Crackpot Ashra Dayne theory - AFFC spoilers

red_temple

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As requested by Trey Greyjoy:

First, I'd like to stress my "crackpot" disclaimer again, as I have no solid factual evidence to back this up, other than "it fits" and there is no real evidence to the contrary. Other than the whole "Ashra Dayne is dead" thing. If you are part of the camp that believes she still lives, and may be wondering what happened to her, here is a theory for you, then.

I believe that Ashra Dayne is Quaithe, the lacquer-masked soothsayer that pops up in Dany's camp from time to time. It fits that if Ashra is not dead, she must be in hiding somewhere. Perhaps her purpose is now to help return the Targs to power, and she is helping as best she can. Obviously, she cannot show herself in public, hence the guise of Quaithe. The reason that I thought of this is I've always been suspicious of Quaithe, being masked, speaking in riddles, etc. She also seems to add value to Dany's cause. So, my questions about her are:

1. Why the mask? The obvious answer is that whatever group/race (can't remember specifics here) she belongs to always wear the masks. I think GRRM offers this up as an alibi for the mask, so we don't suspect her to actually be some other than she really is.

2. Why speak in riddles? If the soothsayer knows what should be done, why not just tell Dany straight up? Speaking in riddles is a common theme in most fantasy, but not common to GRRM if there isn't a clear cut reason for it. So what's the reason for the riddles? If Quaithe wants to help Dany, and she is Ashra as I believe, then she has to be careful not to reveal too much, or risk blowing her cover. If Dany veers off course, Quaithe can just "re-appear" at the appropriate time to nudge Dany in the right direction with another riddle.

3. Of course, this is really just an argument that Quaithe is not really Quaithe. But if Quaithe is not Quaithe, then who can she be? The list of candidates is small when you think about it, and Ashra is the obvious choice for me.

What do you think?

<prepares to dodge flames>
 
Thats a lot of food for thought!

I always had a problem with Ashara throwing herself off the cliff because of a broken heart over Eddard, but I was working a secret "R+A=J" angle I never talked about and didnt hold a lot of water ;)

Excellent theory! Back to the books!

***Edit***

After some google-acrobatics (googabatics?) it appears that there is nothing directly that can contradict the theory, at least nothing obvious.
There would have to be a lot we do not know about the Daynes & Dorne to explain how Ashara had the motivation & wherewithall to become a shadowbinder of the Asshai. Her motivations to help Dany are certainly clear enough.
 
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Interesting. Now I want to add to the crackpot stew. Not that I have any real points... just conjecture and questions.

Does anyone recall another Westerosi commiting suicide? I cannot, it must be a rare occurance in the Seven Kingdoms.

Iirc, Ashara threw herself from a tower. Starfall is located on the sea. Did she fall into the water? Was the body ever recovered? If the body was not recovered then rt's theory is very interesting.

As for the mask... I have no idea.

I need to go back and reread what Quaithe actually tells Dany. I remember her just wanting Dany to be careful, but maybe there is more.

Either she meant to kill herself but did not and was washed out to sea where she was picked up by a passing vessel and after recovering made her way to Asshai or Qarth where she decided to become this sorceress or she faked her death and left Dorne for the East where she became a sorceress.

Ashara is survived by her younger sister Allyria, who was engaged to Beric Dondarrion. http://www.towerofthehand.com says Allyria is the aunt of Edric Dayne, squire to Beric and Lord of Starfall. Aunt may actually mean "sister to Edric's mother or father" or it may be a loose term for an older relative. If interpreted in strict sense, then it seems that Edric must be the son of either Arthur Dayne or Ashara Dayne.

Arthur was in the Kingsguard so he never married. Ashara was unwed and in love with Eddard Stark. So who are Edric's parents? I guess there may be an unnamed sibling of Allyria, Ashara, and Arthur still out there. But why the name Edric? He'd have been born around the time Ned and Ashara were in love. Edric starts out the same as Eddard... and Edric goes by Ned... just like Eddard did.
 
Her body was never recovered! It is known....

Edrics father was Lord of Starfall. I seem to recall that there was an unnamed sibling, it may have been the former Lord of Starfall. I need to carry the books around with me all the time...:) I need that index!
 
Real quick...

As I have said before....while I love crazy theories, just because theres not evidence to the contrary doesnt make it true. Heck I floated one about Tywin having a hand in Joffs death that got shot down so quick it looked like drunk me at a lesbian bar....

