Possibly VERY Unpopular Thread lol

[krushi]

right.. here goes... dont kill me...

i am a huuuuuuuuuge david eddings fan n hav been since i first read the belgariad, mallorean, prequels, elenium n tamuli... wen i was 14 i think.... that was 4 years ago...i've reread them all a coupla times, plus althalus 3 times... so i am one of u lot...but when i read regina's song my enthusiasm started to dissipate to b honest

i think this thread is goin to be really unpopular but im jus givin my views... now that im a lil older than i was wen i started readin his books im lookin at them more critically... n i've noticed some problems wit his style... i think he's gettin comfortable and has been ever since the garion stories... and tho his ideas are fantastic, his writing is becoming quite hackneyed, tired because of its overuse... this might be the case with all authors but i dont think it should happen to someone of david eddings' class...

for one thing i think his dialogue has become really stale, far too american high school for me i think...i've got an example if anyones interested... i think he develops the characters in a uniform way so they end up the same...everyone has the same sense of humour, everyone banters in the same way, and tho the characters have so much potential when they're described, the dialogue makes you lose respect for them... for example... take longbow (the elder gods, dreamers part one)... he's a powerful character wit a passion only for vengeance, hard eyes and a harder heart...


‘How can you say that, friend Longbow? I’m shocked at you! Shocked!’


‘Oh, quit.’ Longbow peered at the brushy beach.


perhaps not the best example but for sumone like longbow to say "oh, quit" seems fairly implausible to me... it seems he feels he's struck a winning combination of elements and feels that if it aint broken y fix it (if ur true eddings fans u'll notice that familar line)...


how is charlie west different from silk? red beard from barak? aphrael from eleria? ehlana from ce'nedra? regina from renata? lol ignore the last one.. my witless attempts at wit... but i hope u see where im coming from...


like i said before, reginas song is the straw that broke the camels back for me... the story line and idea was very original.. well i havent come across anything like that but im fairly young... but i was impressed by the development of his ongoing interest in cryptolalia (i know big words ) ... but i was incredibly disappointed by the fact that mark was just a younger eddings.. and through mark, eddings saw a chance to air all his gripes with the world today, trashing tv, ebooks, modern terms like SUV over station wagon, pop music.. dont get me wrong i dont hav a problem with the fact that he has a problem with these things.. but it really disappointed me the way he abused his power over the characters to impress his views onto his readers... like the way that renata liked classical music (an unrealistic idiosyncrasy...but eddings wanted to push his utopia), the unholy hatred james bears toward modern terms like SUV seems out of character for such a laid back guy.. but again its eddings shining through... ALL the characters hate the tv, just like eddings and at no point does he attempt to have any characters argue his views, they jus all have his opinions...


regina's song, in my opinion, was a fantastic idea that was enormously cheapened by eddings need to push his views on to his readers and i think, if you put your love for his books to one side and look at it critically, after having read his other books, you might find yourself agreeing with me.... feel free to let me kno

 

[Foxbat]

Hi Krushi and welcome to Chronicles

Although I'm not a huge Eddings fan (I have read The Belgariad and that's about it for me) I understand where you are coming from with regards to characterisation. The one you describe is a common problem. Robert Heinlein's characters were similar in the sense that, after a few books, they all seemed to blend into one.

As for using characters to air gripes/ideas/prejudices...well there's nothing new there. And there's probably a bit of the author in every character.

The dialogue example you give smacks of laziness and Eddings' editor should be held as responsible as Eddings himself for this faux pas.

The biggest problem I find with fantasy is that it can quite easily fall into a rutt of formulaic writing (which seems to be what you are describing here).
There are others on this boards with a much clearer picture than myself on the current fantasy scene and I'm sure their input will be coming along shortly.

As for your fears that this thread may be unpopular - I wouldn't worry about that. The folks here like nothing better than a good, healthy debate

 

[Jayaprakash Satyamurthy]

Welcome aboard Krushi.

I'm afraid I'm going to have to dissapoint you once again in your anticipation of unpopularity, as I agree with you too. While the Belgariad was fun the first time around, it rapidly became clear to me that Eddings was merely recycling plots that weren't that original in the first place. I remember his works fondly as being genuinely enjoyable but there are far more rewarding fantasy authors to be read, and I doubt I'd really bother re-visiting his works again at this point.

 

[Lacedaemonian]

I loved Eddings and have read all of his fantasy works, except for the talking cat crap (which sadly I own). The views expressed by David in the Rivan Codex were low, and have since coloured the man in a nasty poo coloured brown. Having since read novels by far more accomplished writers, I find it hard to even consider the man to be one of the great fantasy authors. George RR Martin, JV Jones, Feist, Gemmell....

That was like reading a raw unpublished Twain...

 

[McMurphy]

Eddings Thoughts

I loved Eddings and have read all of his fantasy works, except for the talking cat crap (which sadly I own). The views expressed by David in the Rivan Codex were low, and have since coloured the man in a nasty poo coloured brown. Having since read novels by far more accomplished writers, I find it hard to even consider the man to be one of the great fantasy authors. George RR Martin, JV Jones, Feist, Gemmell....

