Hi all. Just finished reading Magician. I would love to have a discussion about it with anyone who really loved it. I will say now that I didn't really like it (just wrote a 2* review on Amazon). I am not here to insult anyone, or belittle anyone's opinions. I would just like to understand why people love it so much. When I read a book that many people love so much, and I don't enjoy it, I am keen to find out whether I'm missing something. I have read many positive reviews on Amazon which say "I loved it because it was great" - but that does no good to anyone.
Discussion of Magician
- Thread starter stu382
- Start date
Well... in my opinion it was great but mabye Mr feist isnt for you... mabye you need to read some more of the books to be able to decide whether you like them or not... it took me a couple of hours to get into Magician but when i did it was like i was in another world. Try Silverthorn and Darkness at Sethanon and if you start to like them or you are curious and want to read more, the Serpant war series is great. It consists of; Shadow of a dark queen, rise of a merchant prince, rage of a demon king and shards of a broken crown. I love all these books and i hope you will learn to love them too. If you dont mabye its just not for you.
Winters_Sorrow
Well-Known Member
I just found the prose well constructed and easy to follow.
The characters were likeable and felt "real". The storyline was captivating at times and although it is fairly 'generic' with elves, goblins etc it didn't really feel that cliched and the parts of the story set in Kelewan allowed a fancinating insight into both sides of the war.
I'm sorry it didn't appeal to you. To me it's one of the landmark fantasy books which I still return to re-read every so often.
Perhaps, as Tinuva suggested, your tastes in fantasy novels lie elsewhere. Not a bad thing - everyone has differing tastes. Which authors/novels do you consider good?
The characters were likeable and felt "real". The storyline was captivating at times and although it is fairly 'generic' with elves, goblins etc it didn't really feel that cliched and the parts of the story set in Kelewan allowed a fancinating insight into both sides of the war.
I'm sorry it didn't appeal to you. To me it's one of the landmark fantasy books which I still return to re-read every so often.
Perhaps, as Tinuva suggested, your tastes in fantasy novels lie elsewhere. Not a bad thing - everyone has differing tastes. Which authors/novels do you consider good?
Magician, was my introduction to fantasy and still my favourite book.Definitely his best work.Nothing he has done since can really compare to it except maybe the Empire series.
but if I hadn't read Magician, given me a taste for Fantasy then I'd never have discovered Erikson, or a number of other great authors.
sanityassassin
he's the madcap pusher
I had the book for years and kept passing on reading it and after a few chapters I thought my choice to avoid it was right but as it went on it grew on me and turned into a great story. I think what attracts me to good stories is getting attached to characters if I feel no empathy for the main protaganists I usually dislike the book but as I read Magician the characters grew on me and that I think made it good story
Despondent
Member
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- Sep 5, 2006
- Messages
- 16
Like it was to nixie, Magician was my introduction to fantasy. In fact, the only fantasy I've read are eight of Feist's books. To me fantasy is Raymond Feist. Since then I've tried picking up a few other novels (Tolkien, Ian Irvine, some other guy whose name I can't remember) but couldn't get through more than a few pages of each. It wasn't Feist, but after eight books I've had enough of Feist. So for me fantasy will always be Feist.
I think the jewel of his universe is Kelewan. Intrigue. Machinations. Politics. Enterprise. Thyza bread. Daughter and Servant of the Empire is what you should pick up if you want to see Feist at his best (granted he had help from Wurts).
As for Magician specifically...I loved the streets of Krondor, Jimmy the hand, 'inns' and taverns with names like the 'Sailor's Ease' and the 'Fiddler Crab'. There's a phrase I still remember, goes something like: "Arutha refused to consider what might be in the filling of the meat pie along with the beef and pork the hawker claimed." That cracked me up.
I liked Pug's small quarters in the tower of the castle of Krydee. The midsummer's feast. Roland, Tomas and Pug intoxicated on the floor of the ale shed. Of course I liked reading about a magician's apprentice. (I suppose that may be why Harry Potter is so goddam popular, and a plethora of other books and movies. Not about magician's apprentices specifically, but about some kid or newcomer learning and eventually becoming the best. Power of One, Ender's Game, The Matrix etc etc).
I better stop, I'm about to start crying from nostalgia.
I think the jewel of his universe is Kelewan. Intrigue. Machinations. Politics. Enterprise. Thyza bread. Daughter and Servant of the Empire is what you should pick up if you want to see Feist at his best (granted he had help from Wurts).
As for Magician specifically...I loved the streets of Krondor, Jimmy the hand, 'inns' and taverns with names like the 'Sailor's Ease' and the 'Fiddler Crab'. There's a phrase I still remember, goes something like: "Arutha refused to consider what might be in the filling of the meat pie along with the beef and pork the hawker claimed." That cracked me up.
