Goa'uld Heavy Ground Vehicle ideas

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Post here all your ideas about possible ground vehicles.

Keep in mind that there must be a balance. you just can't put tons of weapons along with the strongest armour, the better shield, the most powerfull that and the greatest this.

You have to think about several points when you'll make your unit.

1. Role
   
   First, what is your unit best suited for ? Transport ? Heavy enforcement assault ? DCA ?
   This is a simple question and must remain short.
   
2. Shape
   
   Three things that you must remember when you're going to design the shape of your unit :
   
   Role
   Once you know what is the very role of your unit, you have good clues to think about the shape and the dimensions of your unit. Must it be bulk ? Blade shaped ? Optimised for stealth ? Does it have to provide lots of space for the guns or the troops ? Etc.
   
   Symbolism
   
   One of the main reasons why we only saw flying units is because they basically represent the Godsand Godesses angryness deployed under the form of dark birds of metal unleashing the divine fire (wraith).
   
   So if we're going to have a ground unit, it better has to be frightful enough and contain lots of symbolism, without being kitsch, off course.
   Some of you will prefer to make it more functionnal when others will give mroe weight to the metaphor.
   
   Gate Factor
   
   One of the most important point is to know if your unit will be able to go through the gate.
   It's not a big problem if after exiting a gate, your unit can be deployed (until you remember to include all the mecahnisms and the place needed to retract and deploy parts of your vehicle).
   
   Coolness
   
   Ok, this is very subjective. Some people will like their vehicle to be slick, other will prefer cutting edges or massive pieces or even all sorts of things protruding here and there.
   Some will prefer to have gold and black paintings where other will tend to put only black plates.
   One will like it to be shiny where others will prefer to give it a more used aspect (think of Star Wars's Millenium Falcon in comparison to the Royal Nubian chromed ships).
   Mate or shiny surfaces.
   One will have most of the plates to be smooth where others will prefer to put lots or relief.
   
3. Powering
   
   Now, you must feed you creature. Think about the nature of the reactor and what kind of materials it possibly uses. How big it is, if it needs to be isolated.
   Or are there any batteries ?
   
4. Accessibility
   
   Safe you're planning on creating some kind of experimental fully automatised unit (but then you may bring some kind of inconsistency in regards of the general Goa'uld military), you must think about where the soldiers will fit inside the vehicle and how they will get and move inside (hatches, ramps, etc.).
   
   Also remember to give place for material containment if your vehicle will have little, medium or large cargo hold capacity.
   
5. Locomotion and Mobility
   
   Now, you have to determine the way your unit is supposed to move. How does it move ? Does it have only on type of locomotion ? How high is its maximum velocity (special conditions included) ? How fast can it accelerate and decelerate ? Can it shift laterally ?
   
   You have to be quite specific about the locomotion mode. Does it uses caterpillar tracks, wheels, legs (few big ones or multiple tiny ones) ? Or does it hovers above the ground ? Or maybe something else ?
   
   As always, think about the place needed for the mechanics and systems.
   
6. Weaponry
   
   Since it is a war vehicle, it must have weapons. But what kind of weapons ? Classic answer would be : Big kick ass staffs !
   Ok, but is that all ? What about mine dropping capacity ? Or incapaciting infantry-scale projectile-launchers or energetic guns (think of big zat guns), etc.
   Also think about the power, the arc and range of your weapons, where they're located, if they're hiden and if they can be removed.
   What's intersting with Stargate weapons is that generally, the hardware required associated to a weapon work is pretty small in comparison of the gun. Think of the heavy staff guns (nearly bazookas) mounted on the death gliders. In a lot of SciFi universes, you couldn't just pick the big gun like did Teal'c because you would need at least to carry huge back packs of hardware and possible big energy cells or reactors.
   But remember, once you have removed the weapon from the vehicle, chances are that the power, range and above all autonomy could be greatly reduced.
   Logic would say that the heavier and bigger the weapon is, the less it will have its features reduced when removed from the vehicle.
   
7. Armour
   
   The main advantage of the ground unit is that it provides much more resistance for its onboard troops against weapons (well, usually) because it is, well... a ground unit. Think for example that it is far easier to make a heavily armoured tank roll than fly. Same applies here.
   So how resistant is the armour ? Does it have weaknesses against particular weapons ? Is the protection costant everywhere on the vehicle ?
   
