Reloaded symbolism

[pkgrl]

After some extra (geeky) reading suggested by another member of this bboard, I decided to go ahead with a post that's been itching my brain for a while. I was just wondering what kind of symbolism seemed most important in Reloaded? I like the insights you guys come up with, but to get the ball rolling with this one, I'll begin.

In religious iconography, showing someone under an arch gives them a divinity or holiness. Here are the images I remembered from Reloaded of people under arches: Trinity, Morpheus & Neo, upon entering the captain's meeting near the beginning, walk under an arch; Neo & Trinity make love beneath an arch; Neo, opening doorway to KeyMaker's room, introduces himself beneath an arch. Just here you have one image of Morpheus as holy, two of Trinity as holy, and three of Neo as holy. Is the count significant?

There's tons more visual symbolism, but I don't want to hog the spotlight. What were the most significant images you noted?

 

[stripes]

Good thread idea

Of course theres a lot of Christ symbolisms, but having seen the movie only once only one sticks out for me: The mob that gathers around Neo in Zion.

The Meriovian, obvious satan connection. In Revolutions his club is even called...club hell, dead givaway there.

His sexual temptation of the woman, the cake represents Eve's eating of the apple, maybe. The woman has no other significance of course, but Im making the connection.

The five cycles, obvious Buddhist connection.

Neo saving Trinity can be seen as a miracle.

Surprisingly, thats all I can think of. This is heavy.

 

[pkgrl]

"Heavy," huh? Good.

Yeah the Christ imagry and parallels are prevelent and began back in the original film.

Two other symbols that stood out in Reloaded for me were the crows that the Oracle was feeding (and which were harbingers of the arrival of Smith) and the spoon given to Neo by the kid. The crows (or ravens... whichever) usually represent death. So it stands to reason that when Smith tried to copy him, to Neo it felt like "dying." Not sure if the spoon is supposed to be a reminder to Neo to continue to differentiate between "reality" and the Matrix, or if it's a hint that what we're being told is "real" really isn't. Is there still no spoon?

 

[cersei]

ooh symbolisms...so many ehhe.

One obvious one that sticks in my mind is when Neo enters Matrix to visit Oracle and all the religious trinkets are shown ranging from Christ, Buddha to even Football (yes definately a religion to some hehe) and a Barbie doll (or some similiar doll anyway)

Oracle offers red candy to Neo and states she likes candy. This is reminiscent of Morpheus offering Neo the red pill or blue pill. Symbolism? Candy = Choice?

The French restaurant name is "Le vrai" ie French for The Truth.

Number of people state Neo is Human.....Smith, Oracle, Merovingian, Architect.....a clue or perhaps purposely to lead us astray?

23 individuals to be chosen to "reseed" Zion....number of Human Chromosome pairs? Someone pointed out ina website that numbers 23 are highlighted in white compared to numerous flowing charcters in Matrix code at beginning...Can't confirm if there are actually 23 people on the Council as claimed by others (perhaps pkgrl can enlighten us?)

Number of seconds Neo has to get into Architect room is 314s. Its been pointed out that 3.14 is pi which represents a circle ie the cirular nature of the Ones/Reloads but also pointed out by my mathematician friend that it is considered an "irrational" number in matchs

101 : Neo's apartment, Room in Heart of the City where he dies, Merovingian's floor level, Highway used for chase (some clever people say the password Trinity uses is z10n0101 but I cannnot confirm this)

hehe sorry mind overload at moment and will post more as I think of them

 

[pkgrl]

Can't confirm if there are actually 23 people on the Council as claimed by others (perhaps pkgrl can enlighten us?)

Yes, I can. I counted. There are 12 council members in Zion. So I'd go with the human chromosome pairs as the most likely symbolism of the number 23.

I was also wondering, since Smith reminds Neo straight off that "appearances can be deceiving." Made me start wondering about more than just the MIM theory.

