I have a theory Why the whrmhole sometimes stays open longer or shorter.

[VertexOfLife668]

I have a theory Why the wormhole sometimes stays open longer or shorter.

I was watching several esipodes from seasons 3,5, and 7 when I developed a theory why the wormhole stays open longer.

(I could be wrong please PROVE it if I am, thanks)

We know that the stargate knows if there is something moving through it and remains open as shown in Season 7's esipode one (two also...?) Because there were radio waves moving through the stargate and it reamined open. I belive that the acients being as technoliically advanced as they were implated sensors into the stargate to sense if there were any form of life moving towards it and to remain open, and/or to close down. Maby a type of heat-sensors or a form of matter dectors that tell a stargate to remain open until its powersource is cut off (38.35.09{Min.Sec.Mil Secs.})
Perhaps because the iris is located .004 millimeters away form the gate this causes some coinfusion or maby not...

Please Post!
:alienooh: :alienooh: :alienooh:

 

[VertexOfLife668]

I Have Taken this form a post by Whitestar
and a reply to the post by PTeppic
http://www.ascifi.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16072

Well, you may not have read all the entries in this "Technical" forum, since this point has been discussed at great length...

One of the major conclusions is that the gates/addresses system changes between the movie and the SG-1 series - but we are expected to ignore this. This is mostly cost-based I would imagine - the film only needed two gates. The series only has two, one in the SGC set, and one mobile version for location. This one has to be used for all other planets, but is basically the same with the same glyphs.

The resulting discussions, if I remember correctly, came up with the following relevant points:

a) points in space are identified by their unique combination of glyphs from the surrounding constellations [this allows the following conclusions]
b) by moving a gate, you would dial in to it with a different set of glyphs - but this would lead to conflict with any other gate at that "address" ["Solitudes" etc.]
c) this movement would also occur as the universe expands - hence the new addresses required to coimpensate for stellar drift ["Children of the Gods"]
d) you can only dial out at a point in space where you can also dial in if necessary ["Serpent's Grasp"]
e) if dialling out from a moved gate, you use the local gate's Point of Origin glyph ["Serpents Lair"]
f) gates have in-built sensors to detect where they are and respond to being moved [implied from (b), (c), (d), (e)]
g) glyphs are probably only the ones shown on the Earth gate, except for the Point of Origin glyphs [this is SG-1 only, changed since film] [otherwise many gates would be unavailable from each other]
h) a gate's address is the same no matter which other gate it is being dialled from [seen each time SG-1 dial home]
i) Point of Origin glyphs on a gate may be a generic "position" on the DHD, since they never seem have to work it out, and they otherwise wouldn't be able to move DHDs/gates so easily to/from SGC. f) gates have in-built sensors to detect where they are and respond to being moved [implied from (b), (c), (d), (e)]

So perhaps they can sense Lifeforms approaching..?

 

[PTeppic]

a) You are badly mis-quoting without understanding the context of the original!! :evil: The text you have emboldened is actually talking about positional sensors, working out where the gate is in the universe, not whether things are near it; hence the references to being moved. It therefore has nothing to do with this conversation.

b) Watching episodes such as "Shades of Grey" Jack deliberately holds his hand in the destination wormhole to prevent the gate closing. References to "Serpents Song" etc., imply the gate will stay open as long as "something" is travelling through the gate, be it people or energy. From "Matter of Time" we've seen that this is energy travelling in either direction.

c) My personal opinion is that YES, there is a sensor, since the wormhole itself has to know when to stop "loading" the incoming object into the transmisson buffer (see "48 hours"). However, there is also a LOT of "dramatic licence"... the producers always have the gate conveniently stay open long enough when they want it, and close it when they want it. Look through most examples of gate travel, it will happily gurgle away whilst they stand at the DHD discussing the fate of the universe for a minute or so, or approaching the wormhole, but the moment they are through it closes....

 

[Rowan]

Interesting...

Vertex, that's an interesting theory. And since no one is exactly sure all the ins and outs of wormhole theory, it's as good a discussion point as any put forth so far. Even if there might be a bit of a misunderstanding from the pieces you quoted, your conjecture is still interesting in the end.

