Characters, Actors, and Writers

[webmouse]

While I'm probably older than many who post here, I am new to laying out my copious opinions in such a forum (one can still see traces of my antique liberal arts education).

Many who write seem to love/hate the character (in this case I'm a Daniel admirer) and then I can't really tell how much of this carries over to the actor -- who is, of course, a separate entity.

But then adding further to the confusion is that much of what is "Daniel" is something written by someone else. As they say in the biz "If it ain't on the page, it ain't on the stage."

So when someone isn't a "Daniel" fan, is that a criticism of the character, the actor, or the writer? Or all three? When one loves Daniel, who/what is being loved?

Sorry, ladies, though I still admire a fine bod when I see one, my interests here are more philosophical.

 

[suebsg1]

well i am an admirer of the actor who brings to life the character, so always hard for me to refer to the character, i have problems in danielites because of that problem i watch the show because of the actor michael shanks and how he brings daniel to life so easy for me to distinquish the two

i enjoy the way an actor can do that, that is why i was impressed with the the way he brought gabriel to life in andromeda and the other characters i have seen him do from his earlier days til now and i am pushing for michael to do stage or film work so i can see him do something else

not sure if that is point you were making

sue

 

[webmouse]

Gabriel/Andromeda

Thanks for getting back to me. I love to see a favorite actor doing lots of things -- good guys, bad guys, whatever.

Didn't get to see the "Starcrossed" ep of Andromeda. Any chance that you have a VHS copy?

 

[imported_TheDoc]

philosophical analysis of daniel jackson - quite a challenge.

it's not so much about the actor or the character, but about what daniel *stands* for. the voice of humanity in a military world, and the way he influences the team. maybe also the childlike wonder he greets the world with. how much of this is thanks to the authors and how much thanks to the actor - hard to tell. equal parts, I think.

a loyal shanks fan will most probably be loyal to the characters he plays as well. while somebody who digs the daniel character might be torn between spader's and shank's interpretation, but will still like daniel for what he stands for. those who can't stand shanks will have a hard time getting to like a character he plays; this works for both, the daniophiles and the daniophobes.

I've seen him in outer limits and andromeda, and while this was fairly ok, his acting on "mary 25" didn't convince me at all. burn me on a stake, but I still think the reason people went googoo over this episode is the fact the bloke is seen bare chested ... (not that I mind.) again: you can blame a weak script or the actor, it always depends on your point of view. the best actor is lost if the script is cheesy.

I've yet to see a movie/stageplay where his acting really knocks me off my socks. but he's still young, and he's learned a lot; and yes, it's been interesting to see how both grew up over the years, actor and character.

the doc :blpaw:

 

[webmouse]

A Refreshing Discussion

I'm really enjoying reading replies from people who are thinking beyond their hormones. (Yes, I do admire a fine bod, but I'm way too old to drool)

I've only seen MS in Stargate and that Mars movie, in which he played a character not very different from Daniel. Since I didn't see the Andromeda ep, I don't know how he played a villain, but I often rate an actor by villainy -- especially if the audience isn't meant to see it coming.

Evil is always so much better when it is also beautiful.

 

[skydiver]

i for one am not a danilite. out of the four he is my least fave. and while i am sorry to see the character either leave or have a decidedly diminished role, i for one welcome the changes a new character will bring.
i will miss him, i mean just recently i was starting to like him more, actually during season 4 & 5 where he was less the (now don't flame me please) wuss/naive/geek who was searching for his wife and became more an equal member of the team.
sarcastic daniel turned into capable daniel. and i started to like him more. during hte beginning he seemed to fill the role of the 'victim' in so many ways.

i look forward to stargate: TNG and the changes that will come. i think they will inject some fresh blood into the show.


now as to the actor, i'll say i have to respect MS for having the gumption/guts/whatever to say no to another year's guaranteed salary and risk it all on what jobs he may get. given that jay acavone said he hasn't worked in 4 months, giving up a steasy paycheck isn't easy.
i know i'll keep my eyes open and if he does something that i can watch, i will.
i also personally wish him the best of luck

 

[imported_TheDoc]

oh, I definitely think he's a fine villain; or a torn character. better than good guy, actually (but good guys are a tad bit boring, mostly ...) evil daniel in "absolute power" was my fav daniel so far.

