Rumoured to see Trip helping an alien being, known as the Cogenitor, to expand his horizons, despite some opposition from his own people. Just watch you don't get pregnant again, Trip!
2.22: Cogenitor
- Thread starter Dave
- Start date
Originally posted by skoon
hee hee...I like how lots of the new episodes are basing around Trip. Perhaps they've realized that lots of us like him best...for his looks...ha ha...
A recent Star Trek Monthly readers poll voted him the hunkiest male character -- that means he beat Chakotay, Paris, Riker, Bashir, Reed, Kirk, in fact everyone (obviously). He really is well liked.
ok saw this ep the other day. I though it was quite well done, none of those happy ending we humans make a good difference oranything. I thought the last 5 minutes with Trip & Captain was an extremeley powerful performance on the actors' part!
spoiler?
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just the expression of Captain Archer, not being able to face Trip & neerley loosing it when Trip leaves. Knowing he has to stay composed & athoritative in Trip's presence even though they've become friends (due to the relaxation of chain of comand in Enterprises unique working conditions?).
Really liked this ep. I thnk it was one of the best this year.
spoiler?
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just the expression of Captain Archer, not being able to face Trip & neerley loosing it when Trip leaves. Knowing he has to stay composed & athoritative in Trip's presence even though they've become friends (due to the relaxation of chain of comand in Enterprises unique working conditions?).
Really liked this ep. I thnk it was one of the best this year.
I'm not sure that I agreed with Captain Archer's decision, it was a difficult one to make and I think that on balance I would have sent her back. She wouldn't have fitted in here, and I thought that she might have slowly made a difference back in the alien society.
But I certainly don't agree with his speech at the end, though it made me think and is worthy of further discussion.
Why was Trip wrong to teach someone to read?
"Archer: Did they ask you to teach them?" -- so what?
Trip was wrong to lie and to be in the Engineer's quarters when he said he was in their mess. If he felt that strongly, he should have been open and honest.
But don't we have our own Human values, don't they count for anything? Rather than dilute them down, I think Archer should have sent them our literature on 'Womens Sufferage' and the 'Abolition of Slavery' and showed them the reason why we feel as we do. We could then agree to disagree, the alien Captain seemed as if he would be open to that.
Archer was just being 'Politically Correct'. he didn't want to rock the boat of his first contact.
Maybe my problem is with her comitting suicide. If she had died because her brain had expanded too much from the knowledge, then I would have blamed Trip. But I can't blame Trip for teaching her alien ideas.
So, Religious Missionaries (of any persuasion) are wrong to convert people? It is wrong to have different Political ideas from your government?
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I had another problem with the proto-SuperNova.
In one Hundred years time (2250?) there is going to be a SuperNova within 25 Light Years of the aliens' planet, and presumably, not much futher from Earth either.
Firstly, why isn't everyone running about shouting "We're all going to die!"
Secondly, why didn't it happen?
But I certainly don't agree with his speech at the end, though it made me think and is worthy of further discussion.
Why was Trip wrong to teach someone to read?
"Archer: Did they ask you to teach them?" -- so what?
Trip was wrong to lie and to be in the Engineer's quarters when he said he was in their mess. If he felt that strongly, he should have been open and honest.
But don't we have our own Human values, don't they count for anything? Rather than dilute them down, I think Archer should have sent them our literature on 'Womens Sufferage' and the 'Abolition of Slavery' and showed them the reason why we feel as we do. We could then agree to disagree, the alien Captain seemed as if he would be open to that.
Archer was just being 'Politically Correct'. he didn't want to rock the boat of his first contact.
Maybe my problem is with her comitting suicide. If she had died because her brain had expanded too much from the knowledge, then I would have blamed Trip. But I can't blame Trip for teaching her alien ideas.
So, Religious Missionaries (of any persuasion) are wrong to convert people? It is wrong to have different Political ideas from your government?
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I had another problem with the proto-SuperNova.
In one Hundred years time (2250?) there is going to be a SuperNova within 25 Light Years of the aliens' planet, and presumably, not much futher from Earth either.
Firstly, why isn't everyone running about shouting "We're all going to die!"
Secondly, why didn't it happen?
I like your idea of Archer sending literature on 'Womens Sufferage' and the 'Abolition of Slavery', but are you agreeing with or disagreeing with Trip forcing reading onto the cogenitor? It is kind of a hard call, but your point of if it's wrong or not of Religious Missionaries trying to convert people, that backfired bigtime for the First Nations of North America, with major resentment & conflict still occuring today. Isn't the Prime directive state that they are not to interfere in the natural devlopment of other species? or is that not in existence yet & because of Trip's or later actions that that will be incorperated? Personally I think I'd have given the cogenator sanction & I probably would have interveined in some way or form (but not by sneeking around like Trip). Whether that would be the right thing to to, who knows. I think the show is trying to teach us to accept people who are different than us & think differently than us?
I'm not sure. It is a hard call, but Archer made his judgement quick enough. Maybe he made it too quickly.
The Prime Directive doesn't come into existence until the United Federation of Planets is formed. That is (probably) after 'Enterprise' finishes as a series. I agree that this is another piece of the jigsaw that leads to the idea of the Prime Directive. I also think Trip was wrong in the way he did this, but not why he did it.
I agree, it is, but I don't think that this was a good example. If you see a man beating and mistreating a child on the opposite side of the street, do you just walk on and ignore it?
she...it wasn't really being misstreated & not beaten, sheltered maybe. Anyhoo, do you at least agree that the last speech was a powerful performace on the actors' part even if we don't quite agree with all that was decided or said?
