7.08: Sleeper
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Highlander II
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OMG!!
For a while, I was a bit confused - okay - more like trying to figure out which was which and such
<slight aside> Can I just say that UPN sucks at putting the promos together (or whoever does 'em) - b/c they generally say 'nothing' about the episode - and I really hate that - mostly b/c it can get you hyped about a stupid ep and not so hyped about a great one - and it's just totally wrong - just don't give us anything - that would be better, IMO<end slight aside>
Anyway --
was totally digging the 'multiple' Spikes! (this also explains a bit about why James didn't have any lines in the previous ep - they had to go 'Spike-light' b/c he was in so much of the dialogue / action this week - which doesn't bother me as much as the 'Spike ficus' from last season) -- not to mention the 'hip-showing' Spike when Anya was going through his room -
How unconvincing was she - 'I want you, I need you, oh baby, oh baby' (no, that's not what she said, but you get the idea) --
Spike: I need my pants.
(sorry- just a really good line - delivered so nicely)
I did catch that that song was what was keying off Spike, though - it was just too obvious - why? well, b/c Spike doesn't randomly hum or sing while he's digging a hole - hell, he doesn't hum or sing anyway - 'cept when under that funky spell, but that's a whole other story ---
And, might I say - finally an episode played up to be about Spike that was actually *about* Spike-- about time (and don't anyone feed me that stuff about "Fool For Love" being about Spike - it wasn't - it was all about Buffy and what she wanted and what she wanted to know - yeah, I'm tetchy on this) --
So - good stuff?
* Spike Spike and more Spike -
* Spike in vamp face
* Spike killing a vamp
* Spike cowering in the corner b/c he realized what he'd done
* not-remembering-Spike
* Spike pushing Anya away
* Spike punching Xander
* Curled up in a blanket Spike
* Did I mention Spike?
No - really - there was other good stuff too - Willow and Dawn talking to each other about what they saw and how it wasn't real - it was the Big Bad - and later, Willow saying that just b/c the ppl weren't real, doesn't mean that what they said wasn't true. Xander telling Buffy that he really didn't like the 'helping of Spike' (character consistency); Buffy not really sure what she should do, but knowing she had to do something - (hey, I like heroes w/ flaws); the argument btwn Buffy and Spike - him reiterating that no one else could mean to him what she did (and yeah, arguing canon, I'm not a shipper), that he could never (even tho he didn't say it this way) love anyone else - his speech about the chip and his soul -
The scenes where Spike starts to remember stuff - and he's in the Bronze and makes that phone call -- anyone else know that he was calling Buffy? Totally got that - but it did make sense - who else would he call? Who else could help? Everyone else had turned on him - well, Buffy kinda had too, but she was the one who insisted that Spike get out of the basement - which we now find out wasn't the real cause of his 'crazy' - but, I'm guessing it didn't help. When he takes Buffy to that house and he remembers ppl being there. Then, he's all vamped out and ready to bite, and he tastes Buffy's blood and everything rushes back - is this one of those 'good over evil' things? Slayer's blood is stronger? Or does it have something to do w/ her feelings for him (whatever they are?). And now we know who the heck he was always talking to! Himself! (sort of) Then he's cowering in the corner, and offers himself, he wants Buffy to kill him b/c he knows what he did and he doesn't want to have to live with it - which leads to 'the hardest thing to do in this world, is to live in it' - ie: suck it up, Spike, you did the crime, you do the time - even though you were under the influence of an evil baddie - you still are responsible and you're gonna suffer the guilt for it.
And I was almost half sure Buffy was gonna hug him - kinda glad she didn't - woulda ruined the whole thing -- but he looked so pitiful sitting there -- <g>
And at the end - Xander and everyone else, still not liking the idea of keeping Spike so close, but somewhat agreeing that the only way to figure out this whole Big Bad, is to keep Spike around and find out what he knows.