I fully agree with skydiver. people who now scream for the shanks head on a plate ignore the fact that he's giving up a secure financial background and heads off into the lousy paid depths of indie movies. there are directors who work at burgerkings to eat (well not that I think he'll have to go that far, but still ...)

showbiz is a sharkpond. and it's BUSINESS. 99 % of those who try to swim in it become food rather than famous. the shanks is clever enough to know this, and he's persistent (some say stubborn ...), so I'm sure he's fully aware what he gets himself into there. yep, he's got guts. sure got some extra points on my "woof" scale for this; I'd be evenwilling to bet 5 bucks he'll make it. from what I heard, his work on "the artists circle" was really impressive.

and beside that, I fully understand any artists wish to win respect for skills rather than for "baby blues".

the doc :blpaw:

 

[CynVision]

Since I write fic the character and the actor are separate in one way or another to me. I've also spent close to twelve years in the theatre so for sure I know that actors can be quite different from the character. The trouble is seeing the character and thinking that the actor must be like that character. This is to some small part true. They might not have gotten hired for the part without being able to "do" stuff necessary for the character. It's part of them but may not be the true personality they express the rest of the time. Things like that are determined by the director of the play. Actors borrow and steal stuff from people they've encountered in their lives to make characters. Writers make characters do things the actor may never have thought possible. A lot of the time I think the writer is responsible for making us like that character and they are usually putting that character as likable to drive home a point in the play often as not.

I've been in a unique position where actors have come back to different shows and I've watched them play new characters. In one way or another I know they are putting themselves in there, but a director will be quick to steer them where he or she wants the character to go. Some actors have enough of a say to explain why a thing they're doing works and whether the director listens is more a function of how well they know the actor than anything objective.

I've loved characters in a show and been completely turned-off by actors that play them because they are simply disagreeable folks. Some make sacrifices in RL to "get into the character" on stage. And I've seen the strange release that an actor has at the end of the production. I've seen a few change into different people when they "let go" the role. After nine, ten, fourteen weeks they can cut their hair, wear sneakers, eat chocolate, etc. Working around actors is working around some pretty strange folks.

 

[webmouse]

Ah, Another Theatre Person

Well, CynVision, seems we've shared some of the same world. I got a B.A. in Theatre many long years ago and thought that most of what I played was really nothing like me -- yet those characters appeared on stage. From a Puritan girl to a Vaudeville hooker, but still it was me.

It worries me though when fans expect the actor to be the character all the time or are horrified to find out that the actor isn't anything at all like the character in the off hours.

Also, some of the criticism of MS not doing con appearances stems from a misunderstanding about the differences about being on a stage in a play and being on a stage at a con. The stage may be the same and the actor may be the same, but the performance and expectations are entirely different.

Personally I hate being on stage without a solid knowledge of the script (oh, you won't catch me ad libbing). MS may be very much the same. Some of us are very dependent on the writer. In those cases where I have been a con guest I usually have written -- or at least thought out -- most of what I'm going to say. Guess then I'm my own writer, actor and character.

