* civillians would be department heads, like Daniel heading Arch. The service takes care of it's own.
Also Teal'c wouldn't be anywhere near a team. He would have been 'removed' from the site under close guard, and probably sedation, and is off being "studied" [or whatever polite euphamism we're currently using] for the rest of his 'what's left of it' life.
I shudder to think of the SGC being managed by either the USA or the USMC. Both have a different mission headset and not one I think would be as easily adaptable for the job.
Now... if you consider SG-1 as a first contact team, I'd lean toward SF long before Marines on this one, and not because of team distribution, but the SF leans much more into working with indiginant population that the Marines.
Marine command would basically be the SG-3 - Col. Makepeace situation: bust in, apply sufficent firepower to nuteralize the situation and then 'hook & book'. There is a time and a place for that, but like any other 'weapon', it has a selective use.
The "A" team concept lends itself to first contact well, but is strictly combat oriented so a lot of the 'hearts and minds', 'meaning of life stuff' would not much of a place. And as we've seen in some situation, that can be important. And remember, everyone on an 'A' team is cross trained in a secondary speciality: medic may be commo, etc.
Again, this is my own opinion so I'm sorry if I offerd, but: basically the Rangers are the Army's 'Marines'. They are trained to 'go in, subdue the location and hold it until giver further orders'.
Now, before folks get cranks at me and say a woman doesn't know what's she's talking about, here's some info.
I live 15 minutes down the road from Ft. Lewis, home of 3rd Batt, 75th Infantry [Rangers] and 1st Special Forces Group. Not counting MacChord Air Force Base. 40 minutes from Bangor Naval Submarine Base, 50 from the Bremerton Naval Shipyards and about an hour from 'Home Port Everett'. I grew up here.
I served 20+ years in the Army active and reserve and did my 'winter vacation' of 90-91 in the Gulf, up front, getting a Combat Medical Badge because of it. My husband was with the 1st/509th Airborne Infantry in Long Range Recon, the 82nd, took some time off and went back in with the 12th Special Forces Group. I 'speak' Spec Ops.
Now, I have always found it interesting that you see *no* Army or Navy staff around, but, from the show's perspective, it makes sense. To keep things accurate, that's a lot of advisors. And there ae things going on in 'SF, etc that really should be left quietly silent. Being able to focus on one branch of the service keeps it easier. ['KISS' = Keep It Simple Stupid]. In the 'RW', there are probably Army and Navu people around *if* they have a speciality the Air Force can't supply. I find that chance very minor.
And nobody want's to broaden the info chain on this by dragging another Joint Chief of Staff into this. My bet is the USMC JCoS sn't aware of what's going on, just that there are some of his folks 'attached' to a 'covert' USAF project.
So... real life military situations trying to be squeezed into a 44 minute SF TV program. That is a case of where 'RL' is too gritty, rough, tedious, messy, long in planning and a whole lot more to ever make it to the screen.
{My hero of the GulfWar was 4 star General 'Stormin' Norman' Schwarzkopf when he told the reporters during one of his daily breifings that he was *not* gonna tell them *anything* about tactics and troop deployment until after things had happened becasue he didn't want 'you bozos giving the enemy my troops lives' by broadcasting battle plans. He looked out for his own.
I'd follow that man into fire.
And I did.
In the 'RW', you'd have next to no civilians on the project and folks probably wouldn't be living off base. It's be like being stationed on a sub or ship underway. The military services could quite probably find enough of it's own specialists in the needed fields with a small backfill of civilians, who would, basically, sign their life away. And certainly *no* civillians would be department heads, like Daniel heading Arch. The service takes care of it's own.
Also Teal'c wouldn't be anywhere near a team. He would have been 'removed' from the site under close guard, and probably sedation, and is off being "studied" [or whatever polite euphamism we're currently using] for the rest of his 'what's left of it' life.
I shudder to think of the SGC being managed by either the USA or the USMC. Both have a different mission headset and not one I think would be as easily adaptable for the job.
Now... if you consider SG-1 as a first contact team, I'd lean toward SF long before Marines on this one, and not because of team distribution, but the SF leans much more into working with indiginant population that the Marines.
Marine command would basically be the SG-3 - Col. Makepeace situation: bust in, apply sufficent firepower to nuteralize the situation and then 'hook & book'. There is a time and a place for that, but like any other 'weapon', it has a selective use.
The "A" team concept lends itself to first contact well, but is strictly combat oriented so a lot of the 'hearts and minds', 'meaning of life stuff' would not much of a place. And as we've seen in some situation, that can be important. And remember, everyone on an 'A' team is cross trained in a secondary speciality: medic may be commo, etc.
Again, this is my own opinion so I'm sorry if I offerd, but: basically the Rangers are the Army's 'Marines'. They are trained to 'go in, subdue the location and hold it until giver further orders'.