<deep breath>
Long enough? See - give me a good solid plot and I'll have fun -- (ok - so having lots of Spike didn't hurt any - bout time we got some development on him)
For a while, I was a bit confused - okay - more like trying to figure out which was which and such
<slight aside> Can I just say that UPN sucks at putting the promos together (or whoever does 'em) - b/c they generally say 'nothing' about the episode - and I really hate that - mostly b/c it can get you hyped about a stupid ep and not so hyped about a great one - and it's just totally wrong - just don't give us anything - that would be better, IMO<end slight aside>
Anyway --
was totally digging the 'multiple' Spikes! (this also explains a bit about why James didn't have any lines in the previous ep - they had to go 'Spike-light' b/c he was in so much of the dialogue / action this week - which doesn't bother me as much as the 'Spike ficus' from last season) -- not to mention the 'hip-showing' Spike when Anya was going through his room -
How unconvincing was she - 'I want you, I need you, oh baby, oh baby' (no, that's not what she said, but you get the idea) --
Spike: I need my pants.
(sorry- just a really good line - delivered so nicely)
I did catch that that song was what was keying off Spike, though - it was just too obvious - why? well, b/c Spike doesn't randomly hum or sing while he's digging a hole - hell, he doesn't hum or sing anyway - 'cept when under that funky spell, but that's a whole other story ---
And, might I say - finally an episode played up to be about Spike that was actually *about* Spike-- about time (and don't anyone feed me that stuff about "Fool For Love" being about Spike - it wasn't - it was all about Buffy and what she wanted and what she wanted to know - yeah, I'm tetchy on this) --
So - good stuff?
* Spike Spike and more Spike -
* Spike in vamp face
* Spike killing a vamp
* Spike cowering in the corner b/c he realized what he'd done
* not-remembering-Spike
* Spike pushing Anya away
* Spike punching Xander
* Curled up in a blanket Spike
* Did I mention Spike?
No - really - there was other good stuff too - Willow and Dawn talking to each other about what they saw and how it wasn't real - it was the Big Bad - and later, Willow saying that just b/c the ppl weren't real, doesn't mean that what they said wasn't true. Xander telling Buffy that he really didn't like the 'helping of Spike' (character consistency); Buffy not really sure what she should do, but knowing she had to do something - (hey, I like heroes w/ flaws); the argument btwn Buffy and Spike - him reiterating that no one else could mean to him what she did (and yeah, arguing canon, I'm not a shipper), that he could never (even tho he didn't say it this way) love anyone else - his speech about the chip and his soul -
The scenes where Spike starts to remember stuff - and he's in the Bronze and makes that phone call -- anyone else know that he was calling Buffy? Totally got that - but it did make sense - who else would he call? Who else could help? Everyone else had turned on him - well, Buffy kinda had too, but she was the one who insisted that Spike get out of the basement - which we now find out wasn't the real cause of his 'crazy' - but, I'm guessing it didn't help. When he takes Buffy to that house and he remembers ppl being there. Then, he's all vamped out and ready to bite, and he tastes Buffy's blood and everything rushes back - is this one of those 'good over evil' things? Slayer's blood is stronger? Or does it have something to do w/ her feelings for him (whatever they are?). And now we know who the heck he was always talking to! Himself! (sort of) Then he's cowering in the corner, and offers himself, he wants Buffy to kill him b/c he knows what he did and he doesn't want to have to live with it - which leads to 'the hardest thing to do in this world, is to live in it' - ie: suck it up, Spike, you did the crime, you do the time - even though you were under the influence of an evil baddie - you still are responsible and you're gonna suffer the guilt for it.
And I was almost half sure Buffy was gonna hug him - kinda glad she didn't - woulda ruined the whole thing -- but he looked so pitiful sitting there -- <g>
And at the end - Xander and everyone else, still not liking the idea of keeping Spike so close, but somewhat agreeing that the only way to figure out this whole Big Bad, is to keep Spike around and find out what he knows.
<deep breath>
Long enough? See - give me a good solid plot and I'll have fun -- (ok - so having lots of Spike didn't hurt any - bout time we got some development on him)
In reality when anybody goes out at murders a lot of people because they were influenced by someone else, it didn't help Patty Hearst (the Millionaire heiress who was kidnapped by the SLA and turned towards her captors in helping to rob banks). One has to wonder what the legal consequences of Spikes actions should be. Could Buffy be guilty of abetting a felon?angelle myst
Ash
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The key words there are "in reality". Its not reality. Its a show, and its Buffy and Spike, not rl ppl even if the basis of the show is rl problems and influences etc.Originally posted by tabuno
xxx
Even so, Buffy has always treated demons as an extra-legal situation. Only when a human has been killed by a human has she considered calling in the police. Even then, it never seems to get past the "considering" phase.
