About the species of Râ's prior host and the human captured...

[Ko'or Oragahn]

See, like Anubis, it seems that Râ had a host that wasn't human.
But the most bizarre aspect of the biology of the former host is that except that Râ took a human because we're quite easy to repair, for unkown reasons, when it unleashed it hatred when facing the bomb, we saw the face of the prior alien, and above all, when the bomb exploded, it revealed the biology of the alien !

So what happened with the human host ?

Well, we know that it was more an outer skin than anything else. Remember when Râ's mask faded out ? It literally shrinked and morphed into its head !

My pov is that Râ didn't just only took control of a human but also altered its nature by nanomolecular process.

It's possible that in fact it fused the old creature with the human to get the advantages of both.

 

[webmouse]

An interesting idea, of course, but keep in mind that you are putting in a great deal of effort to explain a movie special effect created years before a TV series envisioned the race of Goa'uld.

When we saw the death of Ra all that was intended by the film was what was stated in the film -- Ra was the last of an alien race who took control of a human boy. We saw that alien's face at the moment of his death.

The film makes no mention of a symbiote nor a prior host. We have infered these things after the TV series created the Goa'uld, so there could be a continuing stream of villains to challenge SG1.

However, we are left with that alien face as the bomb explodes. You can write any sort of subtext and background that satisfies you, but there will never be a definitive answer because this is science fiction.

 

[Raptor]

I remember reading an interview with the makeup crew - the Unas were introduced to the show to fill some of those gaps. I know the Unas doesn't really look like Ra's 'other' form, but they tried, I guess.
Raptor

 

[webmouse]

It did look a little like an Unas and its nice to hear that the TV series was making every effort to fill in the gaps . Still that wouldn't explain why the Unas self appeared as the human host was destroyed.

Perhaps what we were seeing at the moment the bomb explodes was an artistic representation of the kahlesh or soul of Ra.

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

In contrary of many (lazy) people here, I still respect the film, and still try to fill the gaps between the film and the shows (which simply wouldn't exist without one of the greatest sci-fi/fantasy films ever made these latest years).

Yes, the Unas is a very poor attempt to cover the gap.

Perhaps what we were seeing at the moment the bomb explodes was an artistic representation of the kahlesh or soul of Ra.

While it sounds nice to my ears, I wonder why the soul would look like that. Matye it has been so long since Râ was inside this other form that in fact, the soul deeply bonded itself to the former host's body.

But that's doesn't suffice. Why did we see the bones and the flesh of the alien ?

I think my former explanation if the more believable (for the moment). It is the most "scientific" one.
We know that some of the Goa'uld Lords mastered the nanomolecular technology.

 

[PTeppic]

It could be they were using a host which was itself symbiotic, or one which could prolong its life by becoming wholly or partly symbiotic, and hence in a real sense was still present inside the human "shell".

 

[webmouse]

Originally posted by Ko'or Oragahn
In contrary of many (lazy) people here, I still respect the film, and still try to fill the gaps between the film and the shows ...

It isn't "laziness" -- it is acceptance of reality. The film was made before the TV show was even contemplated. There are bound to be gaps, discrepancies, character changes, and plot additions to shift from a 2 hour film to a weekly series.

I do not see a problem with that nor any reason to invent massive subtext and backstory. It isn't as though the writers have failed the audience in any way. In fact, they've done a wonderful job of linking the two media. If the worst discrepancy is a few seconds of special effect as Ra dies, I can live with that and my willing suspension of disbelief is unperturbed.

Originally posted by Ko'or Oragahn
Why did we see the bones and the flesh of the alien ? I think my former explanation if the more believable (for the moment). It is the most "scientific" one. We know that some of the Goa'uld Lords mastered the nanomolecular technology.

Yours is a fine explanation, but it is only one of many possible, including a vision of a kahlesh or even an earlier Unas self. We don't know if Ra mastered nanomolecular technology, nor if that would cause the effect of seeing the bones and flesh of an alien prior host. Since this is fiction it will be hard to apply the scientific method.

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

It isn't "laziness" -- it is acceptance of reality.

To me it's still laziness. You're just accepting to let yet unexplained problems spoil the SG universe instead of really trying to make film's and series' facts stick together.
Your reality is nothing more than not trying to link the film with the series.

The film was made before the TV show was even contemplated. There are bound to be gaps, discrepancies, character changes, and plot additions to shift from a 2 hour film to a weekly series.

Not really. Passing from a film to a bunch of series doesn't have to add such errors and changes if things are correctly done.
The best example is the Star Trek universe.

