To what extent does your setting dictate language use?

[MJRevell]

For instance, take 'regarded' - a synonym of the word 'looked'.

It's obviously quite commonly used throughout literature nowadays, especially (and perhaps only) when the story is set in a modern time. Due its French origins, and the fact that it is quite a modern word in the English language, would this immediately eliminate it from your vocabulary? Perhaps not so much if your story is modern, but if it is set in an older time? If it is set in a different world alltogether?

I'm particularly interested in the latter. If your story is in a different world - how do you feel about using words that are obviously French, Germanic, etc in origin? Obviously, our stories will be in English, even if they are in a different world - so ultimately, why should it matter what language we use?

Do you drop words from your vocabulary depending on the setting of your story? If so, how far does this go? If you dont use 'regarded' because your story is a medieval-esque setting in a completely different world, and thus it is years before the word was borrowed, and France doesn't even exist in your story. If you do this, then what about with others? And to what extent? Because suddenly, the vocabulary starts getting very thin.

I was just thinking about this, and thought i would ask you all about it. I apologise if i have caused confusion through bad wording.

 

[carrie221]

I think that it is still language so... I would add in words that may have been used in that timeperiod but I do not know if I would subtract words or you are right vocabulary would be greatly reduced. If you are writing about another world well if you are not going to develop an entirely new language you have to write in the one that you have so go for it and put in whatever words that you see fit.

 

[Rosemary]

I would certainly drop many of our everyday words, if it is out of place, such as a medieval or even science fiction setting...

On a truly fantasy world, then I would like to see 'created words' that reflect the ways of its inhabitants, their gods (if any) and also the names of its flora and fauna. Although, this isn't entirely necessary for I have read many books in a fantasy world and the usual name for ie; 'goat', did not look out of place.

 

[j d worthington]

It isn't so much the date the term was coined or borrowed, but how contemporary its connotations and "feel" are... for example, few people have ever batted an eye at Robert E. Howard's use of the word "mesmerism" in the Conan story "Shadows in Zamboula", despite the fact that it is directly derived from Friedrich Anton Mesmer (1733-1815). The reason for this is because it had become synonymous with the older hypnotism (itself, of course, derived from the name of the Greek god Hypnos). Had Howard ruled out words as too modern, he could have used neither term, as the stories were set about 17,000 B.C.E.

On the other hand, terms that do have a distinctly modern flavor should be avoided unless the story is set in modern times. And dialogue can go either way, depending on how your characters are supposed to sound (compare, for example, E. R. Eddison's The Worm Ouroboros or Fletcher Pratt's The Well of the Unicorn with John Myers Myers The Harp and the Blade or Silverlock; or, for something in the middle, Andre Norton's Witch World books).

As for the word you've chosen as an example, it originally meant looking back upon or thinking of with a particular feeling. It can also mean having or showing respect or concern for, thinking highly of; considering or taking into account; perceiving in a particular way; judging; paying attention to ("I have a high regard for his opinion"); referring to ("as regarding"); just as regard itself can also refer to a particular aspect of a person or thing. Any one of these should be fine for the main text or anything except extremely (even artificially or stiltedly) archaic dialogue. "Scan" would be acceptable in certain contexts, as "He scanned the horizon for any sign of his pursuers"; even though nowadays it has strong connotations with computing and photocopying.

So, as said, unless it has a distinctly alien ring within the style of the writing or the dialogue itself, no, there's no reason to eschew words because of their historical origins... though one wouldn't want, for instance, in paying a compliment to someone, for a medieval knight to say to that person: "You're a brick!" Not that WOULD be anachronistic!

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

My dictionary says "regard" dates back to Middle English, and I've certainly seen the word used in books that go back at least to the early 19th century, so I wouldn't call it a word with a modern flavor.

As a synonym for "look" it implies a more steady gaze, a longer look. "Look" can mean anything from a glance to a stare. So as the more precise word it would be desirable.

I'm sure there is thread on this topic somewhere around here. It's hard to dig these things up, though, with all the new threads.

So I'll just repeat what I've said before: as a reader and a writer it's very important to me that the language should help to convey a sense of time, place, character, mood, etc. If I'm reading a book I will put it down if I feel there's a disconnect between style and story; it just grates on me too much. We all have our individual likes and dislikes, and that's a very significant one for me.

But you have to be comfortable with the style of language you are using. It has to come naturally to you. Never try to write the kind of book you would never read yourself. (A surprising number of people try this, and it doesn't work.)

 

[ray gower]

Narrative should always be in a format your readers are comfortable with, but speech should always be written to suit the location and the origin of the characters e.g. A Liverpudlian may refer to one as "Wack" while a Welshman from the valleys may refer to one as "Boyo", neither term would be heard from Americans. Though such speech should never be at a level that an average reader has to start hunting for a dictionary of slang.

Sometimes it can work to an advantage: A Victorian vampire hunter may well refer to his quarry as being "Crepuscular", but a peasant innkeeper in Transylvania is unlikely to have ever heard of the word, let alone know what it means, so you have the opportunity to explain what the genuine term means.