She didn't go to the police when Faith killed the Deptuy Mayor or when she knew that The Evil Nerds killed Katrina. And she turned Willow over to Giles for rehab after she killed Warren. (Joss is a great one for changing the rules to suit the story.)
She has never even considered involving the authorities to deal with demons.
"Get them involved, you'll get them killed." She told Joyce in Becoming pt. II.
As for Spike, in this particular instance, precedence has been set by Angel/Angelus. Buffy gave him a pass when he was under the influence of evil forces, knowing that he wouldn't kill otherwise.
She didn't go to the police when Faith killed the Deptuy Mayor or when she knew that The Evil Nerds killed Katrina. And she turned Willow over to Giles for rehab after she killed Warren. (Joss is a great one for changing the rules to suit the story.)
She has never even considered involving the authorities to deal with demons.
"Get them involved, you'll get them killed." She told Joyce in Becoming pt. II.
As for Spike, in this particular instance, precedence has been set by Angel/Angelus. Buffy gave him a pass when he was under the influence of evil forces, knowing that he wouldn't kill otherwise.
Highlander II
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Okay - totally not following in the line of the current discussion, but something I meant to throw in yesterday --
anyone else notice that the morphy-not-Buffy used the same lines to convince Spike to bite the girl that Spike used during the attempted rape?
*****
And - to add to the discussion -
1st, a question: Why does everyone always wanna kill Spike when they were all up in arms at Xander for wanting to do the same to Angel?
Gotta say I'm loving the double standard here -
(more than a little annoyed at the repeated 'oh, just stake Spike already' comments I've been reading)
He made a pretty good argument when Buffy jumped to the immediate conclusion that Spike was responsible for everything before finding the evidence - love the accuse first, ask questions later method of investigation that they follow here on BtVS. He told her that he got the soul on his own - for Buffy, and that he was more than a little confused that she would think he could find someone that meant more to him than she did -
Though, yeah, I can understand Buffy's thinking that, esp since she didn't want him to care about her anyway -
At least they're consistent - Buffy never believed Spike when he told the truth before, why would she change now?
******
Oh - and the other thing that I wanted to comment on - a capella Spike!! <sigh> nothing like a guy who can sing on key w/o the aid of instrumental accompaniment!!
anyone else notice that the morphy-not-Buffy used the same lines to convince Spike to bite the girl that Spike used during the attempted rape?
*****
And - to add to the discussion -
1st, a question: Why does everyone always wanna kill Spike when they were all up in arms at Xander for wanting to do the same to Angel?
Gotta say I'm loving the double standard here -
(more than a little annoyed at the repeated 'oh, just stake Spike already' comments I've been reading)
He made a pretty good argument when Buffy jumped to the immediate conclusion that Spike was responsible for everything before finding the evidence - love the accuse first, ask questions later method of investigation that they follow here on BtVS. He told her that he got the soul on his own - for Buffy, and that he was more than a little confused that she would think he could find someone that meant more to him than she did -
Though, yeah, I can understand Buffy's thinking that, esp since she didn't want him to care about her anyway -
At least they're consistent - Buffy never believed Spike when he told the truth before, why would she change now?
******
Oh - and the other thing that I wanted to comment on - a capella Spike!! <sigh> nothing like a guy who can sing on key w/o the aid of instrumental accompaniment!!
[Highlander II: anyone else notice that the morphy-not-Buffy used the same lines to convince Spike to bite the girl that Spike used during the attempted rape?]
I hadn't noticed that, but can't say its a surprise. The Big Bad seems to be very well-versed in everything about our heroes. Perhaps in some way, the BB has an ability to tap into everything that the dead know.
Speaking of things that sound familiar, in reference to the discussion about who the BB really is, that we had after Conversations with Dead People, did you notice? -
Hmmmm.... very interesting.
---------------------
[H2: Why does everyone always wanna kill Spike when they were all up in arms at Xander for wanting to do the same to Angel?]
