Where does the iris retract to?

[spider]

I asked this over on the other thread, but it didn't really get adressed...

What I would like to know is how the iris is stored. If you ever look at the iris being closed, you'll see that there is pretty much no place for it to go. Where does it retract to? Directly into the gate?

 

[padders]

i think this might be a case of... "do we really have to build a new stargate to fit the iris into.. this is going to cost $x and means we can't have lots of explosions next episode". I guess it is meant to go into the gate but agree there is no room for it

 

[Rowan]

Iris

Well... after looking at the Iris and looking [and touching] the Gate, all I can say is, in real life, it must crawl up in a CGI bin somewhere.

As for the 'SG' dynamics: I have no frelling idea. Something that durable shouldn't be able to fold that compactly. There's just no room in the width/depth of the gate ring for it to happen.

For me, it falls under an 'Ask Sam or Siler' thing.

I wish I had a better idea. Now that question's gonna bug me for days.

{Bet you can't tell which SF show I've receantly found. }

 

[PTeppic]

You have touched the gate... [SFX: kneeling in worship :;]

Not just the iris itself, for which the individual leaves should not really open as far as the width as the gate, but also the motors which do the opening and closing!!

From my own deductions, I would suggest there are also the sensory devices which can tell when someone is a "traveller en route" - if anyone is interested I have described this theory on another thread, or can PM it.

 

[Rowan]

Iris

[[You have touched the gate... [SFX: kneeling in worship :;]]

I was very lucky and had the opportunity to visit the set during GateCon2001, this year's Stargate convention, in Richmond BC [just south of Vancouver, BC]. :}

[[Not just the iris itself, for which the individual leaves should not really open as far as the width as the gate, but also the motors which do the opening and closing!!]]

Realistically, there's no way anything metal should fit in that space. Even after they started using a tritium iris.

[[From my own deductions, I would suggest there are also the sensory devices which can tell when someone is a "traveller en route" - if anyone is interested I have described this theory on another thread, or can PM it. ]]

My concern is if there *were* sensory device that noticed 'incoming travellers', there'd be no way to prevent unwelcome visitors: the main reason the iris is there in the first place. And that still doesn't explain where the mass of the physical iris goes. We know it's got to be pretty solid from what Sokar did to it when he was coming after Apophis and left the poor thing glowing.

You may have just hit on one of those enigma's of 'Gatedom'... 'The Phantom Iris'.

 

[PTeppic]

a) I guessed you had been to the Con...

b) I don't have a problem with iris leaves opening as far as they do - I think I have a problem with them closing so far, when there are so many leaves and so thick a material.

c) I definitely don't understand your response about the sensors. If the sensors pick up an incoming traveller, they shut the iris, however it works and wherever it comes from. As long as their new, shiny trinium/titanium alloy is in place within a few micrometers, they can prevent molecular reintegration.

 

[Roach]

The way the iris is formed, with the spiraling blades, makes it quite easy for them to close the way they do; you can see the same style of "door" in Alien. And the metal isn't very thick, we can see that in the black hole ep, where the iris buckles allowing us to see the metal side-on.

Right now, I'm staring at about 12 vid caps, and I seriously can't see anywhere for the iris to go. I've also opened up shots of other off-world gates, and there's nothing added to the Earth gate that the iris could be hiding in. The only way they could retract the iris, as far as I can see, would be to cut right into the Gate, which would probably destroy the gate in the process.

 

[shu_hunter]

Originally posted by PTeppic
"As long as their {iris} is in place within a few micrometers, they can prevent molecular reintegration. [/B]

it doesn't have to be thick, i dont think.. it just has to stop matter from reintegration. i suppose that's why it can fit inside the inner ring.
maybe.
i dunno.
it makes sense 2 me.

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Râ's soldiers

If you think about it, there's the same *problem* with Râ's eagle and wolf *helmeted* soldiers. Their helmets could retract to a device located behind their neck that was almost invisible, without saying that it didn't seem to be really heavy.

Naquadah seems to be a metal that can be shape-programmed, a bit like some nano-mollecular materials that we could control.

Then, it's safely to assume that Râ soldiers' armor was made of naquadah, without saying that this raw material can absorb any kind of energy (as stated in some episode) except the good old kinetic one (otherwise bullets wouldn't go through !).

And in fact, this means that all the theories eluded by Carter about the stargate resistance may be really false if some A-bomb had to explode and blow the gate. I bet it would be ripped apart, despite all their pretty theories.

 

[PTeppic]

The problem with some of the things in the film is that they were disregarded or even changed/reversed in the series. They couldn't afford to do disappearing helmets in the series, so did half-lowering ones. The position of Abydos was "the other side of the known universe" in the film, but "one of the closest planets in the network to other" and the network only covers our own galaxy in the series.