8. Shields
   
   You're certainly not obliged to add an energetic shield to your vehicle.
   But if you do so, then you must think first about the necessary hardware.
   Where is (are) the generator(s) located ? How is the shield projected ? How long can it last ? How much power can it absorb (store) ? Does it in fact absorb power or does it just dump it ?
   Do we need to totally lower the shields in order to touch and damage the hull ? Are there any side effects for the troops ? What are its weaknesses ?
   Is it always visible or just under specific occasions ?
   
9. Sensors and Communications
   
   Just in case you forgot it, it'd be nice if the troops inside your vehicle were able to communicate with the ship or an orb or anything else.
   
10. Special Features
    
    Anything that doesn't fit in the previous sections.
    

Feel free to post pics of any drawings you made.

 

[Rowan]

Disclaimer...

You can go ahead, but since this is a very public forum, I'm not sure how much weight a disclaimer like this would hold. it might be hard to prove timelines, etc. on developements. Science and Science Fiction go hand in hand.

Also, I know a lot of stuff currently in developement in the various armed services that would have been seen as SF a couple of years ago is currently being field tested for distribution.

Caveat Emptor = Let the Buyer Beware.

Rowan

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

Ok, thanks Rowan.
I edited the initial message, so let's start now !
*hears two shy yipees from the back of the room*

 

[PTeppic]

In line with what else we have seen of Goa'uld hardware, whilst still thinking about the other bits:

a) it typically won't need to go through the gate - Goa'uld technology generally doesn't seem to - we presume there is a transport ship technology even for larger vehicles

b) Jaffa are entirely worthless, so it won't get shielding, unless a Goa'uld him/herself is onboard

c) from memory, and in line with (b), even heavy armour may be unnecessary... It would come down to what the vehicle was being designed for - it is almost superfluous for most species-suppression units, since they are tend to be technologically behind the Goa'uld. Something designed to be used against SG-1/earth, or perhaps the Tok'ra/Asgard or indeed in the endless Jaffa/Goa'uld wars, that would need more defence.

You could easily imagine the tanks from ST:E1:TPM that were used on Naboo being Jaffa: small crew, heavy armour, Goa'uld energy powered with hover technology, shields, and a Jaffa cannon on the top, with those shock grenades available for mortar launching. Maybe even some zats, or a beefed up version, as support weapons.

 

[Svarog]

Keep in mind that there must be a balance. you just can't put tons of weapons along with the strongest armour, the better shield, the most powerfull that and the greatest this.

Plus why couldn't it have the best armour and the best weapons. As long as it has the reactor power to fire the weapons and power the shields whilst pushing it along, turning on the stealth etc then its fine, provided it can fit through the gate.

Jaffa are entirely worthless, so it won't get shielding, unless a Goa'uld him/herself is onboard

You get shields on jaffa-only ships, why not a tank designed to back-up an army on a higher technology planet?

it typically won't need to go through the gate - Goa'uld technology generally doesn't seem to - we presume there is a transport ship technology even for larger vehicles

I seem to remember a discussion a while back saying that the Al'kesh bombers weren't space capable but could be attached to a Hat'tak or Cheops class ship. On the other hand though I think the purpose of this discussion was to branch off from the gate-glider topic and talk about a ground vehicle for gate-assault purposes. Personally i don't see the point, worthless jaffa army can be sent instead, why waste resources on a tank when you just send in easily replaced jaffa troops in. They don't need to be repaired afterwards, they can go through rough terrain and can go into small holes like tunnels. If they need additional back-up a gate-glider or a staff cannon could do well rather than an armoured assault tank.

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by Svarog
You get shields on jaffa-only ships, why not a tank designed to back-up an army on a higher technology planet?

I'vew not seen any of S6 yet, but I don't recall any. Where do we see this?

 

[Svarog]

I thought ships without system lords or commanding jaffa were generally jaffa only. Like that ship in the Svarog eppy.

 

[PTeppic]

:blush: which one is that? :blush:

 

[Rowan]

Please remember spoliers...

Please remember to post spoilers for any S5 or S6 episodes as there are folks here on the board who haven't seen some of them yet.