Like pretty much all the discussions I've been in and read in regards to quantum math and physics, everyone will find their own 'comfort theory'. And that's what's fun about a forum like this and science fiction/fact: we can discuss it and ponder.

Thanks for your contribution to the thread here in Technical.

Rowan

 

[VertexOfLife668]

Err Sorry

Sorry About that!

Yeesh no need to yell...

-Lili-

 

[VertexOfLife668]

Perhaps...

But maby the sensors, as i stated before had heat sensors so then it would sense the matter and nother question..i thought yuo couldent send matter through an outgoing wormhole form the other end..or did jack leave his arm there..i have yet to see this esipodes..damn scifi randomness..

-Lili-

 

[PTeppic]

[Didn't mean to shout...]

You can't send stuff backwards through the wormhole (see "A Hundred Days" [and "Wormhole X-treme!"?]), but it seems that ("Shades of Grey") there is still a sensor/buffer which can be used to keep the gate open.

Thinking about it, in eps such as "Message in a Bottle" they open the gate (to return the orb) and somehow keep it open, whilst "things" happen in the gateroom, and it just sits there gurgling with no-one even on the ramp, let alone approaching the gate. Finally, the technician asks, a couple of minutes later, whether they should shut down the gate, and do so...

I've wondered (since the iris is "built in" to the rim of the gate, as is the SGC's "traveller detection" radar/sensor) whether they've installed a small device inside the edge of the wormhole to manually keep the gate open (and in "Shades of Grey" Jack was just making a point, without having to get the Control Room to do anything).

 

[VertexOfLife668]

Originally posted by PTeppic
[Didn't mean to shout...]

You can't send stuff backwards through the wormhole (see "A Hundred Days" [and "Wormhole X-treme!"?]), but it seems that ("Shades of Grey") there is still a sensor/buffer which can be used to keep the gate open.

Thinking about it, in eps such as "Message in a Bottle" they open the gate (to return the orb) and somehow keep it open, whilst "things" happen in the gateroom, and it just sits there gurgling with no-one even on the ramp, let alone approaching the gate. Finally, the technician asks, a couple of minutes later, whether they should shut down the gate, and do so...

I've wondered (since the iris is "built in" to the rim of the gate, as is the SGC's "traveller detection" radar/sensor) whether they've installed a small device inside the edge of the wormhole to manually keep the gate open (and in "Shades of Grey" Jack was just making a point, without having to get the Control Room to do anything).

But Did He keep his arm there and not pll it through with him because thats still sending matter the rght way, buit what does the matter do when the arm is just there..remain frozen..?

Perhaps sience the SCG dosent use a DHD like most other stargates they (The SGC) have more 'control' over the gate until the 38 min time lkimit runs out...

Or then again the sensors could be in the DHD i rember one esipode when the gate wouldent work because the DHD had been hit by a staff weapon...If this is the case then why dont the Go'uld damage more DHDs..? They do have the ring transport...

Either way..Becuse the sgc uses electrity and because the alien in sams house used electrity perhaps electrity because it is less unstable gives you more control over the gate.

-Lili-

 

[PTeppic]

No - when you get to watch the episode you'll find he specifically refers to keeping the gate open by putting his arm in the wormhole.

Gate control - well, there're 400 feedback signals, which, lets face it, seems totally irrelevant since the DHD only has glyphs and the "big red button"... there must be a lot of control which the DHD does, but is unseen by the "user", which the SGC can override using their dialling computer (e.g. "Red Sky"). But, they don't seem related to whether the DHD can sense the users near the gate... since all the gates without DHDs seem to work the same way. (as far as I can remember).

Electricity - I don't think the power sourcre makes a difference. In "Torment of Tantalus" Sam explains that the gate is basically a giant superconductor that uses energy from pretty much any source... after all they have applied static or DC power from many sources to otherwise "real" gates...

The gate that Orlin makes in Sam's basement in "Ascension" may be slightly odd from normal perspectives since it was a "one-off" gate, with a fixed address. It probably doesn't therefore have the majority of twiddly little interfaces, since, no least, it doesn't have a DHD...

