MS chickening out?

lene morissette

I'm BACK!!!! Yay! Hiya!
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I think MS is being rather selfish 2 b honest. I read sumwhere that one of the reasons he left was bcoz he figured that when he signed up to do stargate, his character and Jack would b the central characters and since it didn't work out like that, he didn't like it. If that is the case then I figure that the reason he left was bcoz he is sulking and bitter about being less of a main character than Sam (i.e. a GIRL) bcoz I think that O'Neill and Carter get more screentime and/or plotlines ( not neccessarily together!) than Danny or Teal'c. I think the reason 4 this is that at the end of the day, the show is about the military and how it deals with stuff and O'Neill and Carter are in the military. I personally feel that the main thing in the show for me is the interaction between characters and the relationships (not always romantic ones) that develop as a result of this. The history of the characters is an important part of the show bcoz unless we know where the characters r coming from, we can't understand their reasons 4 doing things or the reasons 4 their reactions 2 different situations. Neway, that's just my two cent's worth and feel free 2 give me ur opinions whether u agree or disagree coz I REALLY want 2 no wot evry1 else thinks. My e-mail address is
vampire2701@aol.com
 
This is what he said in the new TV Zone magazine.....


"The show was moving in a direction that seemed to hold less and less a place for my character," explains Shanks. "There were a number of conspiracy plots developing and other Earth-based scenarios that were being done in order to flesh out the different aspects of dealing with the Stargate. Admittedly, some of them were very interesting. For instance, the fifth season episode Desperate Measures was actually a particularly good story because of its
X-Files-brand of conspiracy involving Maybourne [Tom McBeath]. In fact, when my girlfriend Lexa [Doig - Rommie of Andromeda fame] and I were watching it I said to her, 'This is a great show. I wish I were on it.' It's like when you watch a really good episode of the X-Files and think, 'Wow, this is a great show. I wish I could guest star on it.' Well, there I was watching Stargate and saying, 'This is an interesting TV show. I wish I was oh, wait a minute, I am on it!' It was one of those moments that were becoming more and more frequent where I'd think, 'I'm spending nine months a year doing this show and at the end of the day I'm really not in it a lot. I'm not getting a chance to challenge myself as an actor.'
"Stargate had become a programme about a military group in a military institution surrounded by all the various aspects and organizations that people in the military might have to deal with. As the sole civilian of the team, other than Teal'c, there wasn't much for Daniel to do. For example, in the fifth season we seemed to revisit many of the same planets we had been to in the fourth year. Being an anthropologist/archeologist Daniel goes to other worlds to meet new races and study new cultures. Instead, we were dealing with old situations and becoming further entrenched in past conflicts. As a result, the archaeological and cultural interests of my character had to take a back seat.
"I actually said to Brad Wright [executive producer] last season. 'You need to have this fourth team member to be a military person, maybe a corporal or lieutenant with a bit of a background in archaeology. This way if you need such expertise this guy's got it. If not, at least you have someone who can pick up a gun and start fighting. It was getting to a point where Daniel was in scenes just to be there, you know, and, frankly, I didn't want to do that any more."
 
As long as MS don't burn the bridges he's crossing, he'll be okay. It's a tad sad that he's lost the team player attitude and that could all be the fault of the writers not spreading the fun around...

Has the man checked on how many fans he has? Sure the funny ones might natter on about how sexy he is, but one way or another they admire the character or they wouldn't be his fan.

Let's get fundamental. Since Entrprise hit the screen bringing back some of the old SF ensemble acting that the ST series is famous for I had turned a blind eye to the 'RDA closeup show' aspects of SG. And I'm one of HIS fans! Now they talk about losing him post-season six/post-movie and doing a spin-off and have done nothing to introduce the SGC of the future. They've killed off/made into a bad guy any of the Red Shirt military they had that would be replacements for SG members! We gotta get introduced to some folks soon or we'll not care that they've been dropped into hot water in place of our regulars!

