2.23: Regeneration

[mordy]

Borg in Enterprise series ?

Just woundering if anyone thinks if the'll introduce the Borg or aliens alike in the new Enterprise Series, i know they whernt in 'TOS' but in First Contact the borg who time traveled back to the 21st centry where trying to contact the borg in that time line

 

[Tabitha]

Oh that's a good point - the events of First Contact would alter the timeline in some ways wouldn't they?

I seriously doubt we will see the Borg at all in Enterprise, though. The heat the writers would end up taking (even if they had a good explanation) would probably be phenomenal!

 

[Dave]

Originally posted by Tabitha
The heat the writers would end up taking (even if they had a good explanation) would probably be phenomenal!

Too true! We had the Ferengi, though they explained that by not finding out who they were, but the Borg would be crossing the line.

In 'First Contact' the Borg went back and attacked Earth, but after the USS Enterprise also went back, the Timeline was changed back again to it's original course (it's "normal" flow.)

Three alternate Timelines must have been created:

a) the original one -- no Borg.
b) Borg rule Earth -- "Captain, I've scanned the planet. The atmosphere contains a high concentration of methane, carbon monoxide and fluorine. The oceans have been chemically altered, as well... Life signs? ... Population... thirty-five billion... All Borg!"
c) a new one -- where the Enterprise helps Zephram Cochrane.

So, I don't think anyone on Earth at that time would be aware of the Borg.

 

[Neo]

i do hope they dont... We have had nough of the borg by the time janeway had finished with them

Lets see some new aliens or more about the Romulans

 

[mordy]

Borg in Enterprise Series

Hate to Burst anyones Bubble but...

this was taken from trektoday.com

***WARNING SPOILERS******


Paramount Pictures yesterday released information on Enterprise's upcoming Borg episode, "Regeneration", which was first revealed by TrekToday last month (story).

StarTrek.com posted the below synopsis of the episode, which is currently scheduled to air on May 7:


An arctic research team on Earth discovers debris from an alien vessel, nearly a century old, buried in a glacier along with the bodies of two cybernetically enhanced humanoids. Once those beings are thawed for investigation, they come to life and abduct the scientists and their transport vessel. Enterprise is called to intercept, but Captain Archer and his crew find these cyborgs to be an intractable, insidious enemy.

on a Side note i am surprised they managed to fit the borg into Enterprise since they where never encountered in TOS, first Apperance was in TNG as far as i know so alot of diehard trek fans will be disaponted, as for me well i couldn't care eitherway because i like startrek but not enough to get disapointed with the series...

what does everyone else think of this ?

 

[Dave]

The Borg on Enterprise is something I would never have thought possible personally, but this post on the Brannon Braga forum convinced me otherwise:

http://www.geckotech.com/Forums/Default.asp?sub=show&action=posts&fid=4&tid=4991

So, I guess it is theoretically possible. But is it wise? That's a completely different matter!

I always liked the Borg being a TNG foe, but Voyager changed that, and ruined them too, IMHO.

edit: Maybe 'Future Guy' is a Borg!

 

[Dru]

*frowns* I think the writers are on drugs....this is so lame! I mean back of TNG the Borg were this scary big bad guys. But then Voyager ruined the borg forever. The bad guys just don't stay scary when you see them every week getting there asses kicked by the humans. Then bring in 7of9 and the borg become a joke.

And I mean having Ferengi where at least most of the crew never saw them and they never know who they were other then big eared aliens.

But the Borg?!? The Enterprize (TNG one) were shocked and scared out of there wits the first time Q showed them to the Borg. There was so no clue that anyone had seen anything like them before!

 

[Dave]

I've changed this thread title to the episode, due to the fact that it is now spoiler ridden.

I realise that that is no ones fault, it began as pure speculation, and kudos are due to Mordy for the idea. Maybe Brannon Braga really does read this stuff here?

It looks like the the wreckage is really meant to be the Borg Sphere from 'First Contact' just as Mordy speculated they could use.

from trekweb via mediaverse
...the twenty-third episode of the season will open in Earth's Arctic Circle, where the fragments of a crashed Borg Sphere are uncovered by three human scientists.
Doctors Drake, Rooney and Moninger recover two Borg drones from the debris and begin examining them at their lab after informing Starfleet of the find. As they study the corpses, a metallurgical scan reveals that the crash occurred nearly a century earlier--could the fragment be a remnant of the sphere shot down in FIRST CONTACT? Further study leads to the revelation of the Borg's ability to regenerate with nanotechnology, which we learn only the Denobulans have experimented with in this time period.