That was like reading a raw unpublished Twain...

I agree with everyone's sentiments in this thread, and I am glad to see that someone else pointed out Eddings's less-than-impressive attitude towards, well, life in general as expressed in Rivan Codex. In that publication, (among other things) he stated that he could not understand why anyone else would even bother writing fantasy since, as he saw it, everything has already been done before.

I admit that, while I have read a handful of his novels, I have never been all that impressed by his (and his wife's) work.

 

[Lacedaemonian]

Aye, it all seemed to go down hill when Leigh's name graced the sleeves. A conspiracy theory in the making; Leigh wrote the talking cat crap, the Rivan Codex etc etc. David is totally senile, and is currently living in a nursing home.

 

[Mark Robson]

*LOL at conspiracy theory*

Unfortunately I have to agree about Eddings losing it - I haven't bothered to buy The Elder Gods, or his latest effort. Is it me, or is Anne McCaffrey losing it too? Her last in the Tower and Hive Series was dreadful! I don't know whether I'm becoming cynical and more critical - maybe I'm having a mid-life crisis and didn't realise it - or if some of the greats are losing their marbles. If so, then it's a terrible shame, as their works have given me a huge amount of enjoyment over the years.

 

[Ashen Shugar]

Well Krushi, you seem to be receiving nothing but support for your sentiments. I loved the Belgariad & Mallorean, liked the Elenium & Tamuli, and have now given up on Eddings. Like yourself, I read the 1st series' when I was younger, but I still return to them & enjoy them now. Reginas Song was awful. I didn't like Belgarath or Polgara books, the Riven Codex or the Redemption. I haven't read the Elder Gods stuff & probably won't unless someone who can recognise the repetition of dialogue and characters informs me that this deficiency has been rectified. Unfortunantly, I can't see it happening. We can only hope Eddings runs out of money when he stops selling rubbish on his name alone, pushes him out of his comfort zone and actually makes him try a new tact of originality...

He was once great however...

 

[Esioul]

I only read the first three or four books in the Belgariad. At first I found them very enjoyable, however, I soon got bored, because I found the stories to lack originality, and the characters to be dull and often cliched, and sometimes (Like that awful Ce'nedra), really annoying. There were also other imporabilities: I think I reall at one point they were in wagons pulled by horses, and these gallopped all day. Horses gallopping with wagons all day without getting tired/breaking the wagon? Hmmm.

This is probably all just my opinion... but I can see that many more serious fantasy fans might enjoy his work.

 

[a|one]

I find it hard to even consider the man to be one of the great fantasy authors. George RR Martin, JV Jones, Feist, Gemmell....

Wow thats insane.. you just listed my 5 all time favorites. (Just wanted to say that first )

So anyways, I agree completely about Eddings style being overplayed. I Enjoyed it a lot when i was 10, but by the age of 13 when the Redemption of Althalus came out i was utterly dissapointed. I read all the Eddings books i could find within a year of first reading the Belgariad, but once finished I moved on to new material and didnt look back. Reading the Redempton of Althalus was like driving rusty nails through my feet with a plastic hammer. I had literally zero drive to keep going, everything just felt painfully predicatable and uninteresting. I dont remember at any point thinking that the main characters were in any danger of losing their "war" or whatever it was. The opposition just seemed undertalented undermanned and overmatched. And looking back it occured to me that all Eddings series seem to carry this trait. The good guys just dont seem to be challanged at all. Its kind of like the opposite of the concluding novel in the Quintara Marathon.

Anyways, I think I'll end this before I piss off to many die-hard Eddings fans. The point is Eddings is a good author for starting readers, I definitley enjoyed his books the first time round more than i did reading The Lord of the Rings at age 9. But they just lose their appeal once you reach a certain level of experience.

 

[Circus Cranium]

You're far from alone in your Eddings ambivilence.

 

[Tsujigiri]

I have to agree as well, I read and enjoyed the Belgariad & Mallorean and the Elenium & Tamuli, recently I read the Redemption of Althalus...and was pleasantly disappointed.
It was very much a recycled plot line and reminded me of the times when I have revisited the haunts of my childhood as an adult. everything seemed so much smaller and less impressive.
I haven't really bothered with any of his work since then.

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

I agree as well.
Lots of better authors out there.
I think I lost my patience with Eddings when the Sparhawk series came out (e.g. Garion & his magic rock set in a slightly different setting)

I read the Redemption of Althalus and whilst I wasn't as disappointed as some of the others on here, it was just another journeyman book for me. Eddings is most definately in his 'comfort' zone here and needs to learn from the likes of Gemmell & Fiest and actually explore new characters & situations. I haven't read Elder Gods, no do I have an desire to do so

On a plus note: I really enjoyed the Mallorean series!

