Who are the Valar?

Legolas

something more magical
Joined
Nov 24, 2001
Messages
3,863
ok I know they are from the Silmarillion, but i have not had a chance to get it or read it yet.

So before i do, can anyone give me some info on the Valar? Are they Elves or what? All i know is that there is one called Orome or summat but i'm curious.
:flash:
 
They're 14 powerful spirits who were around before the world was made. They live in the continent of Aman in the west where only the elves are allowed to come. They basically the rule the entire world and have no physical form unless they take one.
 
Isn't Tom Bombadil supposed to be a vallar? gotta admit, if he had control on the world i would probably kill myself Hey! Come derry dol... AAAAAAAAAAGGHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!! :dead:
 
oh god, joe has a thing about bombadil, everyone. just ignore him, k? :D ;)
 
Hey! Come merry dol! derry dol! My darling!
Light goes the weather-wind and... oh stuff it its a load of **** anyway

:lifeup:
 
Stacy said:
They basically the rule the entire world and have no physical form unless they take one.
Ruling all the world is a bit of a stretch; they have little if any interference in the matters of Elves and Men, they are unknown to the vast majority of Men (even when they were part of this world), their powers dimminish in time (cf Myths Transformed, HoME X) and all of them have took on phisical shapes (Quendi and Eldar, HoME XI).
 
No, Tom's origins are never really revealed, but he's not of the orders of the Valar or Maiar; he is, if anything, similar to the Genius Loci of earlier metaphysics. He has no allegiances, and is wayward and unpredictable, impish (though not necessarily mischievous, and certainly not evil), like some of the smaller nature deities.

The symbolism of Tom is quite complex, I think, though it takes a careful reading of the text to get that, as it seems at first glance simply an odd digression; but he symbolizes many aspects of Tolkien's views of "unfallen" nature, I'd say, as well as his roles given above. I've come to find him more and more of a fascinating character, yet he still remains rather enigmatic....
 
Um just a quick question. Raynor are you by chance from The Tolkien Forum under the name of Thorondor_?

Anyway...The Valar are thought by some people to be the same as our gods/god. The Istari are not Valar they are Maiar and I personally think Tom Bombidil is not either.
 
I would more consider the Valar as an angelic order. In the beginning of the Silmarillion, when the Creator is manifesting the world-to-be through the song of their choir, they take on an almost childlike awe and grace. From there they descend to the world and attempt to shape it in the way they had envisioned from the song, and in a sense take the role of guardians, rather than gods. Their powers are great, but I wouldn't label them gods. Especially given the fact that they are not infallible and have very humanistic emotional constructs, and also given Tolkiens own personal beliefs; it is possible he was re-styling his own theology into something a bit more poetic.
 
Actually, Tolkien calls them both angels and gods in the letters - he didn't have a problem with either; in his essay "On fairy stories", he quoted Andrew Lang as saying that mythology is devoid of religion. He also said in letter #131 that whatever religious elements are present in a fairy story must not be explicit in the terms of the real world.
Letter #131 said:
God and the Valar (or powers: Englished as gods) are revealed. These latter are as we should say angelic powers, whose function is to exercise delegated authority in their spheres (of rule and government, not creation, making or re-making). They are 'divine', that is, were originally 'outside' and existed 'before' the making of the world.
Letter #153 said:
The immediate 'authorities' are the Valar (the Powers or Authorities): the 'gods'. But they are only created spirits – of high angelic order we should say, with their attendant lesser angels – reverend, therefore, but not worshipful
Maji, I agree with your interpretation on Tom; Tolkien did actually meant him to be an enigma; as to your first question, the answer is yes.
 
I guessed it by your avatar.

Wooooh someone agrees with me!!!

Also do you know where I might be able to get my hands on a copy of the letters?
 
Actually, Tolkien calls them both angels and gods in the letters - he didn't have a problem with either; in his essay "On fairy stories", he quoted Andrew Lang as saying that mythology is devoid of religion. He also said in letter #131 that whatever religious elements are present in a fairy story must not be explicit in the terms of the real world.


Maji, I agree with your interpretation on Tom; Tolkien did actually meant him to be an enigma; as to your first question, the answer is yes.

Well, either way, it may be a matter of subjectivity. Even Tolkien’s own words suggest as much. The only real answer for the question is to point the topic creator toward other Tolkien works and maybe then he/she can make their own assessment. We may be thinking a bit too deeply about the question too, and in that case I would still point him/her in the direction of some of the other works, so they can get a straight-laced answer of who the Valar are in relation to the world and not who we perceive them to be from a theological standpoint...
 
Also do you know where I might be able to get my hands on a copy of the letters?

Well, Amazon over here has it in both the trade pb and original hardbound... in fact, the hardbound is considerably cheaper (USD $3.25 and up as opposed to $10.65 and up), so I'd imagine you could get it through Amazon, period, or the other online book sites. The trade pb is still in print, I believe, so you should be able to order it through any local bookstore, as well.
 

Similar threads


Back
Top