And I'm sure it's no fun being part of the overworked fab-four! But shoot! Reality check for the once unknown actors, please! Despite what oh poor MS is bleating about, they work their tail ends off those nine months out of the year. Then they get time off, but it's not enough? I'd love that kind of schedule! Are we seeing the cast of SG implode over the rigors of filming in Canada just like the XF cast did? Say it ain't so? MS lives up there! Such a pretty place I fell in love with it!

It could have been that around midseason 6 the writers would have looked around and said 'what do we do now?' and seen that Dr. J was the answer, but now we don't have that option... so now we have this conflict now. They've got a ear to the fans out here commenting on the web. Kree! Hey guys, what do the writers/TPTB/etc. do now?
 
Re: reality check.

I couldn't agree more. MS might want to look at the actor who played Natasha Yar on STNG. She said the same thing he has said: character not going anywhere, etc. Denise Crosby has been seen every now and then, but she's not as well known as she would have been had she remained with STNG. She was very popular then but, face it: she's a lost red shirt now.

As for the spin off, I agree with Cyn. As much as fans want to remain loyal, if the spin off is so different from the original, they will be in the usual position of creating a whole new base of fans. The former fans will not feel obligated to follow along any more.
 
Hi all

MS might want to look at the actor who played Natasha Yar on STNG. She said the same thing he has said: character not going anywhere, etc.

Although I understand all of your points, I think he was smarter than DC because he waited until the last season to actually leave. If indeed this next season will be the last for the gallant SG-1 team, it doesn't seems as bad for him to leave now if he is indeed unhappy.

Don't get me wrong, I'm just as sad as the next person, and I would love for MS to be on for S6. But as far as his leaving, at least it isn't at the start of the series.

Personally, considering the attitude problem HE says he had when the show first started, I commend him for unclinching and sticking with the show.

Said with love, my friends!!! :D

hy-a
 
lene wrote: sulking and bitter about being less of a main character than Sam (i.e. a GIRL) bcoz I think that O'Neill and Carter get more screentime and/or plotlines ( not neccessarily together!) than Danny or Teal'c.

I agree on the sulking bit, but not on the reasons. daniel wasn't less of a main character than sam or jack, as a matter of fact, I think sam and teal'c would definitely deserve some more screentime than they get right now, because both are highly fascinating characters. let me put it this way: you get a job, and you love it. many great deeds to do, nice people to work with. but after a while those parts that made this job so fascinating to you are taken away, and after a while all that's left for you to do is filing or dusting the office lamps. the people you work with are still great, the paycheck is getting fatter, but it's not the same job anymore. now you can stay, despite you're not happy anymore and keep on cashing in the big bucks, or you can leave. the shanks chose the second. considering the chances he won't be seen anywhere on screen so soon again (which is not a valuation of his talent, but a sober look at showbiz), he really traded in nice and secure for an uncertain future. not money wise, as he's a clever businessman, and sure put his peanuts aside, but working wise. and the actors I know go slightly crazy when they can't work. so it was a big step and for sure not easily taken.

cyn wrote: As long as MS don't burn the bridges he's crossing, he'll be okay. It's a tad sad that he's lost the team player attitude and that could all be the fault of the writers not spreading the fun around...

actually I *do* think he's burning at least one bridge right now, and that's the one back on the set of sg-1. as much as I liked his interviews - because I still think they were honest - I'm afraid they didn't really make TPTB grow much fonder with the idea to get him back on the set for guest appearances. which is, mainly, the reason why I didn't get myself actively involved with the "we want daniel back" campaign. as much as I admire people's dedication, enthusiasm and effort (and they are great people, don't get me wrong here!) I can't support it, because I think he's made a mistake with these interviews, or let's say: with the way he's dealing with the reactions on these interviews. the dedication of fans is a power not to be underestimated, it was so obvious that after reading these interviews, his fans would try to do something for him. and after years of doing everything of staying out of the limelight and avoiding every possible attention on his person he sure did have some kind of reaction in mind when he gave those interviews - alas, he should have told them *what* he wants them to do. will writing letters help him? or will it damage the thing even more? we don't know.