Whilst the theory is good, it may be limited in following up since there is no further evidence from the series.

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

As a CGI *cough* artist, I may say that the shrinking helmet and other things like Râ's outfits were really really far from being the most expensive parts of the series.

I think this is simply a choice of the writers.

Râ had the best armies, better than Apophis', so the helmets of his troups were jointed and could retract.

But it seams that Apophis had other weapons that Râ didn't had (yes we know, this because of the lenght of the series that showed much more technology, but well, let's play the game).

SPOILER !!


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SPOILER !!


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SPOILER !!

Well, I only hope that we will see the return of these special armors and outfits with the appearance of Anubis.

***

 

[Tiberius]

*Looks at nanite technology...*

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by Ko'or Oragahn
As a CGI *cough* artist, I may say that the shrinking helmet and other things like Râ's outfits were really really far from being the most expensive parts of the series.

Are you including the cost of re-animating EACH time the Jaffa opens or closes his helmet? It would be much more difficult to do a "stock" animation, compared to say the "whoosh" of the stargate activating (which IS stock).

Saying that, the cost of CGI has probably dropped greatly in the five or more years since they made the original decision!

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Yep, I included the cost to integrate the animation every time a Jaffa opened or closed his helmet (which is simply a reversed animation).

The 3D animation just had to be stocked, and then the only *hard* part of all that would have been to blend the animation into the show frames.

As most of the time the show use, static plans (unlike the movies), the addition of the FX isn't hard at all.

Look for eg at the FX of a firing staff or a zat gun. They're beautiful and perfect I'd say, they were clever in managing to get the energetic arcs run along the weapons and other eye candy things like that.

They never redid the CGI effects from the beginnig. As you said, they used the stock scripted FX.

Plus the fact that if I can remember, all the armies shown in the show had the same snake helmets (I may be wrong about that and have to check out Heru'Ur's troops).

The process that cost much of the time is in fact to render the animation and make it look real by using a powerfull engine.

And from what I saw in the show, despite some rare and unusual low qualities effects, they looked pretty well all the time. I'm used to say that they're far above Babylon 5's ones for example.

So I think this has nothing to do with costs but more with continuity... bloopers.

---

Hey, now I remember of another example of appearing/disappearing system using the same technology.

It was in The Curse episode, when Osiris escaped in her own ship hid in a desert on Earth. When it took off, a long sting, longer than the height of the ship's hull, grown underneath of the ship. If I don't know what was the real role of such a big device, I bet it was using the same technology as the Iris one.

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by Ko'or Oragahn
So I think this has nothing to do with costs but more with continuity... bloopers.

Or more, the new and different producers deciding on a change of direction. There is only a limited benefit in exploring differences between film and series. It is a fair accomplit!

It was in The Curse episode, when Osiris escaped in her own ship hid in a desert on Earth. When it took off, a long sting, longer than the height of the ship's hull, grown underneath of the ship. If I don't know what was the real role of such a big device, I bet it was using the same technology as the Iris one.

The same technology is seen in the pilot episode! Large changes to Apophis's ship from transport to attack role.

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Yep, good point about Apophis' ship. The two forms of his ship had specific roles, transport or battle. Ok.

EDIT : I prefered to open a new thread about Osiris' ship.

 

[System Lord Gypsy]

Well, as far as I concerned about the Iris it's just one of those, "oops, we forgot about that" things that keep popping up in SG-1. We know there is pretty much no way it can fit into the gate but I am going to have a pick at the sensor theory with the iris.

We know it doesn't automatically close because of the amount of times we've heard Sam or Jack shout "close the Iris" after coming through or Hammond saying the same thing when there is an offworld activation. As far as I can tell it's controlled from the same panel Walter uses to open the gate itself.

Gypsy

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Well, in fact, the iris seems to be made of pure titanium and enhanced with trinium (same material used for the reactor of Apophis's experimental ship).

So in fact, along the naquadah, a lot of objects, armors, outfits and systems could be made of trinium as well.

 

[PTeppic]

a) we first see Trinium in the series 2 episode "Spirits"

b) the iris is originally pure titanium, but is replaced with a combined titanium/trinium alloy after the events in series 2 "A Matter of Time"

c) theoretically - but they have not been commented on explicitly, so little evidence.

Trinium seems to be very light and strong, but not to have some of the amazing properties of naquadah. I guess it would probably have been mentioned if it were used elsewhere.

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

You're right.

But to me, as there are objects that share the same amazing properties than the iris, and since we know what the iris is made of, I'll actually assume that, for example, parts of the armor, outfits, hips and other are made of this combination of materials... until something official is said.