 

[Redhawk]

I think this was a great question, and I'm rather in awe of the excellent responses you've received here...I think I love these people! What a gift this site is for making me THINK harder and become more aware! Thank you all!

I especially appreciate the consideration that we can flex a bit more in the descriptive narratives between the conversations...that makes good sense to me.

Since my current work takes place during the Middle Ages (in part) and Modern Times, now, that was something I had to worry about.

How "Period" did I need to be in order to create a believable flow of dialog between the Characters? Did they ever use "shortened" words? I'm vs. I am, Twas/ it was? Does Twould exist? Needed vs. Needful? What fun, eh?

Then locating sites that have actual writings from the period...more delights to boggle the mind...If I want the thing to be readable...then perhaps forgetting about the "accurate" spelling from the time is the best idea of all.

Lastly, keeping in mind WHO the characters ARE has become a guideline. A Noble does not speak as a commoner, it's almost a different language. Of course, when you really start to dig at information, you also learn that in many European countries...both the dialects and accents can differ from not only county to county as it were but from one STREET to the next!

 

[ray gower]

Lastly, keeping in mind WHO the characters ARE has become a guideline. A Noble does not speak as a commoner, it's almost a different language. Of course, when you really start to dig at information, you also learn that in many European countries...both the dialects and accents can differ from not only county to county as it were but from one STREET to the next!

Ooh, don't get me started on accents and dialects!

Even now, in the UK, the whole structure of the English language can change between villages, while too many so called historical novels would have everybody speaking the local equivalent of sanitised Eton, with the odd addition of 'Master' or 'Prithy Sire' for effect (William Shakespeare has a lot to answer for).

So, while the more formal writing theorists may disagree, yes, give your characters accents, apply local contractions even some mild slang. Provided it is not overdone, it adds to the richness of your characters and the story.

There be gurt 'an'ful of ee websites as caz 'elp ee (Or in English: There are a great number of websites that can help get the feel for accents)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/West_Country_dialects
http://www.bbc.co.uk/voices/
http://homepages.rootsweb.com/~oel/dictionaries.html
On the old Ascifi boards we also had some fun with accents and dialogue, sadly the punctuation did not travel well, but may give thoughts and ideas:
http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/29698-real-characters-for-fiction-challenge.html
http://www.chronicles-network.com/f...ngons-have-lumpy-heads-drabble-monologue.html

 

[j d worthington]

Redhawk -- indeed; that's one of the many fascinating things about this... language and history are inextricably intertwined, really, and even subtle changes in the one may reflect subtle (or great) changes in the other; sometimes an alteration in language may influence a decision that will have tremendous historical importance, as well. And the incredible diversity of dialect and pronunciation in even a small area can be quite astounding, and proper use of this can be a wonderful guide to character, as I've found by reading writers from a period where they were much less afraid of the words appearing odd on the page; after all, storytelling, even when it became short stories and novels, remained greatly influenced by oral narration, and so such passages when read aloud are often both elegant and informative, whereas by "sight-reading" methods they not infrequently boggle the modern reader. So, for using these differences in a tale where part is in mediaeval time, and part in modern, yes, it pays to be careful to observe the differences. My suggestion would be to write it as best you can spontaneously for the older methods of speech then, when doing the editing and revising, do the research to find the most appropriate words from the period while remaining not too difficult for a modern, literate reader; always being aware of how it flows -- you might want to take a look for example, at Eddison's Zimiamvian books, especially Mistress of Mistresses, which uses this technique to some degree (though all of Eddison's prose tends to have an archaic style to it, actually). Or look at Lovecraft's use of such in "He" and The Case of Charles Dexter Ward, where he has characters from past centuries addressing people from the 1920s; the contrast is handled quite well, but tells volumes about the character and their period; in neither case is it done to excess, in such a way as to interfere with a modern reader's ability to follow the narrative or even slow the pace of the prose.

EDIT: Ah, Ray, you beat me to it! Excellent advice!

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

You have to be very, very careful with dialect, though, and use it sparingly, because it can make very VERY hard going for readers who aren't familiar with it. Not to mention the fact that if you don't know the dialect very well yourself your characters end up sounding awkward and unlikely as well as unintelligible.

I've read a lot of manuscripts in a lot of writers groups where attempts at "rustic" dialects made the characters all sound like Popeye.

 

[Redhawk]

Great sites...THANKS! Yup...when I caught a gig playing an American Colonial in Historic Philly...a couple of years back, my charactor was Irish, the fun started when one of the other actors, FROM Ireland, was able to "place" where I would have originated from...based upon MY accent. (I'm Irish, but I'm not from the oud sod at all...and my family members who were originally are LONG gone!) He was able to pinpoint me within a 1 mile area of where my charactor would have come from...it was a hoot!

 

[Redhawk]

Thanks...I'll check those books out...I love language...too bad I'm so dim in learning to speak other languages!

 

[Mouse]

There be gurt 'an'ful of ee websites as caz 'elp ee

Ha ha! Oh, I do loik all they gurt websites that help 'ee!!

Personally I just use words in my writing that I use in my speech. I wrote 'gurt' into part of one of my character's dialogue once, then took it out cos I remembered she wasn't from the West Country!!