Well, it's hardly fair to compare Spike & Angel. They may have some similarity of circumstance, but their history is entirely different. Most notably, Angel first appeared to the Scoobies as a hero and had a temporary relapse into homicidal maniac. Whereas, Spike appeared as a homicical maniac and his good acts have often been due to questionable motives.
Its perfectly logical to question EVERYTHING that Spike does, since his record of truly selfless acts is rather lacking.
---------------------
[H2: more than a little annoyed at the repeated 'oh, just stake Spike already' comments I've been reading]
I think that's mostly a reaction to how many, many, many times Buffy has threatened to spike Spike. It's a dare to prove she isn't all talk and no action when it comes to killing Spike.
I hadn't noticed that, but can't say its a surprise. The Big Bad seems to be very well-versed in everything about our heroes. Perhaps in some way, the BB has an ability to tap into everything that the dead know.
Speaking of things that sound familiar, in reference to the discussion about who the BB really is, that we had after Conversations with Dead People, did you notice? -
The First Evil, from 3.10 Amends: This isn't the plan... But it'll do.
The Big Bad, from 7.09 Sleeper: You're going against the plan... but we can make it work.
The Big Bad, from 7.09 Sleeper: You're going against the plan... but we can make it work.
Hmmmm.... very interesting.
---------------------
[H2: Why does everyone always wanna kill Spike when they were all up in arms at Xander for wanting to do the same to Angel?]
Well, it's hardly fair to compare Spike & Angel. They may have some similarity of circumstance, but their history is entirely different. Most notably, Angel first appeared to the Scoobies as a hero and had a temporary relapse into homicidal maniac. Whereas, Spike appeared as a homicical maniac and his good acts have often been due to questionable motives.
Its perfectly logical to question EVERYTHING that Spike does, since his record of truly selfless acts is rather lacking.
---------------------
[H2: more than a little annoyed at the repeated 'oh, just stake Spike already' comments I've been reading]
I think that's mostly a reaction to how many, many, many times Buffy has threatened to spike Spike. It's a dare to prove she isn't all talk and no action when it comes to killing Spike.
Highlander II
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Oh - I wasn't surprised, just something I picked up on -
And yeah, I can see the 'morphy' knowing all that stuff - it does seem to know quite a bit --
Someone else pointed that out - I don't recall who, but yes - it is quite interesting...
Oh, I understand that it's logical to question Spike's motives and his actions - I was of the mind that they should have been doing it all along - but, then again, I want evil Spike --
And your argument seems to support that 'ppl' (term used loosely here) can't change - ie: one can't go from being a bad guy to being a good guy and vice versa - thoughts and opinions change - and I'm not saying that they shouldn't question Spike's actions, etc, just that if they're gonna go w/ the soul=good argument, instead of 'rushing to judgement' just *because* he's Spike, they give him the opportunity to present his case - and Buffy has done this, but the fans - they're not so lenient (some - not all and not most). I know they don't deal w/ baddies on BtVS w/ a court of law - but maybe extend a smidge of the 'benefit of the doubt' - which is what Buffy is doing - (if I'm seeing her right)
And why not compare the two? The same thing is happening w/ Spike that happened w/ Angel -
Angel was good, and they were automatically giving him the benefit b/c they couldn't believe that he'd turned evil - he had a soul, he was the good guy ----
Now, Spike has always been 'bad,' so, he's given the benefit of the doubt, but in the direction of 'he's evil, he's been evil, he's gonna do evil stuff' - soul or not ---
So, Spike's being treated in the same 'manner' as Angel was - just Spike was evil first, Angel was good (or, that's how they first saw him) - it's that whole first impressions thing -
(or, I might just be rambling now)
Well - that may be - but she seems to always stop when he says something about his feelings ----
So, my thoughts, this is an issue on Buffy's end - (which, I guess is what they're saying, but - whatever - I'll never support the staking of Spike)
slayerette
The court jester of crazy
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Kay,
I'm all for "it's all about Spike" however, I was more
intrigued by the last randam,murdered girl...
Did it look like that was a watcher who walking in &
consequently, got axed?
Theory? Future slayers getting taken out of the running
so Buffy can really be all alone at the end?
Also, & maybe this is a bit off the subject but (this is me we're talkin to)hee,hee,
okay, bye
p.s would'nt it be cool if giles returned to sunnydale as a goust.
a good one to help of cource...