cyn wrote: Reality check for the once unknown actors, please! Despite what oh poor MS is bleating about, they work their tail ends off those nine months out of the year. Then they get time off, but it's not enough? I'd love that kind of schedule!

that's what I used to say about teachers - "gee, what a life, with all them holidays!" I didn't see that they were working in "non-school hours" as well. same goes for actors. these three months are not holidays only. just look at teryl rothery, who's got a *very* busy schedule during the hiatus! but let me quote a friend here:

" ... talk about standing in the rain for 6hrs got get 20sec worth of material done. Or being stuck in the mudd for three hours up to your a**. One moment you might be running over a battlefield half an hour later here's a shot of a romantic scene. And while unlike on stage there is no flow in the story told you're wet to your bones cold and hungry still some decent and convincing acting is expected. Does this qualify as being 'demanding'? ..."

though, of course, I agree that we all have our jobs to do, hours to work, families to care for and bundles to carry.

storm wrote: do any of TPTB read here? if the don't, they should!

depends on who qualifies as "TPTB". I think we can take it as a given some of them are really curious cats who want to know what's going on in the fandom. however, I doubt hank cohen is a regular here ... :D

one last thing: from what I can tell, the shanks is a nice bloke. and just that - like everybody else. sometimes a pleasure to have around, sometimes a pain in the neck. he's not perfect, and I don't think he's comfortable with the podestal some folks have put him on. not everything he's doing is ok - because he's human. it wasn't all wine and roses all the time - it never is, nowhere. and it's easy to mix the person he is with the character he plays - mainly because all through the years he let us see nothing of himself, which is his good right, and in regard of some ongoings in the fandom, wise as well.

he knew what he left behind when he left, his decision, for whatever reasons, and I think he should be the one to deal with it now. we all have to carry the consequences of the things we do, and he should be no exception.as he said himself, there's a high chance he might never work again - but he's aware of this.

I'm not convinced by the season 5 episodes I've seen so far and to me, ever since the movie, daniel is the heart and soul of the team, if he's gone, the interaction between the characters won't be the same. I'll give season 6 a chance, but they really gotta come up with good stories and convincing characters if they want me to stay in front of the screen.

the shanks departure and his statements lead to a certain polarisation regarding his person. everybody supporting him got the label "hormonaly challenged fanatic" sticked on the forehead, and everybody who didn't was brandmarked a bad person. as for my position in this controversy: though one should not judge before hearing both sides of the story and knowing all the facts, I do admit that my sympathies are with the shanks rather than with TPTB, simply because I got to kinda like that stubborn sulker over the years.

the doc :blpaw:
 
Some great intellectual comments being made on this thread :) :) Bravo !. I value MS's honesty in his recent interviews, he accepts that fandom will see him as breaking up the team but realistically alot of great teams split (two work colleagues of mine have recently left after 10 years). I don't blame them for leaving - it's their choice and I feel the same about MS's announcement.

I agree with his comments 100%, his character is different to what it was in the earlier seasons - Jackson seems more and more a miltary type of character which fans know is not the "real" him. If we were to compare the scenerio to real-life Daniel would have took the chance to leave when he was exposed to his past history (when he meets up with Sarah and his other colleagues), where he seemed to have re-newed spark for his roots.

It will be a very wierd time when he eventually leaves but I won't stop watching the gate because of it, in some ways it gives the writers new flexibility in the story telling as the team cope with his departure.

As to the methods for his departure - well we all know the stories but I'll reserve judgement until I've actually seen it with my own eyes. That's the fair thing to do.
 
Originally posted by Sphinx
Some great intellectual comments being made on this thread :) :) Bravo !.

