Jolinar was a stupid idea

[ILStSg]

The thing I hate about a TV-show or a book, is that they have fail-safe plots. Meaning they take an idea and use it over and over again. This idea for Sam's character development was ok at first, but then it became some what annoying after "Jolinar's memories saves the day again". (Fair game, LEGACY, etc.)

It was done already with Deep Space Nine (Trill, and Jadiza's case), so an idea that could have been interesting but it became a stupid excuse when the writers don't know how to save the SG1 or the SGC asses.

Sorry had to blow off steam....

 

[pamie]

Yeah in part I will agree...sometimes I think it goes on too much aboout Jolinar...ie...Sam can now sence Gou'ald, she always has 'that' memory from Jolinar and can sometimes be the excuse for all problems solved...but I did really like the story but like you can feel that it gets over used a little

 

[Unicorns]

jolinar

Jolinar wasn't a bad idea! It *had* to happen to someone - narrative convention demands it. Sam got the short straw. Without J, there wouldn't have been the Tok'ra (maybe they would have turned up eventually, but who's gonna trust 'em without J saving Sam's life?), so Jacob would have died, leaving us without the wonderful character that he is. We would have lost the Treaty with the Goa'uld - splat goes Earth. We (hang on, I'm using "we" here, this worries me.) would not have had a lot of very good stuff. Sure, it might have been over done. Hello? There is no such thing as original any more. Jack hates cliches, but he is part of the biggest cliche. He is a cliche, Daniel is the "bumbling civillian" cliche, Sam is the "girl" cliche, Teal'c is the "nasty alien turned to a good guy by having one good long look at his heart while talking to the heroes" cliche. Jack is almost the worst cliche out of the lot of them! He's the wisecracking, rebellious, acting stupider than he really is, has father/son relationship with CO hero who gets whumped more than the entire rest of the cast put together!

Y'know, I'm pretty sure I had a point here. :rolly2: That's right. J was a good idea - a lot of story lines would have been lost without it, and Jolinars memories don't save the day any more than Daniel "suddenly" remembering what a word means, or Teal'c knowing some tiny bit of trivia from his pre-Tau'ri times. So it's a cliche - tell me one thing about 'Gate that dosn't have it's roots firmly entrenched in a cliche somewhere along the line.

And that's all I have to say about that.

 

[skydiver]

to me jols would have been a waste of time had it never been developed further. if all the points that unicorns made never came to pass...but jols and her memories are now an integral part of the show and its mythology.

it's as much a part of the mythology as jack being the asgard's fav human, or danny's connection with shifu and teal'c's apparant forthcoming 'leader of the rebellion' role.
little things have happened to them and it has changed them and become part of the basis for eps to come.

the times i feel it's wasted is like when machello swapped with danny...in the end they got nothing out of it all. (ok the killer slugs but those weren't really dependant on danny to happen)

or teal'c's ability to communicate with junior a bit....that revelation and the gaining of that ability is wasted if it doesn't advance the plot.

pretend jols never happened....taking that piece out of continuity would basically trash several eps entirely.

i will agree with you that season 3 especialy was the season of jols saving the day....so they leaned on that crutch a bit too much. then again they also lean on danny's 23 languages translating to him being able to talk to anyone on any planet or teal'c knowing every in and out of goauld politics even though he's been cut off for 5 years now.

 

[ILStSg]

I am not talking about the story in general. I am talking about the show's writing in general. Without that idea with Jolinar, the show would have done fine. It's called 'smart writing' where the writers don't have a main character and develop special powers to save their ass, and there are abosoluty no drawbacks what so ever to the character. Instead they create a clever plot that in the end of the episode makes us think of other possibilities. Star trek did that once.

 

[nic]

I liked the idea of Jolinar, if anything because it gave Carter her own storyline.
Still, I do know what you mean about "Jolinar saves the day".

I episode like Foothold - sam wasn't effected due to the protein markers.

Mentally speaking, Im amazed Carter wasn't effected more.
considering she has bits and pieces of someone elses memory.

 

[ysm]

Originally posted by nic
I liked the idea of Jolinar, if anything because it gave Carter her own storyline.
Still, I do know what you mean about "Jolinar saves the day".

I episode like Foothold - sam wasn't effected due to the protein markers.

Mentally speaking, Im amazed Carter wasn't effected more.
considering she has bits and pieces of someone elses memory.

It's a wonder she's not stark raving mad! Can you imagine having some1 elses memories--you'd be schizophrenic! :crazy: never knowing what happened to you or some1 else or how long ago. :iiworry:

 

[Unicorns]

Memories

Apart from the fact that schizophenia is what Danny got in Legacy, *not* what the Jim Carrey had in Me Myself and Irene. Split personality disorder and schizophenia are different.

Anyway, I don't think that the memories are there all the time like *our* own memories. They aren't available for her to trawl through all the time. She was moaning during Bane that she might know how to help Junior, only she didn't *know* how to get at it. That's why the memory devices were made, to enhance the memories. I think the "flashback" in Need was tiredness taking over. But seriously, for the sake of the show, it couldn't have too much effect. If Sam was permantly changed in a big way, then it would be weird. The producers are apparently trying to push for a "blank start" thing every ep - even if you have no idea what is going on you can jump in at any time. But I *do* think that it's odd that Sam can't speak Goa'uld now. Something as basic and essential as language would jump minds better than flashes of memories.

Laters

 

[squire]

Yeah, but she seems to only get the flashes when she is totally involved in what is going on...
So maybe, one episode, she might have to try and read or translate Goa'uld, and she might be able to pick some of it up...
Thats just a thought....