Now, before folks get cranks at me and say a woman doesn't know what's she's talking about, here's some info.
I live 15 minutes down the road from Ft. Lewis, home of 3rd Batt, 75th Infantry [Rangers] and 1st Special Forces Group. Not counting MacChord Air Force Base. 40 minutes from Bangor Naval Submarine Base, 50 from the Bremerton Naval Shipyards and about an hour from 'Home Port Everett'. I grew up here.
I served 20+ years in the Army active and reserve and did my 'winter vacation' of 90-91 in the Gulf, up front, getting a Combat Medical Badge because of it. My husband was with the 1st/509th Airborne Infantry in Long Range Recon, the 82nd, took some time off and went back in with the 12th Special Forces Group. I 'speak' Spec Ops.
Now, I have always found it interesting that you see *no* Army or Navy staff around, but, from the show's perspective, it makes sense. To keep things accurate, that's a lot of advisors. And there ae things going on in 'SF, etc that really should be left quietly silent. Being able to focus on one branch of the service keeps it easier. ['KISS' = Keep It Simple Stupid]. In the 'RW', there are probably Army and Navu people around *if* they have a speciality the Air Force can't supply. I find that chance very minor.
And nobody want's to broaden the info chain on this by dragging another Joint Chief of Staff into this. My bet is the USMC JCoS sn't aware of what's going on, just that there are some of his folks 'attached' to a 'covert' USAF project.
So... real life military situations trying to be squeezed into a 44 minute SF TV program. That is a case of where 'RL' is too gritty, rough, tedious, messy, long in planning and a whole lot more to ever make it to the screen.
{My hero of the GulfWar was 4 star General 'Stormin' Norman' Schwarzkopf when he told the reporters during one of his daily breifings that he was *not* gonna tell them *anything* about tactics and troop deployment until after things had happened becasue he didn't want 'you bozos giving the enemy my troops lives' by broadcasting battle plans. He looked out for his own.
I'd follow that man into fire.
And I did.
Great input, Rowan. As one who doesn't get to watch the show that frequently, do all the team members live on-site? That would be logical for span-of-control and quick reaction. I remember when the F-117 Stealth program was still black. Everyone had to live off base and commute (via charter flight) to Tonopah. Even had one of that unit's troops living in our barracks at Nellis AFB because they couldn't find anywhere else to put him and he couldn't afford to live off-base yet (an E-2, I believe). By the way, I'm retired Air Force enlisted (Munitions Systems), and I just got a letter wanting me to go into the Air Force Reserve (back into Munitions). What - no takers from the younger set for Ammo?
Rowan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2000
- Messages
- 2,286
I don't know if I'd say there are no takers, Slater. Got a friend SSGT who makes her living doing AF TDY's. She just got back from Kuwait and is on her way to Turkey. Her nickname is 'Bomb Bunny'. 
Actually, it was made pretty clear from the first episode that folks live off base. With Ft. Carson and Patterson AFB right across the highway from the Mountain, you'd think there's be 'on post', but on top of the *normal* units you find on base and post, Patterson has the 'Space Command' unit and Carson hosts 10th SF, so space is *really* sung on housing. And trying to find anything long term ... especially for civilians... ouch!
Yeah... every now and again, I get a post trying to remind me 'how much fun' I had in the Army. And I admit, I *do* miss it. And might even think about it if they'd sweeten the pot. When I turned doown my last re-enlistment [at 21 some years], I'd had my E-8 as both a Master Sergeant and a First Sergeant for 6 years and they were dangeling the Sergeant's Major academy under my nose. Now, they offer to let me come back in as a E-7.
Sigh.
But there are a couple of slots in the Guard Medical Command we've talked about that I could really sink my teeth into and make a difference, which is all I care about. The '8' stays with me and it would be fun to work again.
However... I have this card from VA saying the Gulf 'broke' me [I'm a pill, 'secret' shots, exposed to 'something' kid - the neuro vatiant of GWS] and I think both the Guard and Reserves would frown on that.
But hey... ya never know. :}:star:
Actually, it was made pretty clear from the first episode that folks live off base. With Ft. Carson and Patterson AFB right across the highway from the Mountain, you'd think there's be 'on post', but on top of the *normal* units you find on base and post, Patterson has the 'Space Command' unit and Carson hosts 10th SF, so space is *really* sung on housing. And trying to find anything long term ... especially for civilians... ouch!
Yeah... every now and again, I get a post trying to remind me 'how much fun' I had in the Army. And I admit, I *do* miss it. And might even think about it if they'd sweeten the pot. When I turned doown my last re-enlistment [at 21 some years], I'd had my E-8 as both a Master Sergeant and a First Sergeant for 6 years and they were dangeling the Sergeant's Major academy under my nose. Now, they offer to let me come back in as a E-7.
Sigh.
