6.16: Hell's Bells
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Highlander II
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well --- i wasn't terribly impressed, but i wasn't really disappointed either --
Spike's date was something of a let-down - i mean, i knew he was bringing someone 'unusual' - but i dunno - not much imagination seemed to have been put into her -- however, Spike never remembering her name was funny -
Halfrek pushing Dawn to make a wish was a bit much - why was she doing that? bored?
and why was no one concerned about the 'present that got away' - esp since no one had any idea what it was? (don't ya love it when they introduce 'problems' that never get solved?)
and Xander -- is this supposed to hint toward him pining after Buffy? i mean - we all know that he had a thing for Buffy way back in seasons 1 and 2 (and maybe 3 or some of 3) - so - does all this 'hinting' suggest a potential Buffy - Xander relationship? b/c let me just say ---> "poor Willow" -- she's been in love w/ Xander for how long now? since, what? kindergarten? earlier? - and she's already been thwarted twice - Cordelia and Anya, well, and if you wanna count Xander's 'fling' w/ Faith - it's 3 -- tack Buffy on -- isn't (wasn't) that's Willow's greatest fear? that Xander would 'run off' with Buffy? then that would be a double betrayal to Willow - by her 2 best friends ---
or, am i totally overanalyzing this? (which i'm known to do)
Spike's date was something of a let-down - i mean, i knew he was bringing someone 'unusual' - but i dunno - not much imagination seemed to have been put into her -- however, Spike never remembering her name was funny -
Halfrek pushing Dawn to make a wish was a bit much - why was she doing that? bored?
and why was no one concerned about the 'present that got away' - esp since no one had any idea what it was? (don't ya love it when they introduce 'problems' that never get solved?)
and Xander -- is this supposed to hint toward him pining after Buffy? i mean - we all know that he had a thing for Buffy way back in seasons 1 and 2 (and maybe 3 or some of 3) - so - does all this 'hinting' suggest a potential Buffy - Xander relationship? b/c let me just say ---> "poor Willow" -- she's been in love w/ Xander for how long now? since, what? kindergarten? earlier? - and she's already been thwarted twice - Cordelia and Anya, well, and if you wanna count Xander's 'fling' w/ Faith - it's 3 -- tack Buffy on -- isn't (wasn't) that's Willow's greatest fear? that Xander would 'run off' with Buffy? then that would be a double betrayal to Willow - by her 2 best friends ---
or, am i totally overanalyzing this? (which i'm known to do)
There was one thing in the episode that got my attention. Spike entered the church in broad daylight and yet there was no indication that he was on fire nor was his coat even smoking. Then, he left without covering his head with the long coat. Why wasn't his coat on fire coming in and he wasn't concerned when he left? Did I miss something?
Highlander II
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good point ---
another of those 'gloss overs' that they do ---
tho - there was an entry way -- 2 sets of doors into the building - so there IS a possibility that he came in somewhere else, and not from outside --
but - they probably just forgot ------- and figured we wouldn't notice --- oopps!! fans ALWAYS notice!
another of those 'gloss overs' that they do ---
tho - there was an entry way -- 2 sets of doors into the building - so there IS a possibility that he came in somewhere else, and not from outside --
but - they probably just forgot ------- and figured we wouldn't notice --- oopps!! fans ALWAYS notice!
Mysterious Stranger
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Now I don't want to get off on a rant here but...
In answer to your Spike question, if you remember it was raining during the whole ceremony so that would mean it was cloudy and since we've seen vamps out during the day but not in direct sunlight that would explain the lack of flames during his entrance.
As for the rest of the show, I was almost brought to tears when Xander walked out at the end. Nicholas has really turned into a great actor during the run of the show and continues to show more and more depth to Xander every season.
I do agree that maybe this is a little foreshadowing to a possible Xander / Buffy romance. Willow is no longer an issue (what with the being gay and all) and I don't think Anya is going to be a mortal human for long.