I liked Pug's small quarters in the tower of the castle of Krydee. The midsummer's feast. Roland, Tomas and Pug intoxicated on the floor of the ale shed. Of course I liked reading about a magician's apprentice. (I suppose that may be why Harry Potter is so goddam popular, and a plethora of other books and movies. Not about magician's apprentices specifically, but about some kid or newcomer learning and eventually becoming the best. Power of One, Ender's Game, The Matrix etc etc).
I better stop, I'm about to start crying from nostalgia.
I picked up Magician on the cheap, when I joined a bookclub because they had an offer on Pratchett which I was reading at the time. It sat unread on my bookshelf for best part of 4 years. Then I ran out of Pratchetts, so finally read it. I thought it was so good I now have 14 Feists and as long as I keep finding more, I'll keep reading more.
I thought Magician was fantastic, the Characters and settings were really well written and well developed throughout the following books. I like that Feist is not afraid to kill his characters. Although I was a bit shocked with Magician because almost everybody died! But it's good that he does that every now and then because it gives you the finalised lives of one set of characters and opens up a new set of characters.
The other great thing about Feist is that each book is a complete story in it's own right. The second book I read was Prince of the Blood, it just happened to be the firat one I found. I had no trouble following the story, even though I was a few books ahead of myself. Sometimes it is really hard to read several books set with the same characters as references are made to other parts of the series. I don't find that with Feist at all. So far I have really enjoyed every book.
But, back to Magician. The whole book was very well presented. I haven't read the originally published version, I have the re-written version.
It is really difficult to strecth a story over a long time frame and Feist did a fantastic job of it.
I know the book isn't exactly short, but it's not overly long either considering the number of characters and storylines it covers.
The book has a really good balance of serious and humorous characters, human characters for those who haven't read a lot of fantasy, familiar fantasy characters for those who have, magic, big fights, dragons, little fights, storming castle, romance, heroes, villains, rescues and sad bits. A little bit of everything so there's something in there for everyone.
I thought Magician was fantastic, the Characters and settings were really well written and well developed throughout the following books. I like that Feist is not afraid to kill his characters. Although I was a bit shocked with Magician because almost everybody died! But it's good that he does that every now and then because it gives you the finalised lives of one set of characters and opens up a new set of characters.
The other great thing about Feist is that each book is a complete story in it's own right. The second book I read was Prince of the Blood, it just happened to be the firat one I found. I had no trouble following the story, even though I was a few books ahead of myself. Sometimes it is really hard to read several books set with the same characters as references are made to other parts of the series. I don't find that with Feist at all. So far I have really enjoyed every book.
But, back to Magician. The whole book was very well presented. I haven't read the originally published version, I have the re-written version.
It is really difficult to strecth a story over a long time frame and Feist did a fantastic job of it.
I know the book isn't exactly short, but it's not overly long either considering the number of characters and storylines it covers.
The book has a really good balance of serious and humorous characters, human characters for those who haven't read a lot of fantasy, familiar fantasy characters for those who have, magic, big fights, dragons, little fights, storming castle, romance, heroes, villains, rescues and sad bits. A little bit of everything so there's something in there for everyone.
Dreamerwolf
New Member
- Joined
- Sep 19, 2006
- Messages
- 3
Well, Ive been reading fantasy for many years, and IMO, 'Magician' was one of the best ever - even better because I got it as two books - "Magician - Apprentice" and "Magician - Master". As many others have said, the characters were very well developed and believable, with great plots and sub-plots.
After that I was hooked on Feist and have read everything he's published. I always look forward to a new book and a new opportunity to go back to Midkemia for awhile.
I also agree with those who appreciate REF's books because he finishes a story within a few books, moves on down the road timewise and starts another adventure. While I'll admit I read 'em, authors like Jordan and Goodkind become very boring at times because they drag the story on, book after book, with no resolution of events and no end in sight. Not so with REF.
After that I was hooked on Feist and have read everything he's published. I always look forward to a new book and a new opportunity to go back to Midkemia for awhile.
I also agree with those who appreciate REF's books because he finishes a story within a few books, moves on down the road timewise and starts another adventure. While I'll admit I read 'em, authors like Jordan and Goodkind become very boring at times because they drag the story on, book after book, with no resolution of events and no end in sight. Not so with REF.
Panic_Fire
Member
- Joined
- Sep 10, 2006
- Messages
- 7
i started my fantasy reading with tolkien (way before the film hype stuff i might say, i read the books 8 years ago when i was 12)
but then someone told me to look into a writer named: Raymoned E. Feist
and i just Loved his books. i read Magician, and it appealed to me in a way tolkien hadden't (probably because i was too young for tolkien then).
i don't think Magician was his best work, i find the empire trilogy a lot better, because it was excitingly new
But Puc wil always stay one of my favourite characters in a book.
but then someone told me to look into a writer named: Raymoned E. Feist
and i just Loved his books. i read Magician, and it appealed to me in a way tolkien hadden't (probably because i was too young for tolkien then).
i don't think Magician was his best work, i find the empire trilogy a lot better, because it was excitingly new
But Puc wil always stay one of my favourite characters in a book.