But there are a couple of slots in the Guard Medical Command we've talked about that I could really sink my teeth into and make a difference, which is all I care about. The '8' stays with me and it would be fun to work again.
However... I have this card from VA saying the Gulf 'broke' me [I'm a pill, 'secret' shots, exposed to 'something' kid - the neuro vatiant of GWS] and I think both the Guard and Reserves would frown on that.
But hey... ya never know. :}:star:
Rowan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2000
- Messages
- 2,286
Thanks... I think...
I understand, Anni. They thought I had MS when I first got back, but it's finially been working it's way over the last 5+ years into a recognized pattern.
The US doesn't, at least the Veteran's Admin [who handlesvet medical care and pension] doesn't recognize 'Gulf War Syndrome' even though they have an active clinic for it at every major facility. My 'pension' is under 'combat related PTSD'... sorry to say I kinda earned that one too.
But there *is* a bright side. When someone or ones start to bug me too much I can just tell them 'I have a card from VA saying I'm 100% combat related crazy... wanna see it?'
Usually that's the end of the discussion or harrashment right there.
And ... I'm open about it becasue I want other vets, from whatever country, to know they're not alone. That their brothers and sisters are out here and we're there for them whenever they need it.
That nobody needs to stand 'this' watch alone in the dark.
I understand, Anni. They thought I had MS when I first got back, but it's finially been working it's way over the last 5+ years into a recognized pattern.
The US doesn't, at least the Veteran's Admin [who handlesvet medical care and pension] doesn't recognize 'Gulf War Syndrome' even though they have an active clinic for it at every major facility. My 'pension' is under 'combat related PTSD'... sorry to say I kinda earned that one too.
But there *is* a bright side. When someone or ones start to bug me too much I can just tell them 'I have a card from VA saying I'm 100% combat related crazy... wanna see it?'
Usually that's the end of the discussion or harrashment right there.
And ... I'm open about it becasue I want other vets, from whatever country, to know they're not alone. That their brothers and sisters are out here and we're there for them whenever they need it.
That nobody needs to stand 'this' watch alone in the dark.
Tell me about it!!! I was lucky in that nobody even realised I had combat related PTSD until after I was diagnosed with physcial illnesses... I kept getting pneumonia so my doc sent me to the hospital. The civilian NHS discovered that part of the lining of both lungs was stripped and asked if I'd been in a house fire!! I said, no, but I was pretty much close to 600 burning oilwell fires.
Then they sent me to Royal Brompton in London and I tested positive for Lipoid Pneumonia which is apparently an 'oilman's disease'. (They also found the very beginnings of cell changes for small cell lung cancer, for which I had chemo and am now in rem ission, I was extremely lucky, but the DSS won't service connect that)
They said if I had been sent two months earlier they could have done a BAL and prevented the petroleum particles from settling in the fatty tissues. So I got my War Disablement pension due to lung damage which WAS attributable to Gulf War Service. Of course lots of the UK vets were labelled with PTSD which causes a problem when they present with physical illnesses now, and I know that happened with many of my US veteran friends. I have many US GW veteran friends who were diagnosed with Psomatoform disorder..... Nothing like being told that your very real physical symptoms are all in your head!
The British DSS have told me that I am 56% disabled and for that, I get the princely sum of £56 per week!!!! I am lucky that I have a military gratuity coming in every month and I only have myself to think about (two sons now grown up), so I survive, but there are so many of my friends and colleagues who have young families..... six of my colleagues have died so far in the last year, one a very dear friend and I just heard about another.
Still, what the heck girl!! I am still alive and kicking and smelling the roses. And I intend to be around to celebrate my grandson's 18th birthday (he is now 2 and a half!)!
You're right though, no one should stand this watch alone, so I am active in veteran's groups and have even given talks to the DAV and American Legion in the US on the plight of UK veterans to let everyone know that it's a very big problem indeed and shouldn't be ignored!!
Phew, sorry bout the length, should have PM's you really, but I hate to do that without asking permission first!
Then they sent me to Royal Brompton in London and I tested positive for Lipoid Pneumonia which is apparently an 'oilman's disease'. (They also found the very beginnings of cell changes for small cell lung cancer, for which I had chemo and am now in rem ission, I was extremely lucky, but the DSS won't service connect that)
They said if I had been sent two months earlier they could have done a BAL and prevented the petroleum particles from settling in the fatty tissues. So I got my War Disablement pension due to lung damage which WAS attributable to Gulf War Service. Of course lots of the UK vets were labelled with PTSD which causes a problem when they present with physical illnesses now, and I know that happened with many of my US veteran friends. I have many US GW veteran friends who were diagnosed with Psomatoform disorder..... Nothing like being told that your very real physical symptoms are all in your head!