As they continue to research the site, their curiosity gets the better of them when the drone they're studying comes to life and assimilates Doctor Moninger. Starfleet loses contact with the team and orders an armed shuttle to investigate...

edit: This has even more detail:

from StarTrekUK
The episode opens when three researchers on Earth discover the debris of a crashed vessel in the Arctic Circle. We later learn that this is a Borg Sphere that crashed almost a century ago. As the researchers are salvaging the craft, they discover two cybernetic humanoids, frozen solid and decide to call Starfleet.

It is believed that the Borg Sphere is the one that was shot down by Captain Picard and the crew of the Enterprise-E during the events of "Star Trek: First Contact" when they travelled back in time to ensure a successful first contact witht he Vulcans.

The researchers speculate that if the ship hadn't been destroyed they would have made first contact with them instead of the Vulcans. While studying the cybernetic lifeforms they discover that the cell membranes are repairing themselves through some form of Nanotechnology, which in this time period only the Denobulans have experimented with but apparently have nothing that resembles the cyborg.

As the Borg awakens and prepares to assimilate the researchers, the action moves to Admiral Forrest's Office at Starfleet Headquarters. Worried that they haven't heard from the researchers for some time, Admiral Forrest and Commander Williams send a full armed shuttle to find out whats happened.

Later in the episode, the Enterprise encounters a borgified vessel - the assimilated Earth transport ship used by the researchers at the beginning of the episode. Archer and Reed transport over to the borgified transport ship. Meanwhile in Sickbay, Doctor Phlox makes adjustments to the Imaging Chamber, it appears that Phlox has somehow been assimilated and is gradually advancing with Borg tendrils appearing on his neck and face and starts hearing an eerie whispering and echoes of the Borg hive mind.

The borg ship then locks onto the Enterprise with a tractor beam, while exploring the Borg ship, Archer and Reed recognise one of the faces of the borg lifeforms as that of Doctor Moninger. While trying to communicate, the drone marches forwarded towards Archer and Reed, the captain blasts the drone with his rifle and they both then head down the corridor to try and make their escape...

 

[Tabitha]

Okaaaaaay.

(I am now over the confusion of being subscribed to a thread I had never heard of )


But.... but... but.... what about the timeline and the future and everything? Didn't the TNG crew get back to a future that was the same as they remembered? I wonder how they are going to work around the fact that the timeline hasn't been altered in any significant way, even though humans know about the borg a few centuries early?

 

[Dave]

That could be explained if you don't make the NCC 1701-D meeting the first contact. If you go to that link I posted from the Brannon Braga forum:

Posted by Monsters at GekkoTech.com Forums
"....Keep in mind that the Hansens first ran into a Borg cube, NOT in the Delta Quadrant, but right here on THIS side of the Galaxy somewhere near Romulan space. That was twenty some years before the events of Q-WHO and Picard running into them at J25.
A year or so before Q-WHO the Borg were in the Alpha Quadrant assimilating Federation and Romulan outposts along the Neutral Zone in the TNG ep THE NEUTRAL ZONE.
The Borg Drone, 2nd of 5, "Hugh", (from I BORG) wasn't found in the Delta Quadrant either. Picard and crew ran across him right here in the Alpha Quadrant too didn't they?
Seems to me that the Borg have been sniffing around the Alpha Quadrant for some time and that the Federation just wasn't aware of them.
But the biggest argument for me in this regard comes down to their age.
Lots of Voyager fans point to DRAGONS TEETH and Gedrin's comment about the Borg as setting their age at around 900 years, but Gedrin never said anything about the AGE of the Borg, he just commented that 900 years ago the Vaardwaur had no problem with them (then again who does, until they decide to come after you?), and Seven mentioned that Borg memory from that era was "fractured" (whatever the hell THAT means), but nothing was said about their age.
As far as I know the only "canon" reference to the age of the Borg comes from Guinan in the TNG ep Q-WHO where she explained to Picard and crew that the Borg had been "developing for thousands of centuries". "Thousands (plural) of centuries" would put their age at anywhere between 200,000 years and 999,999 years! The Borg aren't just "old", they're positively ANCIENT. The Borg are actually old enough to perhaps know what happened to "The Demons of Darkness and Air" (Midnight Pepperoni Pizza? ;-) NO! The Iconians, from TNG's CONTAGION. Their empire supposedly fell "overnight" some 200,000 years ago. Makes you wonder if the Borg had anything to do with it.)...."