Rowan

 

[Svarog]

1. Role
Reconaissance, espionage

2. Shape
Probably some kind of mech suit

3. Symbolism
Well since you can't really see it, it doesn't symbolise anything other than invisible spirits

4. Gate Factor
Well it's not that hard for a suit to walk through a gate, considering how much espionage would be done in narrow Goa'uld halls

5. Coolness
Very-a sleek black mech suit when the cloaking's off, agile and moves quickly

6. Powering
This is would need a lot of power. Mostly for the cloaking but also for various gadgets attached.

7. Accessibility
It's a suit, you wear it

10. Locomotion and Mobility
It probably has two appendages which touch the ground, i'll call them legs. Probably got extra power to move quicker. Perhaps a jetpack

11. Weaponry
He'd need a bomb or two to enter various areas, a powerful, but small weapon, a wide area zat? A plasma cannon?

12. Armour
Wouldn't need much, only the cloaking

13. Shields
nah, waste of energy

14. Sensors and Communications
A smaller version of the long range Goa'uld communications device (the round ball thingy)

 

[PTeppic]

I can easily imagine a Tok'ra or fully-fledged Goa'uld using one of those REALLY cool sounding suits, but I can't imagine those same people letting a plebian Jaffa anywhere near one! As far as I can see, their sole role is huge-number staff-cannon fodder, or possibly death gliders.

Question: why would it need all the legs and so on - it really just comes down to a personal cloaking device? The powerful lifting, or speed etc., - specifically for what purpose in the surveillance role?

 

[Svarog]

<Season 6>







You know i was thinking. This suit sounds identical to the ashrak in Season 6's eppy with the Tok'ra and jaffa in the Alpha base. I guess it doesn't really make sense for the Goa'uld to have a suit for jaffa. Although it comes in handy for people like Nurrti. With the cloak alone she wrecked havoc, imagine her with a big gun and if she could fly and run really fast.

 

[shu_hunter]

Kinda like... A REETOU!!!

~Shu Hunter
:upto: Stargate fan{atic}

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

In line with what else we have seen of Goa'uld hardware, whilst still thinking about the other bits:

a) it typically won't need to go through the gate - Goa'uld technology generally doesn't seem to - we presume there is a transport ship technology even for larger vehicles

b) Jaffa are entirely worthless, so it won't get shielding, unless a Goa'uld him/herself is onboard

c) from memory, and in line with (b), even heavy armour may be unnecessary... It would come down to what the vehicle was being designed for - it is almost superfluous for most species-suppression units, since they are tend to be technologically behind the Goa'uld. Something designed to be used against SG-1/earth, or perhaps the Tok'ra/Asgard or indeed in the endless Jaffa/Goa'uld wars, that would need more defence.

You could easily imagine the tanks from ST:E1:TPM that were used on Naboo being Jaffa: small crew, heavy armour, Goa'uld energy powered with hover technology, shields, and a Jaffa cannon on the top, with those shock grenades available for mortar launching. Maybe even some zats, or a beefed up version, as support weapons.

a. It doesn't really need to, but it still a BIG advantage if it can, and manoeuvering a ground vehicle through a gate would be far easier that precisely aiming at the gate, even with the help of a computer, at high velocities.

b. Mmm... humans are entirely worthless, but Jaffas still holds more esteem in the Lords' hearts than humans. Not that much, it's true, but it's still there. Not even talking about the Setesh/Horus/Serpent guards, which could be the only ones allowed to drive such ground units since they're High Jaffas.

c. Firstly, if some of the cultures governed by the Goa'ulds weren't really highly devlopped, it's not the case of all cultures.
Secondly, I seem to remember that various System Lords have been warring for ages, and such vehicles would have been used given the advantage they represent, especially to sneak under planetary shields.

Btw, your comparison with TPM's AATs doesn't stand, since the AATs are heavy armoured antigrav tanks with much more firepower than a Jaffa could ever have and offers much protection than a mere armour, which btw doesn't cover all the body of the Jaffa and can be pierced by SG-1's guns (something 90...).

***

Plus why couldn't it have the best armour and the best weapons. As long as it has the reactor power to fire the weapons and power the shields whilst pushing it along, turning on the stealth etc then its fine, provided it can fit through the gate.

I'm talking about balance because I noticed that for example, in Star Wars, a lot of the fans or some of the EU designer simply follow the rule of the ubber vessel, with more armour, more shields, more fire power and yet the ship remains quite identical in its volume and shapes or isn't devlopped enough, forgettting anything about power requirements and minimal room needed for additionnal hardware.