So we'll see what happens. Can't wait for next weeks "Cuckoo's Nest" / Twilight Zone eppy. Just when you think Joss can't make things more interesting he does.
Later...!!!
In answer to your Spike question, if you remember it was raining during the whole ceremony so that would mean it was cloudy and since we've seen vamps out during the day but not in direct sunlight that would explain the lack of flames during his entrance.
As for the rest of the show, I was almost brought to tears when Xander walked out at the end. Nicholas has really turned into a great actor during the run of the show and continues to show more and more depth to Xander every season.
I do agree that maybe this is a little foreshadowing to a possible Xander / Buffy romance. Willow is no longer an issue (what with the being gay and all) and I don't think Anya is going to be a mortal human for long.
So we'll see what happens. Can't wait for next weeks "Cuckoo's Nest" / Twilight Zone eppy. Just when you think Joss can't make things more interesting he does.
Later...!!!
Highlander II
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i actually have one more question ---
why was Spike even at the wedding? why was he invited? Xander hates him and Anya - don't think she likes him much - so how did he get an invite??
he didn't crash, b/c no one seemed surprised that he was there - just that he'd brought a 'date' --
and - i forgot about the rain --- but that would explain the lack of flames ----
why was Spike even at the wedding? why was he invited? Xander hates him and Anya - don't think she likes him much - so how did he get an invite??
he didn't crash, b/c no one seemed surprised that he was there - just that he'd brought a 'date' --
and - i forgot about the rain --- but that would explain the lack of flames ----
Thanks for the explanation on Spike's entrance in the daytime.
I think I know the answer to the other question. Vampires only need invites into private homes, not public places (unless the person who lives in the home is already dead). Since the wedding was being held in a public place, not Buffy's home or anyone else's home, Spike could walk in any time he wants.
I think I know the answer to the other question. Vampires only need invites into private homes, not public places (unless the person who lives in the home is already dead). Since the wedding was being held in a public place, not Buffy's home or anyone else's home, Spike could walk in any time he wants.
Mysterious Stranger
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Now I don't want to get off on a rant here but...
Since when does Spike get permission to do anything? I don't think he was formally invited to the wedding but just showed up anyway. Besides, with the chip in his head still he's not dangerous so there's really no point in kicking him out except maybe the humilliation factor. And I don't think anyone wanted to make the day about "why is Spike here" and keep it about Xander & Anya. Plus they had their hands full with the invited guests without having to worry about party crashers.
Since when does Spike get permission to do anything? I don't think he was formally invited to the wedding but just showed up anyway. Besides, with the chip in his head still he's not dangerous so there's really no point in kicking him out except maybe the humilliation factor. And I don't think anyone wanted to make the day about "why is Spike here" and keep it about Xander & Anya. Plus they had their hands full with the invited guests without having to worry about party crashers.
Highlander II
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on the 'invites' - i was referring to him being formally invited to the wedding - he can enter the building whenever he wants --
but -- i want to know why he even WENT to the wedding - my guess would be that he went - specifically w/ a date - to bug Buffy - totally get that -- but he doesn't even like Anya and/or Xander - so why would he care about the wedding? (except that James is in the credits and, therefore, must show up in every episode) -- there was no real 'reason' for him to be there - he was just there ---
i like explanation and backstory - there needs to be a reason for him to be there - and sometimes we need the writers et al. to TELL us --
i just want to know why he even would want to go - weddings don't seem like a 'Spike' ocassion -- esp knowing that all the Scoobies that he hates so much would be there - okay - maybe he wanted to torment them, but, like i said, no one seemed surprised that he was there - like he had received an invitation like the rest of the guests -
would they worry about throwing him out? nah - not worth the trouble, but a comment like 'Spike, what are you doing here?' would have helped -- but they didn't do that --
it's a plot hole -- not a big one - but it's a hole --
but -- i want to know why he even WENT to the wedding - my guess would be that he went - specifically w/ a date - to bug Buffy - totally get that -- but he doesn't even like Anya and/or Xander - so why would he care about the wedding? (except that James is in the credits and, therefore, must show up in every episode) -- there was no real 'reason' for him to be there - he was just there ---
i like explanation and backstory - there needs to be a reason for him to be there - and sometimes we need the writers et al. to TELL us --
i just want to know why he even would want to go - weddings don't seem like a 'Spike' ocassion -- esp knowing that all the Scoobies that he hates so much would be there - okay - maybe he wanted to torment them, but, like i said, no one seemed surprised that he was there - like he had received an invitation like the rest of the guests -
would they worry about throwing him out? nah - not worth the trouble, but a comment like 'Spike, what are you doing here?' would have helped -- but they didn't do that --
it's a plot hole -- not a big one - but it's a hole --
Mysterious Stranger
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Now I don't want to get off on a rant here but...