All of that is canon too. So, Starfleet knew all about the Borg threat, the Hansens knew about the Borg, and it always bothered me that the El-Aurians knew about the Borg and had been on Earth since at least the 1800's (Guinan in TNG 'Time's Arrow).

Edit: A quick look around the ST forums and I see many are saying much the same thing. Many people are typically anti-B&B. Many are saying that it defies both continuity and logic. The flame wars are rife -- it's only a TV show

Others have made some interesting comments, and show that it is all possible if this is a one-off meeting with the Borg, or at least they are used sparingly in 'Enterprise':

The BBS forum has a comment about how future societies easily forget their past histories, citing Asimov's 'Foundation' series as an example.

Someone suggested that Lt. Hawk could have survived from 'First Contact' after Worf threw him off the saucer section.

There is a lot of discussion of the El-Aurians migration, and that Section 31 would have known, and that maybe the Hansens were really Section 31 agents.

 

[skoon]

Ok, this time travel stuff just confusses the heck out of me. I never watched Voyager so the borg aren't 'spoiled' for me as some of you say it did. I don't think they should have added the Borg in Enterprise. Anyhoo, they never say what the Borg are, just that they were able to send off a message that will take 'til the 24 Centry or something to reach the others. What bugged me was that our 1 starship happened to be in the visinity of the taken over ship that the Borg where on...how can that be?

 

[gr8scott]

Originally posted by Tabitha
Okaaaaaay.

(I am now over the confusion of being subscribed to a thread I had never heard of )


But.... but... but.... what about the timeline and the future and everything? Didn't the TNG crew get back to a future that was the same as they remembered? I wonder how they are going to work around the fact that the timeline hasn't been altered in any significant way, even though humans know about the borg a few centuries early?

After realizing that it must have been the First Contact sphere that the Humans found... I began to ask the same questions. Then I realized... Starfleet has alot of info on the Borg now. They have: detailed pictures, wreckage of a sphere (including power plant), wreckage of modified arctic shuttle, enhanced equipment on Enterprise, a few drones (floating in space which can be recovered), sample message, nanoprobes, an actual recovered person who was infected by Borg nanoprobes (Phlox). There might be even more (i.e. a transwarp drive unit???)... who knows.

With all that, humans have the ability to study and reproduce the technology. I'm surprised that they are at such a loss when TNG crew encounters the Borg. It seems that this isn't a causual time loop, but rather an isolated alteration to the timeline. I don't know. But it has the potential to either A)change the entire Star Trek timeline, or B) really mess of cannon. I bet B will happen as it has in the past.

The show was pretty good, but one thing bugged me... toward the end when Archer was on the Borgified transport, he said "they've adapted". Just his use of the word seemed to much. He didn't know that they adapt. For all he knew, they just turned the personal shields on and off. Bit of a stretch.

From the article that Dave linked to:
"My guess (and that's all it is, but I'd argue it's a reasonable one) is that the Borg would have had transwarp drive in Archer's time, probably at least a few of those transwarp hubs, and that by Archer's time they'd already come to know most of the Galaxy, including the Alpha Quadrant.
So why didn't they assimilate Earth and Vulcan and all the rest long ago?
Simple. For the same reason the Borg have never taken an interest in assimilating the Kazon. Tuvok once asked Seven why the Borg had never bothered with the Kazon, and as I recall she asked something along the lines of "why assimilate a species that could only detract from Borg perfection?". In Archer's time, and probably even in Picard's time, none of the cultures in the Alpha Quadrant have anything to offer "Borg perfection", comparatively, they're too primitive, and judging by the Borg Queens attitude toward Humanity 'ol "species 5618" isn't exactly high on the Collective's list for ideal drone fodder. "

So this may be a reason why the Borg won't/don't bother with humans et al.