It will be a very wierd time when he eventually leaves but I won't stop watching the gate because of it, in some ways it gives the writers new flexibility in the story telling as the team cope with his departure.
It's been my big beef that the writers are not flexable. I bet there are stellar stories that would wow us but the producers approve what we see after all. Considering what I see as undercurrents in season 4, I'd have a beef with the producers! So yeppers. I'm with MS if he's taken the option to have him written out.

What the The Doc says about working the "down time" I sort of forgot. Scripts and oppturnites are only there for a brief time. They don't "pick you" the pick the "someone else" and if the movie makes it big you're kicking yourself and become a footnote in movie history of the "guy they asked before _____"

And absosmurly true about film/tv being kitty wonkus from stage in terms of when and what shoots when and where! It's entrirly possible MS is on the hate swing of the love/hate see-saw of being a performer... It's been hinted he likes stage. More power to him if he loves doing lines front to back 8 performances a week! I've been on the tech side of that for seven years! Boring but consistant work! IMHO.

From personal experience I know the abyss MS is facing as he leaves.
 
Unlike many of the fans, I have enjoyed the character of Daniel Jackson itself; I have no particular need for a specific actor to play the part (no offense to either intended). I like both actors who have played this part equally. I will miss the child-like archaeologist part of the character, and the choices he makes in dealing with the miltary machine. It made for some truly funny scenes!

My only beef with MS is the way he initially began his "interviews," stating season 5 would be the last, etc. etc. He was clearly self-interested, but "playing the game," acting as if he was very concerned for the show (not a game he alone plays in the business, of course).

. . . and I don't really care if TB whomever whatever looks at this site. Like many, many other people, I understand I'm a consumer. They don't have to read my words; I can make my feelings clear, whatever they are, by NOT watching, purchasing, or supporting anything should I so chose. As can anyone else.
 
So . . .

do we need another team member in olive green with a gun, a geek smart guy, or will we get just a pretty face?

Who's next?
 
Originally posted by Texane
My only beef with MS is the way he initially began his "interviews," stating season 5 would be the last, etc. etc. He was clearly self-interested, but "playing the game," acting as if he was very concerned for the show (not a game he alone plays in the business, of course).

well that's the point - it's business - first and before all. we're talking about ratings, commercials, contracts, conditions, money, power. as for michael shanks intentions where his interviews are concerned: if he felt the character and the show drifted in a wrong direction, he should have given these interviews one year ago - *before* making a decision to leave, when there was still time to change something. I think this is more to ensure his part in the possible feature movie. (I used to create such interviews for artists - so I might look at it from a different point of view; an interview can be a very effective weapon. or it can blow in your face).

we will never know what's really been going on. was the shanks really the one who hung up the skates? was it his decision alone, or did he get a little push? too much about this is fishy, and we have no ways to learn the truth. from what I know - and I can be wrong there - it was agreed upon that the shanks tells the fans *himself* he's going to leave. so I was a *little* amazed that brad wright broke the news to people, at gatecon, of all places, with the shanks out of town. the shanks got a lot of hate mail - some of it *really* bad - following this. wouldn't this have been different if he'd explained his departure in his own words ... who'd gotten the hate mail, then? ah well. if I was jessica fletcher, I'd have much fun with this. as somebody who simply enjoys the show, I haven't.

to cover the shanks six: I know he actually *did* care for the characters integrity, and has more than once intervened when he thought a turn in the storyline would be "wrong" for the character of daniel jackson - of course in his own interest, but that's fair enough. it's also normal to "bend" the character and the storyline for the sake of the actor - it's what any actor tries. (rda is no exception: he has some out-of-town business - jack has to go fishing. the baby is on its way: jack has to go to the infirmary. rda is tired of getting his hair dyed: jack's going gray. and so on.)