I'm all for "it's all about Spike" however, I was more
intrigued by the last randam,murdered girl...
Did it look like that was a watcher who walking in &
consequently, got axed?
Theory? Future slayers getting taken out of the running
so Buffy can really be all alone at the end?
Also, & maybe this is a bit off the subject but (this is me we're talkin to)hee,hee,
you know how there has been the multiable past bads in this season (to cunfuse us as to this seasons bad) well, in all the spike confused, conversations he always ends up talking to
buffy. this could be shape shifter,yes. or it could be that this seasons big bad is buffy herself??!! either her or a evil essence
like when she returned from the dead (the most recent time that is) Because when bratty girl dawn was warned that buffy would
turn on her. Maybe the mom goust was really talking about evil buffy?
buffy. this could be shape shifter,yes. or it could be that this seasons big bad is buffy herself??!! either her or a evil essence
like when she returned from the dead (the most recent time that is) Because when bratty girl dawn was warned that buffy would
turn on her. Maybe the mom goust was really talking about evil buffy?
p.s would'nt it be cool if giles returned to sunnydale as a goust.
a good one to help of cource...
Highlander II
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uh - what is your spoiler spoiling?
is it something from the ep? something from later in the season? or just your speculation on things?
is it something from the ep? something from later in the season? or just your speculation on things?
[Highlander II: And your argument seems to support that 'ppl' (term used loosely here) can't change...]
People change, but the nature of the change can't be predicted. And the more ingrained the behavior the more difficult the task of changing, the more easy to backslide.
[H2: Angel was good, and they were automatically giving him the benefit b/c they couldn't believe that he'd turned evil - he had a soul, he was the good guy ----]
Not quite accurate. Giles and the others were very wary of Angel in the beginning. It was his heroic actions that won them over, not some philosophical arguments about souls. Even Giles slowly began to trust Angel to protect Buffy. And of course, Xander always thought that Angel could change to evil more easily than the others believed. Although some of Xander's concerns can be attributed to feelings of jealousy.
But it was Angel's actions, not words that convinced them.
[H2: And why not compare the two? The same thing is happening w/ Spike that happened w/ Angel]
Yes, except that it happened to Angel over 100 years ago. We only have sketchy details of what Angel was like at the same point that Spike is now, so we can't compare the two with any accuracy.
Angel had a vamp "support group" that he tried to hang with, Spike only has the Soobies, if he can be said to "have" them.
Angel withdrew from contact with the human world for nearly a century.
Angel was contacted by a representative of the good guys and trained to be a warrior for good.
Spike's situation is only superficially like Angel's.
[H2: I'll never support the staking of Spike]
I'm not sure that "they" all mean that. The other side of "Stake him already!" is "Then stop saying that you're going to stake him - when we all know you don't mean it!"
[slayerette: Did it look like that was a watcher who walking in & consequently, got axed?]
Our favorite Watcher looks to get axed. Are you ready? All together now, real loud, everyone yell - "Giles! Duck!"
But you're right, it looks like young women and their Watchers, ala Kendra, are being targeted (GILES: "You too."). Which makes the dying comment of Robson all the more interesting -
"Gather them."
People change, but the nature of the change can't be predicted. And the more ingrained the behavior the more difficult the task of changing, the more easy to backslide.
[H2: Angel was good, and they were automatically giving him the benefit b/c they couldn't believe that he'd turned evil - he had a soul, he was the good guy ----]
Not quite accurate. Giles and the others were very wary of Angel in the beginning. It was his heroic actions that won them over, not some philosophical arguments about souls. Even Giles slowly began to trust Angel to protect Buffy. And of course, Xander always thought that Angel could change to evil more easily than the others believed. Although some of Xander's concerns can be attributed to feelings of jealousy.
But it was Angel's actions, not words that convinced them.
[H2: And why not compare the two? The same thing is happening w/ Spike that happened w/ Angel]
Yes, except that it happened to Angel over 100 years ago. We only have sketchy details of what Angel was like at the same point that Spike is now, so we can't compare the two with any accuracy.
Angel had a vamp "support group" that he tried to hang with, Spike only has the Soobies, if he can be said to "have" them.
Angel withdrew from contact with the human world for nearly a century.
