I Hate Ultimate Spider-man. Amazing Spider-man Rules.

[Se-maj#617]

I hate all the ultimate super heros marvel has come out with. What was wrong with the original spider-man, the original dare devil, the original x-men. These are all cheap imitaions of the original concept stan lee came up with in 1967.( i think that's the right date.) spider-man was great as he was. he didn't need to be changed. Original titles like The Amazing Spider-man, The Uncanny X-men, Dare devil The man without fear, The Fantastic Four. Please tell me i'm not the only one insulted by these copies.


"If I go crazy will you still call me spider-man."
Lyrics changed from the song "kryptonite."

May the web be with you.

 

[ZachWZ]

The ultimate line is and cheap attempt to sell comics, Erick Larson of the Dragon who also had a long spidey run trashs them in a recent interview. however i do believe that any thing marvel puts out is horrible. i haven't bought a comic of theirs sand reprints in about 5 months.

ZachWZ

 

[Se-maj#617]

Finally

Glad there is someone out there who gets what I'm saying. I do enjoy the older marvels, but all the new stuff is going down the drain. Maybe marvel ought to think about reprinting the old 1967 isssues instead of making up new ones.

 

[ray gower]

Has to be observed that many of the Marvel Comics are now running both their new incarnations and one of the originals.

And I agree the older stories do make a lot more sense.

 

[gland]

You talk as if the Ultimate titles were replacing the regular ones.

People, the Ultimate series' are essentially just "What if...?" stories that last an entire series run. They are 100% completly seperate from anything else Marvel publishes. They, and the regular books, don't effect eachother in any way.

I could understand getting upset over the Ultimate books if they were supposed to be in continuity with the regular Marvel books, or if Marvel was trying to replace the old mythos...but neither of those is the case here.

 

[Se-maj#617]

Listen

Marvel already puts out 'what if...." comics. But i still think they should have never tried to go back and redo the series. It may seem as if it is just a new comic. But they go back and retell some of the same stories. The Marvel company should have just went back and revamped the old comics and put them out. I also noticed they base some of the Spider-man movie on the ultimate spider-man.

 

[ray gower]

All comics are 'What if...' by nature. Whilst the stories may be similar, the way the story is told that has changed

The world of comics has and is changing, sometimes quite drastically. They have fallen, risen and fallen from popularity over the years I was a regular reader. They have gone from cheap weekly pocket money tat through expensive monthly works of art to argueably expensive monthly tat.

Ultimately this is to be expected, the people who write and draw this strips are different, as are the people who spend their money to read them. All have their own ideas on how things ought to work and those ideas keep changing. Consequently the characters are always being re-invented to suit the needs of the current writers and readers, thus we get all of the different series that bear little resemblence to what others have written. And lets face it Spiderman is nearly as old as me. No body wants to see a geriatric leaping from buildings, it needed to change!

 

[ExPatriot]

I beg to differ.

Ultimately this is to be expected, the people who write and draw this strips are different, as are the people who spend their money to read them. All have their own ideas on how things ought to work and those ideas keep changing. Consequently the characters are always being re-invented to suit the needs of the current writers and readers, thus we get all of the different series that bear little resemblence to what others have written. And lets face it Spiderman is nearly as old as me. No body wants to see a geriatric leaping from buildings, it needed to change! [/B][/QUOTE]

Yes, the poeple who draw, write, and ink the comics have changed and the people who subscribe, and read them have changed also, but that is no exscuse in the least when it come to the cursing, indescent dress, and bloody way in which they portray their characters. It appalls me that this immorality has been allowed to enter into the homes and hearts of so many young people unnoticed. This defiantly does not singualerly include the comic book industry, but an entire range of multi-media organizations! To ignore everything else and only focus on this would be hypocritical on my behalf. That said, I hope to hear some comment to this heartfelt statement. Also, let it be known that I agree with Se-maj entirely and mean to further his oppinions.

Excelsior!

 

[ray gower]

You are correct in many ways.

Guiding civilised society into moral terpitude and decay has not been the sole perogative of the American comic industry. Television and before that radio have all played a part and I dare say there are Sociologists out there that can prove without shadow of a doubt that educating the masses has played a part as well, due to a general reduction in educational standards.

But thinking back to forty years ago, when I first read Action and Marvel, they were pushing the boundaries of what was acceptable then. Some claim it was that realisation that brought an end to the so called Silver Age.

The same was also true of American comics from the 30s.

So to say the current ones are doing anything worse is plain wrong. The old ones only look tame because it is forty odd years later.

 

[ExPatriot]

Originally posted by ray gower
You are correct in many ways.

But thinking back to forty years ago, when I first read Action and Marvel, they were pushing the boundaries of what was acceptable then. Some claim it was that realisation that brought an end to the so called Silver Age.

The same was also true of American comics from the 30s.

So to say the current ones are doing anything worse is plain wrong. The old ones only look tame because it is forty odd years later.

I dare say that if the limits of acceptability are continually pushed, in the comic industry and others, then the results will eventually end in the complete degradation of all that was once taken for granted. Not only in the material things that we have, but the morals that we are based on. Who's to say that we will not end up like so many third world countries. What catostrophic events will occur because of acceptability. Who knows, maybe one day it will be acceptable to sue some one for thier very life because they're differant than you and they weren't willing to accept you, or rather you wouldn't accept them. It really is madness, the whole situation, but there is an answer. If you wish to know, private message me sometime.