I agree with you - it's daniel jackson I'll miss, not michael shanks. I never think "oh, that's the shanks" or "here comes james spader" when I watch stargate, I think "oh, here goes daniel". the things daniel *stands* for are essential to me, made me an afficionado of this tv show which I deeply resented in the beginning because there was just too much khaki, guns and army for my taste. I didn't like daniel waving a gun. still don't like it. he's an archeologist, dang! but to me, daniel jackson is either james spader or michael shanks. maybe I'd grow to like a similar charcter like daniel, but I doubt it. dunno - I'm not sure I wanted to see a feature movie without daniel.

the doc :blpaw:
 
I also don't enjoy the idea of no movie without some level, real world character like Daniel in it. And since we've been spoiled by various Net sites to the way Daniel is theorized to be written out, I'm not enjoying the idea of Daniel evolving back from "the dead" and just being included in the movie. More "normal" ways of writing him out like as was put forth in this thread where he rediscovers his peers and his moral stance would have worked for me. Why can't SG-1 be normal once in a while?! I'd then totally accept Daniel rushing back to help his old team out of a movie-sized situation. THAT would make a fine scene, too! Instead it's more X-files plots? Somebody in TPTB wants to burn the reality bridge behind MS for speaking out?

I totally agree with the comment of how things broke at Gatecon. Not that it wouldn't be the time or place for such a thing, but maybe Wright misjudged what people were clinging to in the light of the terrible things going on in the world just a week before the Gatecon. They were clinging to STARGATE SG-1 and the incredible chalanges and happy endings we get every week. Yes, it was on the last day, yes it was a back to reality shock, but science fiction can be what people hold on to when the going in real life gets tough. The announcement could have kept warm a few weeks. I doubt those guys on the panel understood that. The last thing we wanted was a slam to the good feelings we'd scraped together to hold on to while we flew home.
 
Sorry, Doc. I'm not buying the "MS is the poor, badly-treated good guy" bit. I do agree that business is business. The best of luck in business to the SciFi Channel, which now hosts both Farscape and Stargate.
 
Originally posted by Texane
Sorry, Doc. I'm not buying the "MS is the poor, badly-treated good guy" bit.

I don't think that's the picture I wanted to sell ... I don't see him that way, either.

all I say is: the shanks and tptb are playing chess, and I am a little reluctant about the perspective the fans could get the position of pawns. :erm:

the doc :blpaw:
 
Michael Shanks leaving

You know it appears that some fans really hate MS. I don't know anything about him, I just love Daniel.

And all those Jack and Sam fans out there, the show will lose a lot without Daniel. As the civilian Daniel injected a very needed difference/ambience/view to SG1 and the whole SGC. Having all SG1 military would deprive the show/team of Daniel's invaluable contributions. Yes woman Sam follows Jack blindly. And so does Teal'c. Remember the Other Side? And her confidence in her scientific skills dims her ability to see the big picture. Like in Red Sky, just because she could bypass the protols that the Asgard had put on that protected planet, she did, without stoping to think about the possible consequences.

They need Daniel. I for on think that the show will be much more boring without him. All military? That's not what made SG1 great. Besides, it was the civilian, remember? who opened the gate, not Ms. Carter. And not only that, he was the only who was able to deduct that the stars could have drifted in all those thousands of years and that it could be adjusted to fit the charts he found in Abydos. Ms Carter, the brilliant physic, couldn't deduct that.

Daniel is their conscience and their voice. Since the show has emphasized so much the conspirancy theories it has become another "blame the US government conspirators for everything alo X-Files". It has lost the wonder and thrill of discovery and knowledge of the early times.

Mr. Shanks is in his perfectly legitimage right to leave if he feels his character has evolved for the worse. And I knew this would happen once they injected the Romantic angle Jack/Sam. Which by the way, is entirely wrong. It puts Sam's promitions/status in jeopardy if her DIRECT CEO has feelings for her. It is totally wrong. That's why there are rules against it. You ask any military person (I have) about this situation. No way.
 
Originally posted by TheDoc
all I say is: the shanks and tptb are playing chess, and I am a little reluctant about the perspective the fans could get the position of pawns. :erm:
That we definitely agree on.:evil:
 
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