 

[Tsujigiri]

I will probably use Eddings to wean my children onto what I consider 'teen' fantasy in a few years. To prepare them for Gemmell, Erikson and the other substantial authors.

I can't find it now, but I remember seeing somewhere that he didn't understand why anyone would want to write fantasy because it had all been done before.
What a load of horsemanure!

I imagine there are other writers on this board, who will all understand that you write because you have to, whether it's because you have a story then needs to be put onto paper or simply because you want to see what happens next.

If you take his comment in this context then you can begin to understand why his books all follow the same formula. He isn't creating anything new, just replaying his 'winning formula'.

 

[Princess Ivy]

I agree as well.
Lots of better authors out there.
I think I lost my patience with Eddings when the Sparhawk series came out (e.g. Garion & his magic rock set in a slightly different setting)

I read the Redemption of Althalus and whilst I wasn't as disappointed as some of the others on here, it was just another journeyman book for me. Eddings is most definately in his 'comfort' zone here and needs to learn from the likes of Gemmell & Fiest and actually explore new characters & situations. I haven't read Elder Gods, no do I have an desire to do so

On a plus note: I really enjoyed the Mallorean series!

I read the elder gods. At its start, he really was trying something different, and the work seemed very stiff and formal. Then suddenly the old jokes were there, the old characters re-surfaced, and so did that laid back humourus style.
I like that pharase, pleasantly disapointed, Tsujigiri, it really sums it up. I read the new books, hoping for something relavant, or new, and am disapointed, although the style of writing is still enjoyable.

 

[Beldins armpit]

As much as I hate to admit it, I agree with the sentiments expressed here, (not all though). I read the Belgariad for the first time when i was 13, (15 years ago now!) and I loved it, all the ideas seemed so fresh and the characters exciting, I remember the first time that Garion used the will and the word; to burn Aharak the murgo, and it made me laugh out loud, ("Yeah! 'ave it you arsehole!") and the whole of the series was the same, I absolutely loved it.
Then, I discovered the Elenium, which, again, I thought was bloody fantastic, the story smacked of the same kind of thing though...the orb of Aldur...Bhelliom, killing evil gods...etc. These similarties did not diminish my enjoyment, I still go back to them from time to time (like an old comfortable sofa.)
When The redemption of Althulus was released, however, I was dissapointed, I read it all, put it down and left it to gather dust. What a load of rubbish. I tell you, if I had have been Althulus, I would have taken that cat, skinned it and turned it into a bleedin' vindaloo. And whats the story with the house, eh? smacks a bit of stephen king; The Talisman, black house, The dark tower...etc. These characters are the same ones that are in the belgariad and the Elenium, just without their fluidity or life; they are lacklustre characters at best, and infuriating.
I am an Eddings fan, only to the Belgariad and Malloreon and their prequels, and to the Elenium and Tamuli. Everything after that, well, I'd rather go over to Feist...

P.S.
Has anyone read the Pendragon cycle by stephen Lawhead? There are five books in all, and I find them to be remarkably refreshing, try them!
bye!!!

 

[Drachir]

Posted by Esioul:

I think I reall at one point they were in wagons pulled by horses, and these gallopped all day. Horses gallopping with wagons all day without getting tired/breaking the wagon? Hmmm.

Interesting you should say that. When I read the books i was impressed by the fact that Eddings seemed to understand that horses cannot go all day without resting. If you check through the books I think you will find that he does mention frequent rest stops for the horses and often mentions that the characters walk to rest their animals when going up steep hills and so on. Just a minor point, but I did enjoy Eddings books.

 

[Tsujigiri]

I'd agree that he does seem to understand horses, however....dramatic effect can often supersede accuracy...more's the pity...

 

[Princess Ivy]

Posted by Esioul:

I think I reall at one point they were in wagons pulled by horses, and these gallopped all day. Horses gallopping with wagons all day without getting tired/breaking the wagon? Hmmm.

Interesting you should say that. When I read the books i was impressed by the fact that Eddings seemed to understand that horses cannot go all day without resting. If you check through the books I think you will find that he does mention frequent rest stops for the horses and often mentions that the characters walk to rest their animals when going up steep hills and so on. Just a minor point, but I did enjoy Eddings books.

and of course the crossing from mishrak ak thull to algaria, when the horses gave out and had to be walked. Yes, he did have a certain lack for building excitement into the mundane.

 

[Flame of Eternal Dar]

I really liked Eddings up to, and including, Redemption of Althalus. The Eldar Gods, though it started off promising, quickly degenerated into old clichés and recycled characters and situations.

The child goddess, for example... a straight incarnation of Aphrael from Elenium and Tamuli. Rabbit is a near-straight copy of the young lad Gher, from Althalus.

And the conversations...

"I'm shocked at you... shocked!"

Straight copy/paste from Althalus.

Don't get me wrong... I enjoyed the book, and I will read the next one just cos I've got to know what happens, but I think he's really lost the plot now.

I'm sorry...

David Eddings... R.I.P.