 

[VertexOfLife668]

And..?

So do you belive that the DHD or perhaps the gate or, then again perhaps its just nothing, has sensors?

 

[PTeppic]

As I put in item (c) of my very first reply: "My personal opinion is that YES, there is a sensor".

 

[Jaffa-Jim]

Wow- I was just about to start a new topic on this when I spotted this one- good debate guys!

Here's one for you- if the 'Gate can be kept open for a certain amount of time and when that time is reached, someone steps through without enough time to materialize at their destination, do they materialize in space somewhere?

 

[VertexOfLife668]

No they get caught like teal'c did i forget what esipode but i suppose they die or get caught inbetween.

 

[PTeppic]

Actually, I'd disagree...

The gate network has been seen to have loads of safety protocols. Although its never made clear I would imagine that the source gate will close down first, and the destination gate a few moments later, after sufficient time that anything travelling (be it matter or energy) would have time to travel. The issue of precise timing between the two ends of the gate is never made clear, since editing of the footage removes synchronisation!

The Teal'c incident in "48 Hours" was due to the source gate being destroyed mid transfer...

 

[Jaffa-Jim]

Wow P'teppic- you know your stuff- this technical 'gate stuff is really interesting.

 

[VertexOfLife668]

Intresting theory Pteppic let me check some of my disk sets and open some stills for 48 hrs

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by Jaffa-Jim
Wow P'teppic- you know your stuff- this technical 'gate stuff is really interesting.

Thank you... if you've ever been to the fabulous Ausgate's Stargate-Command I'm one of the Quiz setting/correcting team...

 

[PTeppic]

Originally posted by VertexOfLife668
Intresting theory Pteppic let me check some of my disk sets and open some stills for 48 hrs

Thank you - its just applying engineering safety principles.

Ignoring the issue of synchronisation (for which I could spout at length ) - you'd want to ensure that no matter when the wormhole closed down (both controlled and is as many uncontrolled ways) the traveller would not get "lost". For an end-to-end transport system like the Stargate, this would mean either not letting people into the source gate for the last few seconds (which doesn't seem to happen) or close down the source wormhole first.

 

[VertexOfLife668]

Ok i just have it figured out now this is a difficutw ayy to explain it mind you..

Imagine a regular kichen sink is the stargate system and the water is the wormhole the drain is the reciving staratew and the spout is the sending oneok then when you turn the water on it "sends" the wormhole (Water) to the reciving startgate now if you turned off the spout (sending wormhole) what ever water that is still in transition keeps going towards the drain. go ahead try it out you should see what im talking about

So in conclusion perhaps it is easier to imagine the stargate system as one big sink with amny drains except at your point of orgin there is the spout and each stargate has its individual spout that changes between a spout and a drain depending on wich way the wormhole is going this raises another question

If earth to abydos was a straight line across the galaxy heading weast to east and the asgard homeworld and the nox homeworld was a straight line going up and down what would happen if the nox/ asgard wormhole was truned on while the earth/abydos one had matter in transit would one being go one way wou,lld everything go diffrent ways ro wouuld the matter just "evaporate"????

 

[PTeppic]

Vertex,

Good explanation!!! Simple but effective, and fits both the physics that's been explained in the show (Siler in "Solitudes" saying (something like) "the wormhole acts as a charged matter stream through an artificial wormhole") and the basic principles of safety (as above: close off the source first). [In fact, if I may, I'll use it in my website?]

As to your question - we also know from "Red Sky", "1969" and some of the other episodes that there are many built in safety features that prevent wormholes connecting when it would be "dangerous" to do so. The only drawback being that there is no feedback message like in the SGC Control Room - the gate either dials or it doesn't. In that scenario I would imagine that the second of the pair of gates simply wouldn't connect (as per "Red Sky") since there was a danger en route.


However, I think that the size of the galaxy and the presumably fairly small size of wormholes, means that your trying to join London to Sydney with a (very long) human hair, and intercept it with a human hair going from Rio de Janeiro to Hong Kong. Or probably something even thinner!!