 

[gr8scott]

Possible story glitch.

I don't think that the nanoprobes in and of themselves are the things that make telepathic communication in the "collective" possible. I think it's the cranial implant that makes this possible as Voyager has made known. So, Phlox wouldn't have been able to hear the collective.

Also, on the two aliens that Enterprise brought aboard that were infected. After they were fully assimilated, they had some of those spider looking implant things on them. How do the nanoprobes replicate and how do they aquire metal to build that stuff. When in the body, how can nonoprobes get and build metal things?

 

[ray gower]

Oh dear!

I think there are quite a few problems here, not withstanding GR8's about physiognomy.

Obvious questions over how easily the Enterprise crew dealt with the Borg:

Remembering these Borg chaps were products of the TNG generation, it seems a little strange that Reed could simply up the wick on the phase pistols and blow so many to Christmas, when TNG, Voyager at al with far more powerful weapons got one shot off if lucky. Always nice to see they can be treated with simple brute force and ignorance though, it saves me some explaining.

The Doctors assimilation also appeared remarkably slow too and simply treatment by irradiating himself?

Dave earlier mentioned that the Hansens met the Borg cube in the Alpha Quadrant. This at least makes a little sense. It seems reasonable that they were well outside Federation space and Borg territory does extend into a lot of the Alpha Quadrant (according to the ST Maps and the Federation only covers a little bit). But it does blow TNG's first meeting to hell.

This show might not drive a truck through Borg canon, but it is a sizeable box van and on the same well trodden path of Voyager.

 

[Dave]

My first thoughts on watching this was that they've been watching too much of John Carpenter's 'The Thing'.

By the end I was quite happy with they way it worked out, then I just read Gr8scott and Ray Gower's posts and changed my mind.

They were hit by the phase pistols too easy, and knocked out of the way like dummies. I remember a Borg picking up Worf on throwing him across the Enterprise-D bridge.

As for the communication with the collective, maybe at close range you can with the nano-probes, but over interstellar distances you need a cranial implant. As for the trace minerals required to replicate nano-probes in viva, I've no explanation on that one.

Did anyone notice that Starfleet Headquarters looks exactly the same as it does 200 years later. Isn't that a little odd too!

I do like the way that they keep throwing in little references to things. This week Dr Phlox mentioned the Bynars having implant surgery at birth.

On the subject of 'Linking' and 'Cybernetic implants' I would have liked that discussion with Reed expanded as it's one I'm interested in. I agree with Reed, but in a discussion here (in the middle of the 'Human Clone' thread in 'General Discussions') padders said he would be first in the queue for one. Obviously, this is something everyone has a different take on. Even Phlox doesn't want to become a Borg though. Without really knowing what they are, he is willing to comit suicide.

It seems likely that Zephram Cochrane would be unable to keep what really happened a secret and mention it at some point. I thought saying that he was frequently intoxicated, and later retracted it, and not always believed, was clever and realistic.

More aliens that we meet and never see again!!!! Tarkalians this time. There are just too many different aliens being seen, that will never be seen again, and that inhabit the very small area of known space they're so far explored. I'm coming to the conclusion that the proto-SuperNova from last week really does decimate the Alpha Quadrant in 100 years time. It's the only logical explanation.

Cute ending with the Pulsar co-ordinates sent in a message to the Delta Quadrant. And in this instance the aliens actually do come back later.

 

[gr8scott]

Originally posted by Dave
As for the trace minerals required to replicate nano-probes in viva, I've no explanation on that one.

After watchnig XMen II over the weekend, and seeing Magnito's ability to suck the iron out of someones blood, I started thinking... maybe the Borg Nanoprobes can actually accumulate iron from the drone's blood. Would it be enouph to make small borg devices? I doubt it would be enouph to create a cranial implant... thus the word "implant". I'm still wondering how they do this.

 

[ray gower]

For various fictions, I have had to consider the Borg and how they are created.
There seems to be a lack of any helpful canon data. So I started to create my own. So I've created a new thread in ST General. Please feel free to chip in or argue with me?
http://www.ascifi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17731