Yes, it was a powerful performance by Scott Bakula. Even if he was wrong, I believed that he believed he was right.
Connor Trinneer too, I really felt that he was genuinely shocked and regretted what he had done.
In that respect it was a good episode, it's not often they are given any meat in the acting of Enterprise.
Connor Trinneer too, I really felt that he was genuinely shocked and regretted what he had done.
In that respect it was a good episode, it's not often they are given any meat in the acting of Enterprise.
I don't really remember much of the episode but I've watched the last 5 minutes several times. I like the difficulties Archer was facing in that this is his friend BUT he himself is captain & must enforce that fact that her is CAPTAIN, higher rank... from last weeks ep...if you've seen it...we learned how Archer & Trip ARE some what old friends or aquintances...not just meeting when both got onto Enterprise.
I haven't seen the episode that establishes that, but I have got the impression that they were old friends already. He has been the most frequent crewmember at 'Captain's breakfast' for instance, whereas Reed was a little unsure about why he had been asked to go.
Do the events at the end of this get referenced in later episodes -- is their a strain put on the relationship -- or is it reset button and forgotten about next week?
Do the events at the end of this get referenced in later episodes -- is their a strain put on the relationship -- or is it reset button and forgotten about next week?
Can I come in, please?
This was a something out of nothing episode, the sort that requires a couple of chances to watch before it starts to make sense.
It does start to show some of the problems that are redoubtable crew ought to be facing. Just how far can they interfere with the affairs of others?
We saw it briefly in Dear Doctor, where the race in question was slightly behind Earth, in that case Archer managed to walk away before real damage was done. Here we have a race that is ahead and Earth, in the shape of Trip, tried to interfere in what worked. Dave mentioned missionaries earlier and I too thought much the same thing, but for negative reasons.
Missionary zeal is dangerous, unless tempered considerably by understanding and patience. It can lead to major upheavels, destruction of order and revolution.
Which makes me wonder, considering how fortunate they were, Archer did not rip a much larger strip out of his wayward engineer.
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Of course there are always irritants in these shows:-
Enterprise is still not far from the routes that the Earth freighters take. Why/how does Enterprise make so much first contact and why do we never see them again?
I suppose in this instance we have the Super Nova that ought to go off. Perhaps it took them with it?
There is also the question of Trip's dubious taste in who to fall in love with.
This was a something out of nothing episode, the sort that requires a couple of chances to watch before it starts to make sense.
It does start to show some of the problems that are redoubtable crew ought to be facing. Just how far can they interfere with the affairs of others?
We saw it briefly in Dear Doctor, where the race in question was slightly behind Earth, in that case Archer managed to walk away before real damage was done. Here we have a race that is ahead and Earth, in the shape of Trip, tried to interfere in what worked. Dave mentioned missionaries earlier and I too thought much the same thing, but for negative reasons.
Missionary zeal is dangerous, unless tempered considerably by understanding and patience. It can lead to major upheavels, destruction of order and revolution.
Which makes me wonder, considering how fortunate they were, Archer did not rip a much larger strip out of his wayward engineer.
===========================
Of course there are always irritants in these shows:-
Enterprise is still not far from the routes that the Earth freighters take. Why/how does Enterprise make so much first contact and why do we never see them again?
I suppose in this instance we have the Super Nova that ought to go off. Perhaps it took them with it?
There is also the question of Trip's dubious taste in who to fall in love with.
I didn't say that I agreed with missionary zeal, I agree entirely that history has taught us that it has not always been in the best interests of the converted people. But most religions believe in agressive convertion, and it is a fundamental cornerstone of Christianity. Both Jesus and Paul made this clear from the start and it is a major part of doctrine today, one that millions agree with.
We've gone off the point a little though, what I meant was that being Human, should be being able to express who and what we are, and not being afraid to stand up for it. Archer seems too focused on not upsetting the aliens. I think their may be a moral arguement here that is greater than that.
I can see where Trip was coming from, his motive, because like him, I believe every individual has a right to try to achieve there potential. I don't think he forced her to read, she had never been given the opportunity before so didn't know how to grasp it.
I do agree that it wasn't his decision to make, and that he went about it completely the wrong way. So for those reasons, Archer did have to take him down a peg.
I think that from the number of posts about this, we have to give it credit for being a good episode. I haven't had to think about an episode for a long time.
Annette
This is Star - my honey!!
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After reading the posts about this episode without sounding 'daft' I thought Trip may have put his head somewhere where its not wanted (by interfering with the cogenitor) as in teaching him/her things. Why would the other species in question have a problem with this? I thought it quite noble that Trip went out of his way to teach 'Charles'.
Thought Archer gave too much of an ear bashing to Trip about it. I couldn't see a problem but as you say it could have something to do with the forseeable 'Prime Directive'.
Good episode tho. Enjoyed it.
annette
Thought Archer gave too much of an ear bashing to Trip about it. I couldn't see a problem but as you say it could have something to do with the forseeable 'Prime Directive'.
Good episode tho. Enjoyed it.
annette
Liked this one!
i really liked this episode, even though Trip was definately putting his nose where it didn't belong. It wasn't his place to mess with their culture like that. I did feel bad for him at the end though. At least his heart was in the right place.
i really liked this episode, even though Trip was definately putting his nose where it didn't belong. It wasn't his place to mess with their culture like that. I did feel bad for him at the end though. At least his heart was in the right place.