I agree that they should have explained Spike's appearance, but I think that anyone who has followed the show this season would know that he was there to make Buffy jealous. She seems to be his only reason for being on the show this season. Every time he rears his bleached blonde head he's looking to shag the Buffster. It would make since that after she "dumped" him he would want to make her jealous. That's just the way he is.
As for the gift that got away, I think it will end up being one of those things that comes back to haunt us in a few episodes. You know, one of those creatures that eats and multiplies and lays waste to everything in it's path. Kinda like demonic locusts.
We'll see...
I agree that they should have explained Spike's appearance, but I think that anyone who has followed the show this season would know that he was there to make Buffy jealous. She seems to be his only reason for being on the show this season. Every time he rears his bleached blonde head he's looking to shag the Buffster. It would make since that after she "dumped" him he would want to make her jealous. That's just the way he is.
As for the gift that got away, I think it will end up being one of those things that comes back to haunt us in a few episodes. You know, one of those creatures that eats and multiplies and lays waste to everything in it's path. Kinda like demonic locusts.
We'll see...
Re: Now I don't want to get off on a rant here but...
[Mysterious Stranger: I agree that they should have explained Spike's appearance...]
Yeah, at first I didn't care, but y'all have now got it bothering me. I don't know, I guess I just assumed that he was an honorary member of "the gang", having worked with them so closely to fight evil before Buffy's return and still an ally of sorts. He just kinda shows up wherever Buffy is and I think they all just assume that now.
But what about Clem, the wrinkly demon??? Is he an old friend of Anya's? Did he get an invite at the Birthday party and I just don't remember it?
[Mysterious Stranger: As for the gift that got away, I think it will end up being one of those things that comes back to haunt us in a few episodes.]
Well, there's only six more episodes to go. But I like the idea. Maybe they can do something with it next season when everyone will slap their foreheads and say, "Oh, I had forgot about that thing escaping."
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One more thing - I think Willow was right, she should have worn a tux, it would have been much more classy and sexy.
[Mysterious Stranger: I agree that they should have explained Spike's appearance...]
Yeah, at first I didn't care, but y'all have now got it bothering me. I don't know, I guess I just assumed that he was an honorary member of "the gang", having worked with them so closely to fight evil before Buffy's return and still an ally of sorts. He just kinda shows up wherever Buffy is and I think they all just assume that now.
But what about Clem, the wrinkly demon??? Is he an old friend of Anya's? Did he get an invite at the Birthday party and I just don't remember it?
[Mysterious Stranger: As for the gift that got away, I think it will end up being one of those things that comes back to haunt us in a few episodes.]
Well, there's only six more episodes to go. But I like the idea. Maybe they can do something with it next season when everyone will slap their foreheads and say, "Oh, I had forgot about that thing escaping."
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One more thing - I think Willow was right, she should have worn a tux, it would have been much more classy and sexy.