Angel was contacted by a representative of the good guys and trained to be a warrior for good.
Spike's situation is only superficially like Angel's.
[H2: I'll never support the staking of Spike]
I'm not sure that "they" all mean that. The other side of "Stake him already!" is "Then stop saying that you're going to stake him - when we all know you don't mean it!"
[slayerette: Did it look like that was a watcher who walking in & consequently, got axed?]
Our favorite Watcher looks to get axed. Are you ready? All together now, real loud, everyone yell - "Giles! Duck!"
But you're right, it looks like young women and their Watchers, ala Kendra, are being targeted (GILES: "You too."). Which makes the dying comment of Robson all the more interesting -
"Gather them."
Damn it, if Giles is dead I'm going to be really annoyed. Stop killing off characters *I* care about (Tara, Jonathon and hopefully not Giles, all in half a season), kill off someone nearly everyone cares about, like Spike (at least I didn't say to stake him ). Finally someone (ok two people now while I was typing this) said something about Giles, I was beginnig to wonder if I saw a different version than everyone else.
Was Spike being controlled by the big bad or just coerced into killing people then having his memory wiped? If he was only coerced than he is evil, even if it was Buffy telling him to do it.
). Finally someone (ok two people now while I was typing this) said something about Giles, I was beginnig to wonder if I saw a different version than everyone else.Was Spike being controlled by the big bad or just coerced into killing people then having his memory wiped? If he was only coerced than he is evil, even if it was Buffy telling him to do it.
Highlander II
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The title of this makes more sense after seeing the next episode - I won't spoil it - but I get this title now ---
little smaug
Fire and Brimstone
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The bit that really confused me was Spike's chip - it worked when Spike punched Xander, but not when he was biting/ attacking the girls. Does that mean that the chip isn't working properly, or that Big Bad has the power to turn it on and off?
Highlander II
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Only thing I'll tell you on that point is 'wait a few episodes' --
that doesn't spoil anything --- no really, it doesn't ---
that doesn't spoil anything --- no really, it doesn't ---
markpud
Former Ascifi.com mod
Hey, another good episode, BtVS seems to be picking up nicely for the final season.
Have to admit that when Spike caught Anya in his trousers (if you get my meaning) it was just the perfect response from her, wanting sex!! Only Anya could have gotten away with it, even if she wasn't exactly convincing..
Interesting to note that Spike's chip is still working when he knocks out Xander - or is it? Maybe it's just me, but i've been suspecting that he's been faking it recently... But then again why would he fake the pain after he'd already knocked Xander out - unless he wasn't sure that Xander was really out cold and wanted to make sure his illusion was maintained.
Or it could be that the BB is able to supress the chip while Spike is under it's influence??
And Giles at the end I'm hoping they haven't killed him! He's survived a good few whackings in the past, so here's hoping... It'll be good to have him back in Sunnydale which is what it seems to be leading to (assuming he survives!)
Have to admit that when Spike caught Anya in his trousers (if you get my meaning
) it was just the perfect response from her, wanting sex!! Only Anya could have gotten away with it, even if she wasn't exactly convincing..Interesting to note that Spike's chip is still working when he knocks out Xander - or is it? Maybe it's just me, but i've been suspecting that he's been faking it recently... But then again why would he fake the pain after he'd already knocked Xander out - unless he wasn't sure that Xander was really out cold and wanted to make sure his illusion was maintained.
Or it could be that the BB is able to supress the chip while Spike is under it's influence??
And Giles at the end
I'm hoping they haven't killed him! He's survived a good few whackings in the past, so here's hoping... It'll be good to have him back in Sunnydale which is what it seems to be leading to (assuming he survives!)good ep, but a bit confusing - liked the reappearance of evil Spike or Big Bad being Spike or whatever it was and controlling Spike to kill again, well anything that brings about two Spikes gotta be good. Plus scene with Anya - v.funny - loved her really unconvincing act then being really offended when he said no thanks. I thought William was really coming out there - I mean since when has Spike used phrases like ' It's quite fetching actually'. And then also the interaction between him and Buffy, which kind of touched on Buffy's feelings for Spike but never quite explored them - typically tantalising us as usual. Loved Spike's line about it still being all about Buffy.
