Ascension

[gr8scott]

I'm sorry if this has already been discussed...

I’m confused. How does one ascend? We know from past eps that Daniel and others had ascended due to sacrificial acts or even enlightened perspectives (taught by Oma Desala); we also see in Atlantis, an entire colony of ancients that had to overcome fear to ascend (Epiphany). So is this what it takes to ascend? Some don't have to do anything (Full Circle), but rather are simply ascended by the Ancients.

What about the Ori? How did they ascend? They obviously have very different perspectives than the Ancients? Also, our very own Mr. Anubis... how did he ascend? Did he fake em out? Is there an oversight committee? Who decides or is it automatic? What are the rules.

One gets the impression there’s some kind of “path†to ascension, but the ones who have ascended took very different paths which implies no rules. If there are no rules, then the only conclusion I can come to is that the ascended ones decide who gets to join them.

If this is the case, then I have no respect for the Ancients at all. They left so many of their own behind. What about all those in hibernation in the Ancient ship (Aurora) that was destroyed? They gave up everything. They should have been ascended. The Ancients are a bunch of double standard snobs.

So therein lies my confusion. What do you think?

 

[philoSCIFI]

Although there were different paths for different ascended beings, I still think there are rules. It seems a few of them thought aren't as enforced as others.

Oma broked the rules. So, she's not really one to generalize off of when speaking of ascended beings and particularly the Ancients. Anubis ascended because of Oma, so that takes him out as an exception as well.

Regarding the episode "Full Circle," If I'm not mistaken that was due to the acended? I'm not quite sure. I'll have to watch that episode again. I found that odd as well. But if it was because of the other acended beings then I have a hazy theory on that which I'll touch on momentarily...

As for the Ori? Beats me... I'm still not quite caught up with the latest episodes yet.

Now for a possible theory...

I don't think we can assume Ancients and Ascended beings as the same thing. When the Ancients were first introduced, I thought of them as highly intellectual, supernatural, what-have-yous... However, as the series and storylines changed and/or progressed I found the Ancients... well... not "less interesting" persay, but more like not as interesting as we first thought.

The only way I seem to come to terms with all of it is by thinking about the evolution - evolution in the sense of changes throughout time.

Humans came after the Ancients (storyline, plot, and more info from "Frozen").
Then things branched off from there...
We've got the Ancients experimenting with ascension (an SGA episode I can't seem to remember at the moment as well as another episode whose episode title seems to escape me).

(((I seem to have lost my articulation flow... I'll be back after a break... lol...))) I'm curious as to how other people view it. What's everyone elses take on it?

 

[gr8scott]

Originally posted by philoSCIFI

We've got the Ancients experimenting with ascension (an SGA episode I can't seem to remember at the moment as well as another episode whose episode title seems to escape me).

Good point. I think it's safe to assume that there are ONLY TWO WAYS to ascend:

1) To be ascended by an ascended being, or

2) To ascend through the advance and use of technology (as we find in the Atlantis ep. Hide and Seek - studying beings of pure energy). Which would answer the question of how the first Ancient ascended.

I don't think the series has supported the idea that one could naturally ascend. So basically, all those poor saps in Epiphany where waiting for their ascended bretheren to decide that they where worthy to join the club.

 

[philoSCIFI]

You could tweak the theory and include that in the beginning 'ascending naturally' was the only way to ascend and then evolved.

1) Ascending naturally
2) Help from ascended beings
3) Ascend through advanced technology

The Ancients and the others that followed found it took too long and looked for other ways. Patient folks, those Ancients were...

Originally posted by gr8scott
I don't think the series has supported the idea that one could naturally ascend. So basically, all those poor saps in Epiphany where waiting for their ascended bretheren to decide that they where worthy to join the club.

They've mentioned it (ascending naturally), but I agree that they haven't really backed the idea up with any examples.

 

[gr8scott]

Originally posted by philoSCIFI
You could tweak the theory and include that in the beginning 'ascending naturally' was the only way to ascend and then evolved.

That's what I've believed until now. It brings up so many questions, some of which appear to be contraditions.

For example, How does one ascend naturally? What's the criteria? If it's a "path" to ascention, how does that fit in with evolution. Can a non evolved being ascend naturally by following the path? Is the path simply the rules of other ascended beings?

Did the colony in Epiphany evolve or were they helped along? I just don't understand how ascending naturally could happen unless you were at some hightened form of existence and you just turned into energy - despite your values or perceptions of life. Therefore, the whole "path to ascention" idea is simply a bunch of hoops one jumps through to get the help of ascended beings.

Assuming that beings can naturally ascend, it makes me wonder how many other races have ascended. Maybe SG-1 will someday be involved in an all out ascended war. Wouldn't that be cool?

 

[philoSCIFI]

How does one ascend naturally? What's the criteria? If it's a "path" to ascention, how does that fit in with evolution. Can a non evolved being ascend naturally by following the path? Is the path simply the rules of other ascended beings?

I think 'path' will justify itself for sake of discussion, at least for right now and where the discussion is at, at the moment.

And, Why can't the 'path' exist simultaneously with evolution? If so, in this case a non-evolved being can ascend naturally by the 'path'. And the 'path' would have to pre-exist the ascended beings. I see you've stumbled on a paradox. Which came first, the ascended being (i.e. chicken) or the natural path the first ascended beings took (i.e. egg)? I personally don't know about the chicken and the egg paradox, but for some reason the path coming before the ascended being seems to work for me personally.

Did the colony in Epiphany evolve or were they helped along?

Great question. I have no idea. (((I'll have to watch Epiphany for a refresher.)))

I just don't understand how ascending naturally could happen unless you were at some hightened form of existence and you just turned into energy - despite your values or perceptions of life. Therefore, the whole "path to ascention" idea is simply a bunch of hoops one jumps through to get the help of ascended beings.

I follow your logic up until "therefore..."

"The whole 'path to ascension' is simply a bunch of hoops one jumps through" to ascend, not to ascend by the help of the ascended beings. It is the path itself and not the ascended ones who watch the path. (((That would just suck.))) It's

This is seperate from athee path - 'the original path'. THEE PATH is the original path to ascension that the very first ascended being took. In the case you seem to try to speak of is when the ascended being help others ascend, which I think is seperate from the original. And the ascended aren't supposed to help other ascend... they deviate from thee path.

Yeah... something about seperate path that are in co-existance. Dang... I lost my flow of thought again. Hmm...

Did that make sense?