I do not see a problem with that nor any reason to invent massive subtext and backstory. It isn't as though the writers have failed the audience in any way. In fact, they've done a wonderful job of linking the two media.

I don't remember saying the contrary.

If the worst discrepancy is a few seconds of special effect as Ra dies, I can live with that and my willing suspension of disbelief is unperturbed.

You may notice that generally, the biggest problems like discrepancies generally arise because of the existence of little details barely noticeable by the average spectator.

And excuse me, but Râ's case is certainly not a matter of mere seconds related to his death but in fact a big issue revealed because of all what we learned during the film about his fomer host, his powers, his technology and his biology.

Yours is a fine explanation, but it is only one of many possible, including a vision of a kahlesh or even an earlier Unas self.

Watch the film and the series, compare an unas to Râ's old host and you'll see that it CAN'T BE an unas.

Now, about the kahlesh, I'm not really sure that it's possible, since it refers to the soul. The issue is more material and biological here.

We don't know if Ra mastered nanomolecular technology.

Given the features of his mask and his troops' ones, if it's not nanotechnology, then I wonder what it could be.

Since this is fiction it will be hard to apply the scientific method.

AFAIK, it is called SCIENCE-fiction, not only fiction.

It could be they were using a host which was itself symbiotic, or one which could prolong its life by becoming wholly or partly symbiotic, and hence in a real sense was still present inside the human "shell".

Yes, it's plausible.
What we know is that Râ could have simply took the human and discarded its ageing previous host.
But in fact, Râ kept it and somehow merged it with the human shell.

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by Ko'or Oragahn
Not really. Passing from a film to a bunch of series doesn't have to add such errors and changes if things are correctly done.

BUT, and this is a huge but, this assumes the writers/producers are deliberately trying to tie the whole universe together from the two sources. In fact, we know the opposite also applies at times: whenever they feel it necessary, they change details, by either accident or design.

I'd say that at times, the writers etc. do a great job in tying the two together. But, for me, the rest of the time they just ignore the differences - as we should. Some are insurmoutable - so why get stressed worrying about filling in the missing bits? They are and always will be two sources, for different purposes. Like different religions or species, we just need to cherish the best bits, and ignore the differences...

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

What if Râ's host was in fact a Reole or a descendant of the Reole ?

 

[PTeppic]

Wouldn't that mean he would have had to ensured physical contact between his chemical marker and the whole planet - or are you just saying the face was similar?

For me, the most interesting part is that he says that the human race is so easy to repair - yet he had a sarcophagus anyway! Maybe some of the more NATURALLY easily repaired or damage resistant species such as Unas are actually very difficult, slower or somehow more energy intensive to repair than humans?

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Originally posted by PTeppic
Wouldn't that mean he would have had to ensured physical contact between his chemical marker and the whole planet

To do what ? Make him look like a human for example?

- or are you just saying the face was similar?

Both. As far as I know, Tyler's race is the closest race ever shown in the TV show that closely matches the shape of the alien in the film.

For me, the most interesting part is that he says that the human race is so easy to repair - yet he had a sarcophagus anyway! Maybe some of the more NATURALLY easily repaired or damage resistant species such as Unas are actually very difficult, slower or somehow more energy intensive to repair than humans?

Well, they repair most of all organic tissues with their sarcophagus. But it's true, it's very easy to repair humans. Just see how fast it was for Shau're to be revived at the end of the film, and yet she was killed by a film staff, but maybe not used at full power (we saw soldiers at the beginning of the film being completely thrown in air by powerfull blasts).

 

[gr8scott]

Originally posted by Ko'or Oragahn
To me it's still laziness. You're just accepting to let yet unexplained problems spoil the SG universe instead of really trying to make film's and series' facts stick together.

I disagree. It's not laziness. There are some gross discrepancies between the film and the series... and we just have to accept them as such. It's not a bad thing. For example:

When they sent the MALP through the gate in the film, and the tracker thing started to move in the control room... the technician said that "it's on the opposite side of the known universe". OK, we know that's not true because the gate needed to use an extra chevron just to get to the Asgards planet in another galaxy. Also, the whole six points in space thing is out the door. See here for reason why.

 

[Crazy]

When they sent the MALP through the gate in the film, and the tracker thing started to move in the control room... the technician said that "it's on the opposite side of the known universe". OK, we know that's not true because the gate needed to use an extra chevron just to get to the Asgards planet in another galaxy. Also, the whole six points in space thing is out the door. See here for reason why.

yep, those are some big discrepancies, but I would rather be lost in a SG-1 ep or the movie than pull my hair out over problems with continuity in a Sci_Fi series....(providing they are not on the StarTrek level of errors.... ....)