Couple of things about the ep -
what was the significance of the song - is this anything to do with Dru or have I completely missed the point?
Buffy's double standards - when Anya was killing people, Buffy didn't consider did she need help - nope her solution was to grab the nearest pointy thing and go hell for leather after Anya. But oh yes, when it's spike different story altogether. And I don't buy the 'the hardest thing in this world is to live in it' yeah, yeah, yeah - she just can't bring herself to do it. I mean I don't want spike staked, but she needn't blether on about her having to make the decisions and crossing lines either, cos she's still as subjective as everybody else.
The thing about Spike tasting Buffy's blood and then his memory comes back - could that be that cos of his past hunting and killing Slayers - it's a powerful sense of recognition bringing back what he is and what he's done, including the 10 girls he killed.
Oh and Giles -
hope he's okay...I'd say we might need him come the end of the season/world/ "from beneath it devours" extravaganza...
Couple of things about the ep -
what was the significance of the song - is this anything to do with Dru or have I completely missed the point?
Buffy's double standards - when Anya was killing people, Buffy didn't consider did she need help - nope her solution was to grab the nearest pointy thing and go hell for leather after Anya. But oh yes, when it's spike different story altogether. And I don't buy the 'the hardest thing in this world is to live in it' yeah, yeah, yeah - she just can't bring herself to do it. I mean I don't want spike staked, but she needn't blether on about her having to make the decisions and crossing lines either, cos she's still as subjective as everybody else.
The thing about Spike tasting Buffy's blood and then his memory comes back - could that be that cos of his past hunting and killing Slayers - it's a powerful sense of recognition bringing back what he is and what he's done, including the 10 girls he killed.
Oh and Giles -
hope he's okay...I'd say we might need him come the end of the season/world/ "from beneath it devours" extravaganza...
"Giles can't be dead, Giles can't be dead, Giles can't be dead"
If I keep repeating this, will it come true?
Still, it certainly doesn't look good for Ripper - surely if the BBC tv show "Ripper" is ever to come about - and Joss says he is still interested AFAIK - then he just plain can't be dead.
I am also very confused about the whole chip thing - to be honest, I have seen the next two eps and I still don't really understand it.
This episode really was Spike-tastic wasn't it?
Anya was pretty funny - although I saw the shock cut of Spike grabbing her arm coming from a mile off, mind you, sometimes the predictable way is the best way to go!
I get the whole "Stake Spike already" thing - I agree that Buffy is beginning to get a bit repetitive, and I am amazed he hasn't come a lot closer to getting staked recently - especially after what he did to her last season.
I find it interesting compared to her big stand-off with Anya a few weeks ago. Xander's argument then was that Buffy was too keen to kill Anya, and not prepared to give her more of a chance. Buffy brought up her relationship with Angel as an example of making that kind of difficult choice, but I wonder if perhaps a comparison with Spike in this instance is a closer analogy. She seems to definitely be giving him the benefit of the doubt that she never really gave to Anya.
If I keep repeating this, will it come true?
Still, it certainly doesn't look good for Ripper - surely if the BBC tv show "Ripper" is ever to come about - and Joss says he is still interested AFAIK - then he just plain can't be dead.
I am also very confused about the whole chip thing - to be honest, I have seen the next two eps and I still don't really understand it.
This episode really was Spike-tastic wasn't it?
Anya was pretty funny - although I saw the shock cut of Spike grabbing her arm coming from a mile off, mind you, sometimes the predictable way is the best way to go!
I get the whole "Stake Spike already" thing - I agree that Buffy is beginning to get a bit repetitive, and I am amazed he hasn't come a lot closer to getting staked recently - especially after what he did to her last season.
I find it interesting compared to her big stand-off with Anya a few weeks ago. Xander's argument then was that Buffy was too keen to kill Anya, and not prepared to give her more of a chance. Buffy brought up her relationship with Angel as an example of making that kind of difficult choice, but I wonder if perhaps a comparison with Spike in this instance is a closer analogy. She seems to definitely be giving him the benefit of the doubt that she never really gave to Anya.
markpud
Former Ascifi.com mod
I think there has to be some significance in Spike tasting Buffy's blood in this episode - the first time he's drunk from here as far as I can recall? Of course he has already said that the only think better than killing a slayer is....
