Goa'uld Gender

[Svarog]

I was getting bored not having any new posts so i decided to make a new topic.

If a Goa'uld itself, the actual symbiote has no sex then what are queens?

Lets start by defining the word gender.
-the being of either male or female(www.dictionary.com)

so then we'd better look at male or female.

Lets start with male, which in my opinion is the unimportant one here.


Of, relating to, or designating the sex that has organs to produce spermatozoa for fertilizing ova.
Characteristic of or appropriate to this sex; masculine.
Consisting of members of this sex.
Virile; manly.
Botany.
Relating to or designating organs, such as anthers or antheridia, that produce gametes capable of fertilizing those produced by female organs.
Bearing stamens but not pistils; staminate: male flowers.
Designating an object, such as an electric plug, configured for insertion into a recessed part or socket.

So in that case male is referring to the creature that gives some substance to the ova to fertilize them. So... the Goa'uld male would not in fact be a symbiote, but rather the human, or other host that gives the tissue sample that allows the symbiote larvae to be compatible with the intended host.

Of or denoting the sex that produces ova or bears young.
Characteristic of or appropriate to this sex; feminine.
Consisting of members of this sex. See Usage Note at lady.
Botany.
Designating an organ, such as a pistil or ovary, that functions in producing seeds after fertilization.
Bearing pistils but not stamens; pistillate: female flowers.
Having a recessed part, such as a slot or receptacle, designed to receive a complementary male part: the female section of an electrical outlet.

Therefore the female is the Goa'uld queen.

So my theory is that not all Goa'uld have gender, only some do, since there is no need for a male. There are queens and not queens.

 

[Rowan]

So ...

So basically you're saying that they could be compaired to bees, in some sense: queens and drones with genetic doners coming from outside the Goa'uld pool in the form of the host race they wish to Jaffa, etc.

Rowan

 

[PTeppic]

Could they be hermaphrodite, like worms?

 

[Svarog]

yes they are hermaphroditic, they don't really need the tissue sample from the host, from memory they can do it without the tissue, but it enhances the larvae, of course i've learned to be skeptical on my memory for such specific things. I was going to do a comparison between the Goa'uld and animals with weird gender issues, but i forgot. One good example is that a certain species (or genus) of fish could switch genders as needed, which i must say is rather odd.

 

[timdgreat]

i think that in general they really dont have a gender. now i realize that what im gonna say has holes in it but it makes sense to me. i think that the Goa'uld have gender and any reason that they would be classified as one or the other is because of hosts they take. they are a alein race after all, so they dont have to conform to us in being either male or female. and no i cant explain the queens.

 

[PTeppic]

It must, of course, be made a LOT more difficult/confusing by the bi-lateral gender nature of most/all of their chosen host species.

 

[timdgreat]

if my beliefs are true than u bet it is

 

[PTeppic]

To be honest, it would probably be easier if the symbiotes themselves were hermaphrodite. Imagine what it must be like to be a female, in love with a male, when you are both in bodies of the same gender, at least one of you the opposite to your natural one...

We know that the symbiotes (Tok'ra at least - but we can probably extrapolate for the Goa'uld) CAN use hosts of a different gender - though they may have a preference. Both races also DO have emotional attachments of a gender-based nature (e.g. Jolinar/Martouf and Apophis/Amaunet).

 

[Svarog]

No need to extrapolate, just look at Osiris, s/he could have taken a new male host any time and dumped her female body. She would have maintained any memories and its all the same to him. I can't find any logical explanation for how the Tok'ra can say they don't have a gender whilst they obviously have a queen. However it may be that they are referring to themselves and not including the Goa'uld.

This makes sense because they don't affiliate themselves with Goa'uld (they hated being called Goa'ulds in the first episodes) and they don't have a queen any longer. Therefore they are all male and they might not consider one gender a gender at all.

Or alternatively there is a certain species of fish (mentioned earlier) that changes sex. I'm doing reprodution in school and just watched a video about it. The dominant sex is the male. There is one male (from memory) and when he dies the dominant female changes sex and becomes the one male. It could be a similar concept with the Goa'ulds.

 

[Wingless Flyer]

I am guessing 'queen' isn't gender specific in the Go'uld, but with the rank or standing that that Goa'uld (Hathor for example) has. That's why they need the host body to make more, as they can't do it themselves (sort of brings up the question, how did they evolve in the first place?)

Maybe certain Goa'uld, such as Hathor, have some special ability to reproduce the species as Queen. Or any Goa'uld can do it..

 

[shu_hunter]

Nah, not any goa'uld, or the Tok'ra would've started a new queen and repopulated the Tok'ra ranks.

We conclude from the Tok'ra that goa'yld have no gender, but some have a preference.

The real question is what separates the queen goa'uld from other goa'uld? How do they develop the ability to reproduce?

SPOILER S6 "Cure"
*
*We know that goa'uld queens can make little goa'uld without new genetic material*
*

So why are they special? Does "Hathor" give any insight? My memory's not too clear on that episode.

~Shu Hunter
:upto: Stargate fan{atic}

 

[PTeppic]

From my memory, nothing is said about why or how she is queen and able to propogate, she just is...

There must be some mechanism from when the symbiotes were still just water-bourne snakes, to ensure they can reproduce and have queens - may be temperature (or similar) during germination and development, may be diet, may be randomly genetic etc....

 

[Svarog]

I am guessing 'queen' isn't gender specific in the Go'uld

The definition of female is to be able to produce offspring with the aid of another tissue, usually from the male. Therefore the queen is obviously female, at least by our definition. The Goa'uld may have a different classification or something.

 

[PTeppic]

I think someone higher up has already highlighted bees, for whom ordinary females become queen based on diet, and another species which can change sex.

Many reptiles change sex during incubation in the egg based on temperature, and amphibians can change sex based on scarcity of the necessary other gender (think "nature will find a way" in Jurassic Park).

So there are many ways that male could become female, and female could become queen...