1.16 : The Menagerie.

[Highlander II]

Talos IV - question

okay - was reading my little "Federation Travel Guide" that i picked up at a bookstore somewhere (really cool book btw) -- and i came across the listing for Talos IV - and the book says that contact w/ Talos IV is a violation of General Order 7 -- which would make a lot more sense if i remebered what GO7 was -- okay - so, (since it's been ages since i've seen much ST) what is Talos IV (yeah, i know it's a planet) and why is the Federation not supposed to go there? (and i know as soon as ya tell me i'm gonna smack myself in the head and go 'duh, i knew that' - so i'll just do it now)

 

[ray gower]

Isn't Talos IV where Star Trek started?

Captain Pike get his mind scrampled?

 

[Gemsong]

They are extremely powerful and potentially dangerous telepaths.

 

[Dave]

That is all correct.

General Order number seven was mentioned in the 'Menagerie' TOS -- no vessel may approach -- presumably because of Pike's previous experiences there -- they only just got away. But Spock ignores the order to take Pike there.

That is one book that I don't have, but it does look good. (Christmas is not long off!)

 

[Highlander II]

Originally posted by Dave
That is all correct.

General Order number seven was mentioned in the 'Menagerie' TOS -- no vessel may approach -- presumably because of Pike's previous experiences there -- they only just got away. But Spock ignores the order to take Pike there.

That is one book that I don't have, but it does look good. (Christmas is not long off!)

thanx! (not only to Dave - to everyone!) --

the book is small --- about the same size as the Ferengi ROA book -- i can't remember what it costs tho ---

i think i have Q's guide to the Continuum - but i have no idea where i put it --- (i hate moving) -- it's probably in a box somewhere -- probably one of the boxes that generally holds my Highlander series tapes --- (have to find that thing)

 

[Neo]

well xmas is round the corner.... dave....

i have a BIG list already

 

[Dave]

>>> Moving this to 'The Menagerie' thread.

 

[Dave]

Spock commandeers the 'Enterprise', kidnaps it's former captain, Pike, and breaks General Order number 7 to take them all to Talos IV.

For it's time, 'Star Trek' was expensive to produce. Although the second pilot 'Where No Man Has Gone Before' had a few descrepancies from the series, it could be fitted in. The first pilot 'The Cage' was just too different, and there seemed no way to use it. Roddenberry's solution was to create a frame around the original footage that preserved series continuity while making it possible to utilize the first episode. The result makes for a very appealing episode, with lots of backstory, and an interesting premise, and if you didn't know about 'The Cage' you would think that they had built a whole new set just to film this double episode.

Jeffery Hunter, the original Pike, wasn't available, so the crippled Pike is played by Sean Kenney. All the footage of the young Pike used actually comes from 'The Cage'.

spoiler about Commodore Mendez:

Spoiler

He is actually an illusion created by the Talosians: He boarded the Enterprise at Starbase 11, six days travel at maximum Warp from Talos IV: That's a long way to transmit illusions, shouldn't the entire sector by forbidden by General Order IV, instead of only the planetary system?

 

[logan_run]

If Jeffrey Hunter remained alive till at least the 90s and continued a captain pike ,would star trek still be a huge franchise?.

 

[Extollager]

Watching Part 1 again, I'm struck by how well the teleplay holds one's attention -- given that it is, after all, largely filler.

A little more should have been made of the crew's recent conflict on the Rigel planet. The beam-down crew on Talos IV includes Captain Pike (whom we know to have been shaken by what happened on Rigel), a limping Spock, and a crewman with a bandage on his neck. Yet someone watching the episode might wonder why Spock is limping, not recalling the Rigel thing, etc.

 

[Extollager]

Part 2 poses ethical questions and answers them one way, but I doubt that I agree. Perhaps this will be of interest:

Wormwoodiana: Guest Post: Machen’s Teilo in “The Tree of Life” and the Talosian Situation by Dale Nelson

I fell victim to an illusion myself -- I "remembered" that Vina was a child when she crashed on the planet. In fact she was an adult.

 

[Extollager]

I've always liked the backdrop paintings on the Talos IV surface.

They remind me somehow of the Zallinger dinosaur paintings in the Peabody Museum.

The Zallinger art, as I've said before here at Chrons, was, I figure, one of the things that caught me for science fiction when I was a kid.

 

[Galactic Journey]

Leonard Nimoy once charitably described Hunter as having "less latitude" than William Shatner (he was talking about acting ability, not girth).

I don't know if Hunter could have demonstrated Shatner's range. Say what you will (you'll often be right, and you'll often be mistaken), but Shatner could act.

 

[Galactic Journey]

if you didn't know about 'The Cage' you would think that they had built a whole new set just to film this double episode.

That's exactly what young me thought. I was appropriately impressed. One of my favorite episodes.

 

[Frost Giant]

I think Hunter could have pulled it off. What I would have liked to see is Barrett continue as #1 with Spock as Science Officer. I thought she did a good job.

 

[Dave]

I don't think it would have worked in any way other than the way that it did pan out.

I say that, not because I don't think it would have been great to have a female number one, or a more "cerebral" captain, but only because the time was clearly not right for it to happen. However GR can be proud of pushing all of those boundaries within the show with the first inter-racial kiss etc.

 

[logan_run]

how about with shatner as first officer .with sulu .scoty etc.?

 

[BAYLOR]

how about with shatner as first officer .with sulu .scoty etc.?

There is str trek Alt history novel in which Pike commander the enterprise and Kirks is his first officer.

 

[BAYLOR]

I don't think it would have worked in any way other than the way that it did pan out.

I say that, not because I don't think it would have been great to have a female number one, or a more "cerebral" captain, but only because the time was clearly not right for it to happen. However GR can be proud of pushing all of those boundaries within the show with the first inter-racial kiss etc.

I think Jeffrey Hunter given time would have been fine in Role. He was a pretty good actor and a 3 or 4 year stint on Star Trek would have been very helpful to his career.

Two other actors were up for the role of Kirk Lloyd Bridges and Jack Lord. I often wonder how they would have worked out.

 

[Frost Giant]

I agree, Baylor. I think Barrett would've won people over as 1st officer, too. NBC didn't give the public enough credit, in my opinion.