The British DSS have told me that I am 56% disabled and for that, I get the princely sum of £56 per week!!!! I am lucky that I have a military gratuity coming in every month and I only have myself to think about (two sons now grown up), so I survive, but there are so many of my friends and colleagues who have young families..... six of my colleagues have died so far in the last year, one a very dear friend and I just heard about another.
Still, what the heck girl!! I am still alive and kicking and smelling the roses. And I intend to be around to celebrate my grandson's 18th birthday (he is now 2 and a half!)!
You're right though, no one should stand this watch alone, so I am active in veteran's groups and have even given talks to the DAV and American Legion in the US on the plight of UK veterans to let everyone know that it's a very big problem indeed and shouldn't be ignored!!
Phew, sorry bout the length, should have PM's you really, but I hate to do that without asking permission first!
CynVision
CO, RDA's Leather Brigade
Hey Rowan,
Remember a few weeks ago when I joined the lists and I was scratching my head over why the AF had charge of the Stargate? Well, lookie now with the AF getting marching orders on being in charge of securing space and other related computer technologies against outside influence. At least, that's how I heard it from the news shows this weekend. And I hear of big budget shortages in the military system. So now that part of the show has a RL basis.
And I love hearing all the stuff you all know about military-how-it-works, the Mountain, and related stuff in the area! It's great inspiration for my fics Helps me write my AF character!
Remember a few weeks ago when I joined the lists and I was scratching my head over why the AF had charge of the Stargate? Well, lookie now with the AF getting marching orders on being in charge of securing space and other related computer technologies against outside influence. At least, that's how I heard it from the news shows this weekend. And I hear of big budget shortages in the military system. So now that part of the show has a RL basis.
And I love hearing all the stuff you all know about military-how-it-works, the Mountain, and related stuff in the area! It's great inspiration for my fics
Helps me write my AF character!
Gemsong
The Spawn Queen
- Joined
- Mar 19, 2001
- Messages
- 1,167
I'll agree with that. While I do have 8 years military experience, I don't have the more combat related experience. Spouse does, but it isn't always easy to get him to talk about it.
What I found ironic about my stint was that I requested overseas assignments and they sent me to Luke AFB in arizona. I was a jet engine mechanic [I fixed the engines of the f-15]. Four years they sent me no where. War games were a joke. After my enlistment was up, I went into the reserves and crossed trained as an administration specialist. That enlistment was up just before the gulf war.
I never went anywhere. And it was tough as hell to feel you're contributing to the "Air Force" Team when you're sitting in a corning in 90 degree weather cleaning oil filters.
Insights from Rowan and others makes what I know more rounded and I can add the realism to my stories.
So ladies and gents, thank you.
What I found ironic about my stint was that I requested overseas assignments and they sent me to Luke AFB in arizona. I was a jet engine mechanic [I fixed the engines of the f-15]. Four years they sent me no where. War games were a joke. After my enlistment was up, I went into the reserves and crossed trained as an administration specialist. That enlistment was up just before the gulf war.
I never went anywhere. And it was tough as hell to feel you're contributing to the "Air Force" Team when you're sitting in a corning in 90 degree weather cleaning oil filters.
Insights from Rowan and others makes what I know more rounded and I can add the realism to my stories.
So ladies and gents, thank you.
Rowan
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Sep 26, 2000
- Messages
- 2,286
Thank yous...
No, thank *you* Gem and every man and woman like you who raised you hand and took the same chances we all did: of getting the call.
And thanks to all of those at home who made sure we had bullets, beans and band-aids. Can't run a conflict without supplies and everyone single person from admin up was and is an essential part of the chain.
Thank you to every single person who, dispite how they might have felt about the 'war', could seperate the troops from the politics. You made all of us proud and humble to be Americans.
And a special thank you to our Brothers and Sisters from the Viet Nam war. It was your fight for rights, understanding and acceptance... your guiding light... that gave us, the Desert Stormies, the home and homecomming we recieved on our return.
Gentlemen and women, I salute you and thank you from the bottom of my heart. Welcome home. Ya done good.
Rowan
Jari L. James, MSG/1SG
US Army [ret]
No, thank *you* Gem and every man and woman like you who raised you hand and took the same chances we all did: of getting the call.
And thanks to all of those at home who made sure we had bullets, beans and band-aids. Can't run a conflict without supplies and everyone single person from admin up was and is an essential part of the chain.
Thank you to every single person who, dispite how they might have felt about the 'war', could seperate the troops from the politics. You made all of us proud and humble to be Americans.
And a special thank you to our Brothers and Sisters from the Viet Nam war. It was your fight for rights, understanding and acceptance... your guiding light... that gave us, the Desert Stormies, the home and homecomming we recieved on our return.
Gentlemen and women, I salute you and thank you from the bottom of my heart. Welcome home. Ya done good.
Rowan
Jari L. James, MSG/1SG
US Army [ret]
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