And the room number in the Heart o' the City hotel where Neo is "killed" is 303... or so that's what room Tank sent him too. (Just watched it again yesterday... and today... I'm sick, I know so it's pretty fresh in my mind.) :blush:

But the other appearances of the number 101 are correct. I even noticed Neo's apartment number for the first time yesterday, so it's the one that really sticks out for me. And if you've ever wondered what it's like driving down the Hollywood freeway (Highway 101) just watch that car chase again and imagine some community-friendly, pastel murals along those walls, and you'll have it. I was just on that freeway a couple weeks ago and was stunned at how accurate those walls and on and off ramps were. :alienooh:

 

[cersei]

ya got me there 303 is room where Trinity starts in as well as Neo finishes in (I should know this since this has always been my explanation of how Smith knows Neo is heading to same room and awaits him there to shoot him)

thanks for the council members headcount

 

[pkgrl]

Here's a new one

We've already discussed the reasons why the Merovingian is like Hades, god of the underworld (as in afterlife and mob, eh?), but I just have to mention this other one. When the Merovingian offered food and drink to Neo, Neo refused it, in spite of the Merovingian's coersive little, "...who has time? But if we do not make time, how will we ever have time?" It's not like Neo hasn't eaten in the Matrix before... remember the Oracle's cookie and candy? But if he were to eat there, in the Merovingian's club, he might end up being stuck there.

Speaking of the Oracle, I think now that she must be the "mother" of the Matrix that the Architect mentioned. Symbolically, the mother attributes are really strong in her program. When we first met her, she had an apartment full of kids (the "other potentials") and she was baking cookies. The fact that she's always feeding Neo (and giving him instructions, too) is another MOM thing and I think strongly indicates that she is the Mother the Architect described.

 

[stripes]

Originally posted by pkgrl
"Heavy," huh? Good.

Yeah, Back to the Future terminology.

Anyway, Im not too sure if it was here or another board, but Neo is the one, and mathematically, the number one goes into everything.

23 human Chromosomes, I never thought of that before. that was good.

 

[cersei]

hmm nice thought about Oracle feeding Neo...must say that scores some points for her being Mother....

still have my money on Persephone for now though hehe

regarding the 23 people, 7 male & 16 female (someone noted with Neo, it will be 2 to 1 ratio exactly but I don't think Neo is meant to be part of it as his code is reintegrated with the Matrix)...does anyone else this ratio is biologically not the most ideal to start a population? not to be encouraging polygamy but surely 1 male can erm "service" more than 2 females?? If I had to choose 23 only, I would expect more females and less males. Granted accidents which could kill any males must be taken into accounted for......is it implied the men are more important and necessary to survival? hehe sorry just some girly thoughts

 

[Tabitha]

Originally posted by cersei


regarding the 23 people, 7 male & 16 female (someone noted with Neo, it will be 2 to 1 ratio exactly but I don't think Neo is meant to be part of it as his code is reintegrated with the Matrix)...does anyone else this ratio is biologically not the most ideal to start a population? not to be encouraging polygamy but surely 1 male can erm "service" more than 2 females?? If I had to choose 23 only, I would expect more females and less males. Granted accidents which could kill any males must be taken into accounted for......is it implied the men are more important and necessary to survival? hehe sorry just some girly thoughts

Errrr, this is probably draggin the thread off topic somewhat, but surely such a ratio, or a greater one, as you suggest, will just lead to inbreeding? Not a good idea. Or as the Preacher comic would put it "You can't XXXXX your sister and expect much good to come of it".

 

[cersei]

hehe good point tab. and yes I have read entire series of the Preacher

 

[pkgrl]

nice thought about Oracle feeding Neo...must say that scores some points for her being Mother....

Thanks for that small concession.

And for the questions the numbers of people needed for a new Zion. I did a little math (which I hate, by the way) and with fewer than 7 males there'd be more likelyhood of inbreeding occurring. Besides, with 16 females trying to increase the population, we're talking about a lot of pregnant women and a lot of estrogen, meaning a lot of people who wouldn't be able to do much to defend themselves for months at a stretch, even though they'd be demanding it. If every woman had one child by each man, we'd have 112 kids for the second generation. If you figure that each girl from that generation had just eight children (by men in the former or current generation) each, you'd be repopulating Zion in no time... with NO inbreeding.

Symbolically, I think the number 23 does refer to the number of human chromosomes. It gives us a big enough number of people to realistically repopulate a city without the (sometimes disturbing) notion of inbreeding or incest, and it has that added bonus of being significant to humans as a species on a genetic level.

 

[cersei]

thanks for maths

hehe thanks for doing the Maths. looks good to me. i assumed that no matter what numbers, in-breeding was goign to occur but glad u showed it possible with this ratio