Was Q aware of the Caretaker?

[Neo]

In the ep. 'Deathwish,' Q (J. DeLancie) said that humans were not supposed to be in the Delta Quadrant for another hundred years, so it left me thinking, how come Q didn't know about the Caretaker? Because he(Q)did say he has been everywhere in the universe, so he should've been aware of the presence of the 'Sporisistient lifeform.'

 

[Shaun]

I'm pretty sure Q knows most of the things in the galaxy...

When he meant humans weren't suppose to be there, he did mean naturally, and the Caretaker wasn't natural.

Best I can offer is that if you traveled the world 10 years ago and then travelled it today, things would be different. In "Death Wish", everyone had done everything millenia ago, which might include exploring. Does that make sense?

 

[Neo]

Interesting point Shaun..

 

[Dave]

Only problem is that humans were already in the Delta Quadrant 10 years before -- the USS Equinox was already there.

Plus, assorted Klingons and Ferengi, and Earth probes.

 

[stuartmecham]

and my dog called Pat.

:alienooh: :alienooh: :alienooh: :alienooh: :alienooh:

Sorry could not stop my self

 

[janeways7]

Originally posted by Dave
Only problem is that humans were already in the Delta Quadrant 10 years before -- the USS Equinox was already there.

Plus, assorted Klingons and Ferengi, and Earth probes.

Actually Dave, Humans were there over 400 years earlier, when Amelia Earheart and other humans were abducted by aliens and transported there, as seen in 'The 37's'.

I think what Q meant by "human's weren't supposed to be here for another hundreds years", he mean't 'exploration' and 'colonisation' wise, but due to the Caretaker's involvement, this changed dramatically.

Also, in regards to the starship Equinox..what a humongous continuity-error on part of writers Brannon Braga and Joe Menosky, for one, just the fact that the Equinox is in the viscinity of the Badlands to be able to be whisked away by the Caretaker is quite unbelievable, as the ship was only a "science" vessel, and due to the Cardassian's major presence in the area of the Badlands, it would seem to be a high tactical mistake by Starfleet to send a science vessel with little weapons and minimum warp-propulsion near the Badlands.

Also, are we really expected to believe that the Equinox arrived before Voyager in the Delta Quadrant? (it was impossible for them to arrive after, as the Array was destroyed the Caretaker dead). For one, how the hell did Ransom know about the Caretaker? The only reason Janeway and Co. knew about him was because of their relations with the Ocampans, Kes and trying to find a way home. Are we really expected to believe that the Equinox crew spoke to the Caretaker or the Ocampans(this is the only way they could have known about the Caretaker) and the Caretaker or the Ocampa didn't mention the Equinox crew to the Voyager at all when they were also pulled through the Badlands?

Not to mention the fact that the Equinox crew never ran into the Kazon or the Vidiians while travelling home - and that they were actually ahead of Voyager(which is clearly in error since by the end of start of Season Six Voyager had already taken over 20 light years off of their journey home, much less than how much the Equinox crew took off when they used the alien compound as "fuel".)

Oops.. sorry for running off track with that one.. hehehehe.

 

[ray gower]

Welcome to Ascifi, Janeways7!

I think you have made some interesting points. There are some major imponderables with this episode. However I think we can take issue with some.

I don't think the Equinox steaming around the Badlands is so far fetched. The area is supposed to be a little cramped for a bigger warship. And a small research vessel is much less likely to be interfered with by a suspicious race. Of course there were the Maqui, who probably wouldn't care!

The Caretaker did mention he had brought others from the Alpha Quadrant, but had not found a use for them. The fact they aren't mentioned elsewhere is more of a factor of they had never got back. Like TNG's first meeting with the Borg.

As for the Kazon, perhaps they had not arrived in strength? They appeared to be a gipsey race, so any build up would take time.

Considering that Voyager had only just met the race that introduced Ransome to his 'fuel'. How did she catch up with Equinox?
Even if Equinox had only had the technology for a couple of months, wouldn't she be hundreds of light years away?
We are of course ignoring that Voyager stumbling across Equinox is almost impossible. Both were on totally different courses (Voyager was specifically on a Borg enhanced one), had met differing races and because the universe moves, started from different literal places.

 

[janeways7]

Thanks for the welcome ray,

Regarding Equinox again.. Equinox was "supposadly" brought over by the Caretaker into the Delta Quadrant, wouldn't it have gone the most easiest route back to the Alpha Quadrant? There can't be several different 'courses' to home, because it would make Janeway look awfully stupid that she chooses the 'course' that takes her through The Borg, the Kazon, the Vidiians, the Krenim and the Hirogen etc.

Apparently the Equinox was spared two years worth of Kazon-hair days; the question is how? If Rudy Ransom was telling the truth about being brought to the Delta Quadrant by the Caretaker, and there's no reason to think that he was lying about that, how could the Equinox's first alien encounter have been with the "Krowtonan Guard," in their first week in the Delta Quadrant? How could the Equinox have run across an entirely different set of species than Voyager did, when they started at the same point and are heading toward the same point, particularly in the first two or three years when neither ship was making large jumps?