Highlander II
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hehehe -- got a knack for bringing up buggin' stuff eh? hehe --
sorry - i watch all the eps like 2x's - and on the 2nd pass, i usually pick up something that really bugs me - ie: Spike's jewelry being wrong in "Dead Things" and his 'non-descript' invite to the wedding --
i still wanna know why he was there --- sure - w/ Buffy being gone he helped 'em out - but they still don't trust him --- so why would they want him to come?
now - i mean if they had just thrown out a line that said something to the effect of 'we invited him so he *wouldn't* crash the wedding' - that would have been fine - i mean 1 line can make a difference -- esp since no one seemed surprised to see him there --
i know he's been pining after Buffy and he was there to make her jealous, but, for me, that's not enough -- i don't want to have to assume that he's just supposed to be there -- remember, i'm the one who gets annoyed when characters show up for no reason and don't get used properly ---
and Klem -- yeah - why was he there? i guess he might have gotten an invite at the b-day party - but i've watched that ep 3 times and have yet to see anything about it there --
okay - one more question -- are we to believe that Halfrek and Spike/William didn't 'bump' into each other the whole time both were there?
i hate loose ends ----- that and i just wanna see those two interact - i think it would be a great scene - or episode ----
Highlander II
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Re: Re: Now I don't want to get off on a rant here but...
yeah - i agree -- it would have been different -- would have added to the episode -- i was so distracted by those ugly green dresses -- i don't think they would have made Anya stand out as the bride -- they were too extravagant --
yeah - i agree -- it would have been different -- would have added to the episode -- i was so distracted by those ugly green dresses -- i don't think they would have made Anya stand out as the bride -- they were too extravagant --
Okay, it's obvious that Spike and Xander don't like each other. But I remember an episode where Spike and Anya were talking about how they took it for granted when they could kill (him w/o the chip, her when she was a vengeance demon). I thought they were finding a common ground. She took it for granted that she had all of these powers and then "poof" they both lost their killing power. Spike said he wished that he had "stopped and smelled the corpses." I thought in their own bizarre way they were bonding in that episode. I think that was last season.
And maybe another reason Spike came was not only to bug Buffy with his date, but I would imagine that vampires don't go to many nonviolent social events. Maybe he was curious about the wedding between an ex-vengeance demon and a human. Or maybe he was looking for something exciting to happen there with the family and friends of the bride versus the family and friends of the groom. It's just a thought.
Oh, I almost forgot. I think Willow looked much better in the dress than she would in a tuxedo. I don't care too much to see women dressed in men's formal attire. It's just not attractive to me.
And maybe another reason Spike came was not only to bug Buffy with his date, but I would imagine that vampires don't go to many nonviolent social events. Maybe he was curious about the wedding between an ex-vengeance demon and a human. Or maybe he was looking for something exciting to happen there with the family and friends of the bride versus the family and friends of the groom. It's just a thought.
Oh, I almost forgot. I think Willow looked much better in the dress than she would in a tuxedo. I don't care too much to see women dressed in men's formal attire. It's just not attractive to me.
Highlander II
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Finding a common ground and becoming friends enough to be invited to the other's wedding are different -- Spike and Xander had a 'civil' conversation once too - bitching to each other about women and such, but I don't think they became friends - they were just 'sharing' similar experiences. That's kind of how I saw the scene btwn Anya and Spike - 'sharing' --
"Maybes" - that's my point - there are too many 'maybe Spike came to the wedding b/c….' --
why were we not told why he was there?
My guess is, b/c the real reason he shows is b/c James Marsters has to be in every episode b/c he's in the opening credits - he's paid to be there -- what gets me is that Amber Benson is a GUEST STAR and gets more airtime than James - what is UP? (yes, this really bothers me - the same thing happens w/ Dawn) --
so - that's the rant again - the 'underuse of characters' thing (i may have to find a new rant) --
i just happen to be the kind of person who likes to know 'why' things are done --- Spike didn't show up just to show up - he had to have a reason - he wasn't crashing the wedding - that's clear - if he had been there would have been more of a 'shocked' reaction from Dawn when she saw him - she was only surprised by his choice of 'date' --- no one was surprised he was there, just that he brought the skanky goth chic along --
i would, however, buy that they consciously decided NOT to invite him, KNOWING he would do the opposite of what they 'asked' and show up -- b/c if they didn't want him there, they would have sent him an invitation, knowing he wouldn't show -- (which could have been truly funny) -- but we're not told any of this - and it kinda gets on my nerves --- i don't wanna guess - i wanna know -
"Maybes" - that's my point - there are too many 'maybe Spike came to the wedding b/c….' --
why were we not told why he was there?