So my question for you is. Why would Ashara Dayne fake her own death and run off to the other side of the continent...her "death" happened before anyone knew there were two survivors of the royal family, so she's not a closet Targ supporter....I cant see it advancing her family any.....revenge on Ned seems out of character for a Dayne.....give me something here, throw me a bone people...
 
:D Lol!

Aegon, would be interested in buying Hot Pie = Mance Rayders ******* son theory?? Its hardly been used and Ill sell it to you cheap! :p

I think there would have to be more to the text than what is there now about the Daynes & Dorne before we could say for sure.
 
Aegon the Unworthy said:
Real quick...

As I have said before....while I love crazy theories, just because theres not evidence to the contrary doesnt make it true. Heck I floated one about Tywin having a hand in Joffs death that got shot down so quick it looked like drunk me at a lesbian bar....

So my question for you is. Why would Ashara Dayne fake her own death and run off to the other side of the continent...her "death" happened before anyone knew there were two survivors of the royal family, so she's not a closet Targ supporter....I cant see it advancing her family any.....revenge on Ned seems out of character for a Dayne.....give me something here, throw me a bone people...

I'm kinda in the same boat as you, Aegon. I love the crackpot theories - love to read them, love to think of them, but I'm terrible at supporting them.

I'm more of an "I'll believe it when I see it" person though - I don't really discount anything, but I'm also not fully on the bandwagon of anything yet. The only thing I can think of that may also support this theory is that the Daynes were very close to Rhaegar, so close to the Targaryens by default. Perhaps when Ashra knew that the war was lost and Arthur dead, she chose exile, and faked her death to keep anyone from searching for her. And while she was in exile, she could wait things out and see how things shake out in the future. Perhaps use this information to determine how she could best help.
 
Aegon the Unworthy said:
...give me something here, throw me a bone people...
Proof? You want proof? You couldn't handle the proof!

Actually, I never have any proof... just more wishful thinking.

Yes, it seems the Daynes were close to the Targaryens... and it seems that the Martells were close to the Targs also. But Ashara went for a Stark at the same time a Targ was going for a Stark.

Perhaps, just as Lyanna and Rhaegar might have had a *******, Ned and Ashara did have a ******* also. But the switcheroo was pulled and Ned ended up with what he thought was his ******* son, Jon. But Jon's parents are Rhaegar and Lyanna. Ned's real ******* is now called Gerold Dayne (how he could have been legitimized I have no idea) aka the Darkstar. His attempted murder of Myrcella could reveal... I dunno.
 
Boaz: It's all becoming clear now on who the heck this Darkstar guy was. I mean it's been bugging me something fierce. I guess that blows the theory that he's actually the baby Aegon that was supposedly killed by Gregor.
 
TK-421 said:
Boaz: It's all becoming clear now on who the heck this Darkstar guy was. I mean it's been bugging me something fierce. I guess that blows the theory that he's actually the baby Aegon that was supposedly killed by Gregor.

No, what blows that crackpot theory is that Darkstar is far too old to be baby Aegon.

And Arya, I think you're on to something!
 
AryaUnderfoot said:
I've got it!

Get this: Ashara is/was a girl.

Quaithe is.... a girl!

What do you think?

We really don't know that for sure. Quaithe wears a mask. Perhaps Quaithe is just an effeminate male.
 
Trey Greyjoy said:
Maybe Ashara was an effeminate male :p
You're a bad boy, TG. What if Ned threw her, err, I mean him, from the tower when he found out Ashara also possesed a sword of the morning?

Maybe Loras is a masculine female... after all Brienne is. Actually Renly may have thought that Brienne is a feminine male... after all Loras is.

Seriously, tsw is right. I seem to recall Martin stating in no uncertain terms that baby Aegon is still suffering from a severe case of the Gregors.

And finally... I don't know how much more silliness this thread can take... but I'm sure we'll make the effort.
 
Personally, I still hold to the theory that Hodor is Aegon, Ned was in fact Aery's, Bran is Michael Jackson and the Frey's are planning to form a band of travelling clowns and cleanse the wounds of westeors through the healing power of laughter. Either that or go on a psychotic killing spree. (I haven't yet figured out which type of the two clown sub-groups they belong to. I will report back here when I have more evidence, either way). :D
 
Re-reading the chapter in ACOK where Dany meets the envoys from Qarth, I noted that Quaithe alone spoke in the Common Tongue of the Seven Kingdoms.
 

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