You get shields on jaffa-only ships, why not a tank designed to back-up an army on a higher technology planet?

Are you're refering to the gliders or the Al'kesh bombers or are you refering to a warship piloted by Jaffas only (seems to) ?

1. Personally I don't see the point, worthless jaffa army can be sent instead. Why waste resources on a tank when you just send in easily replaced jaffa troops in ?
2. They don't need to be repaired afterwards.
3. They can go through rough terrain and can go into small holes like tunnels.
4. If they need additional back-up a gate-glider or a staff cannon could do well rather than an armoured assault tank.

1. Jaffas have their weakness.
First because most of them are simply carrying light armour wich doesn't cover all their body (same applies to the High Jaffas such as Horus guards for example). The tank will protect efficiently.
Secondly because they don't seem to carry that much equipment, what a tank will do.
Thirdly, following your logic of useless Jaffas, the Lords would only let them use wooden gliders and limited quantities of rock chunks to throw at their oponents below, just like Ewoks would do.
2. Repairs are not a problem, otherwise the Goa'ulds wouldn't use big guns mounted turrets, Death/Gate Gliders and Ha'tak/Cheops warships.
3. Indeed, but tell me where did you see, on Earth, a nation which refused to built tanks because they couldn't go into small tunnels ? This is basically a moot point, since for various, infantry is always needed, which has nothing to do with tanks.
4. A Gate Glider has lots of disadvantages. For example, its weaponry is quite weak in comparison of the fire power delivered by heavy staffs like the ones used in turrets.
With gliders, you have much more trouble to aim at given targets, since you're gliding.
Btw, any addition of armour, shielding or weaponry will drasticly reduce maniability, acceleration and deceleration. it's not by pure random that the Al'kesh bombers were created and were made bigger.
Unfortunately, with those ships, if you want to unleash troops, you have to land, which makes the bomber or the glider useless and become great targets. And anyway, the glider and bombers aren't designed to be troop transports. That's why the landers were created, and that what the tanks could do.
About the turrets, it's true, they're more powerfull, but they're static and need to be carried, wich is unconvenient. And even the big guns, depending how they're used, offer from a limited to no protection at all for the gunner(s). Btw they seem to be quite weak in terms of solidity.

1. Role
Reconaissance, espionage

2. Shape
Probably some kind of mech suit

3. Symbolism
Well since you can't really see it, it doesn't symbolise anything other than invisible spirits

4. Gate Factor
Well it's not that hard for a suit to walk through a gate, considering how much espionage would be done in narrow Goa'uld halls

5. Coolness
Very-a sleek black mech suit when the cloaking's off, agile and moves quickly

6. Powering
This is would need a lot of power. Mostly for the cloaking but also for various gadgets attached.

7. Accessibility
It's a suit, you wear it

10. Locomotion and Mobility
It probably has two appendages which touch the ground, i'll call them legs. Probably got extra power to move quicker. Perhaps a jetpack

11. Weaponry
He'd need a bomb or two to enter various areas, a powerful, but small weapon, a wide area zat? A plasma cannon?

12. Armour
Wouldn't need much, only the cloaking

13. Shields
nah, waste of energy

14. Sensors and Communications
A smaller version of the long range Goa'uld communications device (the round ball thingy)

1. Ok, so this is some kind of scout unit.
2. Ok.
3. Cloaking technology ? Ok, but would the Lords allo their troops to use such high-tech devices ? Maybe just the First Primes could be allowed to do so.
4. Right.
5. Will it be able to retract itself like the helmts of Ra's High Jaffas ?
6. Sure, but then where would it be stored since it is only a suit. You have an issue here, safe if you include some kind of heavy backpack (since your suit is mechanized, it should still be able to carry a given weighted package, but it could also reduce the maniability and the velocity).
7. Ok.
10. See 6. The problem with jetpacks is that it's another system which already adds another load of hardware which will swallow even moee energy.
11. Sounds nice, but if it's a scout suit, I bet that it couldn't carry too much weapons.
12. Light armour would be a sufficient limit but shouldn't be exceded.
13. Ok. Logic.
14. Ok.

 

[Ko'or Oragahn]

... sorry, a problem of edition. I couldn't erase my post.
Anyway, I will soon reveal my own design.