 

[skydiver]

from being at gatecon it can be scary to be on that stage. i mean you walk out and immediatly are assaulted(verbally) by several hundred excited screaming fans...yes we did yell, shout and cheer when folks came on stage.
and yes this is a normal reaction and yes it is part and parcel to doing public appearances. i'd think if i were a star the time i'm greeted iwth a polite smattering of applause is when i'd know i'm not welcome.

but it can also be off putting if an individual is in the least shy or unsure. it can quite frankly be scary. especaillly if you're ever heard any of the horror stories, folks that rush the stage, follow the star into the bathroom, give him/her room numbers (the last two did happen last year on the bathroom and this year on the room numbers)

there seem to be two basic classes/types of fen, the ones that want to mingle but are also respectful or even shy in the presence of the stars, and the ones that seem to have a hard time separating fantasy and reality.

it is the latter type that sometimes give fans a bad rep.

if MS has heard various adn sundry horror stories he may not wihs to mingle with the fen, he also may wish to guard his private time(ie he's danny jackson during shooting time but his weekends are his)...i don't know, i've never met the man.

i do know he did the san diego comic con and is supposedly doing the one in australia and it's possible that if he keeps having positive experiences he may do more.

 

[imported_TheDoc]

looks like this has become the "thread of thespis" ...

that's absolutely true. I'm a stand up comedian, and while I got absolutely no problem to get on stage and make something out of nothing (only about 20 % of my set is penciled down), I'm at loss as soon as it comes to "real" acting. I just *can't* pretend to be somebody else. I tried it with "serious" acting, but I was a total, hopeless failure.

and of course this works the other way round, too, some actors are helpless without a script and a director. a friend of mine does a lot of "boulevard" comedies, and he actually *is* a very witty guy. but the interviews he gave were just a total disaster - he simply didn't know how to re-act without a script (he's given up on interviews. his wife gives them now...)

I've only seen one interview of ms so far, must be from ye olden days, and I thought: have mercy, give the poor bloke a break and let him go! ah well, times are a changing, and I'm positive he'll make it through his convention spots relatively unharmed and in one piece...

the doc :blpaw:

 

[CynVision]

Originally posted by skydiver
(the last two did happen last year on the bathroom and this year on the room numbers)

Not knowing (and maybe we don't need to spread exactly who) but I can bet who was approached had to do with how much megawats the actor took to the stage. I fear that it is proving the point that actors who are reserved will not expose themselves to this. However, you don't think those people given room numbers didn't get a little charge that someone would bother trying while finding it slightly amusing?

 

[skydiver]

the giving of the room numbers was innocent enough. i mean all hte actor had to do was throw them away, s/he was safe and the fan had thier fantasy. harmless fun

BUT the following into the loo (yeah i know it's a british word but it just works better and is shorter than bathroom ) was totally out of line.

rumor has it that experience was one reason each star had one dedicated security person and at least 4 or 6, can't recall which, when they were roaming the halls, to keep the few and rabid from spoiling the experience for all of us.

honestly though, the extreme fans were very, very few. most of the attendees were polite and respectful.

 

[webmouse]

My Experience As A Con Guest

I've done cons in as a musical guest -- sometimes on my own, sometimes part of a group of musicians passing songs around. I've even been the warmup for the main band in the "big room." But its the same cons with the same fen and its all very familiar and safe and not scary. After 20 years I know pretty much what to expect -- and no one is rushing or roaring at me.

If MS hasn't had a lot of experience with the fen or has heard the horror stories, well, who can blame him for deciding to keep to himself.

There is an odd belief that all theatre folk are extroverts, but in fact, quite the opposite is true. Many are shy and only appear if they can come out in someone else's "skin."

 

[Abydos6]

Answer to orginal question

I watch the show because i like the character of Daniel Jackson.

Michael Shanks, is a wonderful actor who has been able to bring Daniel Jackson from the movie, to the small screen, and hopefully back again, alive for me. I have seen him in some other things, and quite like his ablity, okay sure i say, hey there's daniel, but only cause thats who i equite the actor with.

Daniel Jackson, is a wonderful character, who had such scope and potential, I loved that they used him so well, that he even got a shot at playing dark characters every so often, a really nice little man, who turned into a reluctant hero, and grew up basically, love the character.

anyway, time for not-making sense is now up lol.

aby(who will miss daniel, but looks forward to seeing what Michael does next)