Are the Matrix's programs telling the truth? Reloaded SPOILERS!

[pkgrl]

Seems this question was overlooked earlier and it's pretty relevent to Reloaded discussions.

Should we assume that programs like the Architect, the Oracle, the Merovingian and others are always telling the "truth"?

If so, then why did the agents try so hard to kill (delete) the KeyMaker? One agent even said, "Then you were meant for one more thing: deletion." I thought that the One had to return to the source. If the KeyMaker's deleted, then how would Neo get to this "level where no elevator can go and no stair can reach"? If Neo does need the KeyMaker to accomplish this goal, then the agent was lying and it didn't really intend to delete the KeyMaker... or it was lied to by whatever controlling program sends out the agents on their missions.

Also, if the programs are telling the truth, then Neo has to be human. Almost every program worth anything has told him (or us) so. The Agents at the beginning (sharing lines) say, "Do we proceed?" "Yes. After all, he is still..." "Only human." The Merovingian says, "See? He's just a man," when Neo shows blood. And the Architect tells him that he is "irretrievably human." So he has to be human right? That is, unless the programs are capable of lying.

Anyone else have any ideas?

 

[Tabitha]

Well, I've been mulling over my little Matrix-within-a-matrix idea, and one stumbling block was why Smith would fight so hard to win against Neo, why were the Agents so tough, why would the Sentinels be so dangerous? And I just came to the conclusion that if you want a convincing scenario, you make sure the programs inside it believe in its purpose and reality. So, whatever sent those agents after the Keymaker told them it must be deleted.

On the other hand, I think some of the programs might know the truth - and these are the ones that appear to be acting irrationally. Why would Smith warn Neo about the other agents at the beginning of the film? What on earth is going on with the Merovingian and Persephone? They certainly don't seem to care about the machines vs humans struggle.

And hey, can programs lie? Well, think about the Merovingian's responses to Persephone's accusations re his infidelity. I don't think he lies, exactly, but he certainly makes an attempt to prevent her from knowing the truth.

And the oracle? First film, she tells Neo that he will only be able to save Morpheus if he dies himself. I guess that isn't a lie, because technically he does die.

Here's another interesting one: When the Architect tells Neo about the previous five Ones/Matrices, his response is: "Either nobody told me, or nobody knew."

So, er, Neo doesn't seem to think the Architect is lying. He confirms this when he tells Morph and Trin that everyone in Zion and the Matrix is going to die pretty soon "Someone told me, I believe him".

Can Neo see the code for truth or lie?




By the way - I caught all those references to Neo being referred to as "just a man" etc, but now you put them all together it is starting to make me think that he might have those powers in the real world, or alternatively he might turn out to be a program.

 

[pkgrl]

Originally posted by Tabitha
Can Neo see the code for truth or lie?

That's a good question. I remember wondering about more of Neo's abilities within the Matrix, too, because someone mentioned... something... and I remember thinking that I should remind them that Neo sees the Matrix in code, not in "flesh."

I wish they'd let us see what Neo sees once or twice more in Reloaded. I was curious to see if the Architect appears all white and glowing like Seraph. Or if they only showed us Seraph glowing like that because they want him to look like an angel (like his name implies).

And I'm still not sure if the programs are capable of lying or not. :crazy:

 

[cersei]

Machines dont lie hehe

sorry to carry on my personal crusade but I believe the Machines do not, cannot and is incapable of lying....it is simply not in their programming to do so

it all comes back to Free Will and ability to make a choice (including the one to lie) which only Humans are able to.

Even Smith whom is "freed of the system" still maintains his purpose of "destroying Neo"...its Purpose that defines us