My guess is, b/c the real reason he shows is b/c James Marsters has to be in every episode b/c he's in the opening credits - he's paid to be there -- what gets me is that Amber Benson is a GUEST STAR and gets more airtime than James - what is UP? (yes, this really bothers me - the same thing happens w/ Dawn) --
so - that's the rant again - the 'underuse of characters' thing (i may have to find a new rant) --
i just happen to be the kind of person who likes to know 'why' things are done --- Spike didn't show up just to show up - he had to have a reason - he wasn't crashing the wedding - that's clear - if he had been there would have been more of a 'shocked' reaction from Dawn when she saw him - she was only surprised by his choice of 'date' --- no one was surprised he was there, just that he brought the skanky goth chic along --
i would, however, buy that they consciously decided NOT to invite him, KNOWING he would do the opposite of what they 'asked' and show up -- b/c if they didn't want him there, they would have sent him an invitation, knowing he wouldn't show -- (which could have been truly funny) -- but we're not told any of this - and it kinda gets on my nerves --- i don't wanna guess - i wanna know -
A while ago I posted this in the Anya character forum:
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How about picking up on our thread here that Xander is with Anya because he subconsciously likes abusive women, due to his unhappy upbringing?
And Anya sure fits the bill of an abusive woman. Can you imagine them twenty years from now with two tiny screaming demons to feed and her nagging him about how he could have been bigger than the Slayer if he wasn't such a loser?
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What can I say - I just about got that one right, with some minor changes (one screaming demon-girl, one sullen human-boy.)
BTW, since I only posted this in the Spoiler Country, I will now post two things here, for those that avoid Spoiler Country.
The bridesmaid outfits...
Sarah, Future-Xander & Anya's little half-demon daughter
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How about picking up on our thread here that Xander is with Anya because he subconsciously likes abusive women, due to his unhappy upbringing?
And Anya sure fits the bill of an abusive woman. Can you imagine them twenty years from now with two tiny screaming demons to feed and her nagging him about how he could have been bigger than the Slayer if he wasn't such a loser?
---------------------------------------------------------
What can I say - I just about got that one right, with some minor changes (one screaming demon-girl, one sullen human-boy.)
BTW, since I only posted this in the Spoiler Country, I will now post two things here, for those that avoid Spoiler Country.
The bridesmaid outfits...
Sarah, Future-Xander & Anya's little half-demon daughter
I just think that Xander has a problem with Anya being ex-demon - he's always so judgemental - and he was obviously never going to be reconciled with her past. Just to clarify a point, cos I missed the end, but those visions were false weren't they? So Xander was just giving into his prejudices.
Annette
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Pretty good episode. Hated those dresses. What was Anya thinking?
Felt sorry for Xander tho. He may have had a glimpse into the future but don't think he would have gone thru with it anyway.
Enjoyed the 'fighting', What a laugh!!!!! Buffy trying to keep the peace by juggling and not succeeding much. Loved the guy 'with the skin problem'. Resembled a dog more than anything to me.
annette
Felt sorry for Xander tho. He may have had a glimpse into the future but don't think he would have gone thru with it anyway.
Enjoyed the 'fighting', What a laugh!!!!! Buffy trying to keep the peace by juggling and not succeeding much. Loved the guy 'with the skin problem'. Resembled a dog more than anything to me.
annette
Highlander II
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yeah - the visions were fake - so, Xander was giving into whatever he was giving into - prejudices, fear, apprehension - whatever -
the episode was okay -- if i were to rate it, i'd give it about a 6/10 - it didn't really hold my interest much - there have been better episodes this season --
that and the 'at the last minute they don't actually get married' is really cliche and happens too often --
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