 

[SilverCaladan]

In the end, the most we can do to really affect the Ultimate series is to not buy them and warn others away from buying them. I personally have nothing against them; the artwork is amazing and it always is interesting to me to see someone retell a known story different ways... its what keeps on drawing me back to fanfiction.

And the response to the Ultimate series has been startling to me. I have met so many people who have fallen in love with that series and decided to find out all they could about the original. I guess it did work in the sense of drawing people back into comicbooks... though the craze in my city now is manga. I find it everywhere I go... and its almost caught up to the availability of comics.

 

[gland]

Re: I beg to differ.

Originally posted by ExPatriot
Yes, the poeple who draw, write, and ink the comics have changed and the people who subscribe, and read them have changed also, but that is no exscuse in the least when it come to the cursing, indescent dress, and bloody way in which they portray their characters. It appalls me that this immorality has been allowed to enter into the homes and hearts of so many young people unnoticed. This defiantly does not singualerly include the comic book industry, but an entire range of multi-media organizations! To ignore everything else and only focus on this would be hypocritical on my behalf. That said, I hope to hear some comment to this heartfelt statement. Also, let it be known that I agree with Se-maj entirely and mean to further his oppinions.

Excelsior!

The media will only degrade our morality if we were never tought things like respect, how to distinguish between right and wrong, excetera...and never pass on to those who come after us. Good people won't become morally corrupt by seeing something in the media.

 

[Se-maj#617]

I whole heartedly agree with the expartiot. Garbage in garbage out. what gets put into your mind makes you who you are. If you read or watch graphic bloody gorey stuff, then that becomes apart of you. Not that you will become a phycopath, but it will dumb you down to the reality of it.

 

[SilverCaladan]

but that sometimes backfires. I grew up with a particularly physical family (i.e. lots of wrestling among cousins and other such things) and became desensitized to blood that way. It just never bothered me at all. So the comics never bothered me either. *shrugs* you can't always blame everything on external sources... just look at the kids who kill themselves trying to copy wrestling or video games and stuff like that. I don't know about you guys, but I am quite aware that that stuff is not real at all. So I believe that something must have been wrong with those kids in the first place, something with their ability to grasp reallness, that lead to stuff like that.

And is desensitizing really so bad? The real thing is very different from video games; and movies might look disturbingly real but there is a limit to how real it seems. I mean, it is on a flat screen and you are sitting in a darkened theater next to other people.

 

[gland]

Life doesn't immitate art. If bad things in the media caused bad things in real life, everyone who ever watched the news would go out and either shoot people or purposly cause a car accident.

Super hero comicbooks have always been a reflection of the time in which they were made. Back in the day, Peter's school/friends represented what things were like 40 years ago...what cloths they wore, what music was popular, so on. The same is true now. If you think that characters in Ultimate Spider-Man sport any clothing that's unusually explicit, then you haven't set foot near a public highschool for about ten years.




Comics, television, movies...all these do is reflect what people in the real world do already. If you're looking to stop this kind of stuff, cut it off from the sorce by making sure that you teach your kids good values.

 

[ZachWZ]

i have to agree about the clothes statment. although there are major school uniform moements around the USA. Also i attend a University and haven't since of those clothes on the student female body.

I do beleive an artist does have the moral duty to influance their audiance in a positive way. In Superhero comics it's usually a moral lesson, a pep talk, role model example and expanding of the mind to alternate universe's and planes.

ZachWZ

 

[ray gower]

From my observations of the young ladies at Bangor, I would say the illustrators tend to 'egg the pudding' for their female characters, perhaps to give the drawings an advanced civilisation feel, though I suspect not with any such lofty ideals in mind. Especially as the chaps tend to be more sobrely dressed.

How and why the females aren't all in hospital with hypothermia is beyond me. Here, we tend to be fashionable only in a thermal undies and macintosh sort of way. Then all sorts

 

[gland]

Different places, different trends.

Bottom line, young people are going to do the things they do and dress the way they dress anyway, regardless of what fictional characters on a page have on. They do things for any number of personal or social reasons...rebelling against parents...wanting to apear cool to piers...so on.

It's just plane silly to think that changing the style of clothing worn by comic characters will effect how teenagers dress in real life.

 

[Se-maj#617]

I must say that although i can watch a movie in which Orcs get their heads chopped off and I would not be affected, Watching something tlike the patriot would really be gross. But lets say i saw that and then watched other things like it. After a year of that I went went into a battle. Would, having already seen that much blood and gore (although not having been in the situation myself) desensitze myself to the point that I no would longer realized I was taking a life. The carecter could not come back in another movie. His blood would be on my head. Say you saw a movie in which the hero killed and killed, yet was still a hero. He would be a theif (for taking soemone elses life), and a murder. Yet still a hero. I'm not saying that a soldier is not a hero, for he has to do what he must, but that still dosen't make it right. The fact is, as I have said before, garbage in garbage out. Waht gets put into your mind over and over stays there. Wether you realize it or not.

 

[ray gower]

It tends not to work like that, Se-maj. Film and real life are very different. People tend not to scream in films when they are blown up and shot.

However to drag this a little more to the point. I occurs to me, that if they simply called all these comics Spiderman, apart from being a tad dull, we would never know which ones to avoid?