 

[ray gower]

The number of 'Correct' course home would be almost infinite, if you think about it. All the solar systems are spining, not only on their own axis, but in relation to their position in the galaxy. Complicate it more by the galaxy rotating and everything traveling in different speeds in relation with each other, the ten year gap between Equinox and Voyager would mean a difference in course that would span hundreds of light years.

As I've already observed Voyager was already following a 'new and improved' course, that would take ten years off of their journey. So there are other unexplained factors at work than simple three dimensional mathematics, again Voyager only benefited because of 7o9's advanced Astrometrics lab. There is no way Equinox could have used this.

This beggars the mathematics of how Equinox, a far slower ship, had got so far. Or perhaps they had gone the right way and Voyager had been taking the Cook's tour?

 

[janeways7]

Just curious, where did you get this "10 years" thing from? It was never really stated how long exactly the equinox was stranded in the Delta Quadrant, even so, it is a very up to date science vessel, despite it only having a maximum of Warp-6, hardly a ship that is "10 years old."

 

[ray gower]

It was quoted in the episode

 

[janeways7]

Hmmm..I don't think so, I watched it just last night and just checked DeltaBlues, Jim Wright does some comprehensive reviews of Voyager that features all the dialogue and scenes from each episode.

The exact time the Equinox was in the Delta Quadrant was never stated, nor was the exact date time they were kidnapped by the Caretaker.

The only statement made that was even close to '10 years' was that the alien compound allowed the equinox to travel over 10 000 light years in a matter of two weeks.

 

[ray gower]

I'm sure it was!

Okay, though your own quote makes it even worse. Equinox travelled 10,000 light years in circles!

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by janeways7
Actually Dave, Humans were there over 400 years earlier, when Amelia Earheart and other humans were abducted by aliens and transported there, as seen in 'The 37's'.

Also, in regards to the starship Equinox..what a humongous continuity-error on part of writers Brannon Braga and Joe Menosky, for one, just the fact that the Equinox is in the viscinity of the Badlands to be able to be whisked away by the Caretaker is quite unbelievable, as the ship was only a "science" vessel, and due to the Cardassian's major presence in the area of the Badlands, it would seem to be a high tactical mistake by Starfleet to send a science vessel with little weapons and minimum warp-propulsion near the Badlands.

Thanks for correcting me, I forgot about Amelia Earheart.

Your point about the Badlands, I hadn't considered before either. If the 'Equinox' had been transported 10 years earlier (I'm not joining your arguement because I have no idea where the 10 years came from) then it was before the Maquis existed, before the Cardassian--Federation treaty was signed, and while it was still Cardassian territory, not a demiliatrised zone.

That episode seems to have more holes in it than I thought.

They certainly had to be transported to the Delta Quadrant before Voyager destroyed the array, and they would have to set off in the same general direction, begining in Kazon space, and crossing through Borg space. They may have passed through them more quickly, but couldn't have avoided them entirely.

 

[ray gower]

Don't see how they could have passed through quicker. The Equinox had a much slower cruising speed than Voyager. They could not have had the aliens for fuel at that time:
a/ Voyager had only just met the aliens that introduced the Equinox to the 'fuel'.
b/ If they had it before, they would be so far ahead Voyager could not catch up.

Easier to say that as part of the series- It does not fit into the timeline. Alternate Universes?

 

[janeways7]

I would agree that maybe alternative universes may of been invlved, but apart from the timing, there seems to be no evidence of it(unlike 'Timeless' and 'EndGame', where there is strong evidence that the futures we saw were not just alternative timelines, but also alternative universes.)

Ransom did mention they did find a wormhole that took a few years off of their journey - (I guess it all depends on when the Equinox was kidnapped by the caretaker), which may of explained why they were up to the same speed as Voyager(even though they only had Warp-6 before using the alien compound.)

If anything, when you think about it..and I'm sorry to diagree with you here, but they should have been on the same course as Voyager, I don't believe there are several hundred different course you could go on to get back to the Alpha Quadrant, I believe there were only two:

1) Across the Hirogen relay network - which would have taken them into the Beta Quadrant first, then onto the Alpha Qudrant.

2) Janeway's course - which is you look carefully, would have taken them through the outskirts of the Gamma Quadrant, then to the Alpha Quadrant(which would have also added a few thousand light years to get home).

This is a thing the Voyager writers chose to ignore, and they screwed up royally - either way, Voyager couldn't just go from the Delta Quadrant to the Alpha Quadrant - they had to pass through the Gamma or the Beta Quadrants.

And Janeway chose the long course - she should have actually chosen to go across the Hirogen relay station in 'Hunters' - because in the end it was very close to the Beta Quadrant - which is closer to the Alpha Quadrant.