Aha! Finally my review has come on Amazon. Here it is. Please let me know what you think of my points.
"I was just about to go into the cinema to watch Black Hawk Down a few years ago and a mate told me about the 2 hour long battle scene. GREAT!! I thought. However, halfway through I wanted some respite. This book left me with a similar feeling. The reviews mention 'Epic scope' and 'fast-moving action' - like Black Hawk Down I thought GREAT!!. However I feel that this book has far TOO many (main) characters in it - we never get to know any of them properly. Also, with Pug learning about magic and Tomas learning about the ancient powers, there is too much going on at once, let alone if you include the actual war between the Kingdom and the Tsuranis.
The action is also strangely presented. The siege of Crydee, for example, took up around 3 chapters, and we just hear over and over again about repelled attacks against one wall. Coverage of the war gets VERY repetitive. And yet the final battle at the end (in 2 parts, with the first part brushed over totally) is lacking. If, like me, you like stories about a small, tight-knit band going on a long journey, then this book isn't for you.
There also doesn't seem to be a moral to this story. With this in mind, and with the multitude of stories and characters, it feels more like an historical textbook at times. It also reads more like an historical war novel than a fantasy book. Yes there's magic - but very little, and the other races read like humans. This book would be little different if the Tsurani, elves and dwarves were just replaced with humans.
Something else that has been mentioned by others, is the passage of time. This book, the first in a trilogy remember, takes place over something like 8 years. These include the formative years of nearly all the major characters.
Maybe this last point is a bit cynical, but me and some mates have found recently that many authors seek an emotional cop-out by putting in a few love interests (none more guilty that in Dragonlance). Whilst the romance in this book is less corny and trashy than Dragonlance, it still seems hollow, coming from the lack of character depth I suppose. OK I'm not expecting, or even wanting, Wuthering Heights or Pride and Prejudice, but I don't see why they need to be included. The benchmark for me is the Dark Elf set of books by R.A. Salvatore, which concentrate on the strong friendships that Drizzt (main character) builds up with those he meets. These seem far more emotionally filled, and Salvatore does not need to resort to cheap infatuations. The first quarter of Magician is dotted with references to the love triangle between Pug, Carline and Roland, which Mr. Feist spends a long time getting the reader emotionally involved in, only for it to peter out to nothing.
In conclusion, it seems to me that Mr. Feist thought up a lot of good ideas, and, maybe worried that he would not be able to get further books published, decided to cram them all in to this one book. It is a mistake often made by writers, particularly in fantasy (see the Dragonlance Chronicles). I am not particularly fond of heavy literature, complex character studies and the like, and yet this book left me wanting. Some books are content with being fast-paced and action-packed, but, as with Black Hawk Down, this can only last so long. Maybe I'm being too harsh on Mr. Feist. I can already hear calls of "it isn't supposed to be 'Crime and Punishment'", but I feel that if it wants to be a fun, action-packed read, it needs to be a lot shorter. It seems as though Mr. Feist didn't know whether to make it a proper epic, or to make it more of a romp, and ended up getting neither.
It's a shame these Amazon reviews aren't on a forum basis, because I'd love to discuss this book with someone who really loved it. Nevermind."
"I was just about to go into the cinema to watch Black Hawk Down a few years ago and a mate told me about the 2 hour long battle scene. GREAT!! I thought. However, halfway through I wanted some respite. This book left me with a similar feeling. The reviews mention 'Epic scope' and 'fast-moving action' - like Black Hawk Down I thought GREAT!!. However I feel that this book has far TOO many (main) characters in it - we never get to know any of them properly. Also, with Pug learning about magic and Tomas learning about the ancient powers, there is too much going on at once, let alone if you include the actual war between the Kingdom and the Tsuranis.
The action is also strangely presented. The siege of Crydee, for example, took up around 3 chapters, and we just hear over and over again about repelled attacks against one wall. Coverage of the war gets VERY repetitive. And yet the final battle at the end (in 2 parts, with the first part brushed over totally) is lacking. If, like me, you like stories about a small, tight-knit band going on a long journey, then this book isn't for you.
There also doesn't seem to be a moral to this story. With this in mind, and with the multitude of stories and characters, it feels more like an historical textbook at times. It also reads more like an historical war novel than a fantasy book. Yes there's magic - but very little, and the other races read like humans. This book would be little different if the Tsurani, elves and dwarves were just replaced with humans.
Something else that has been mentioned by others, is the passage of time. This book, the first in a trilogy remember, takes place over something like 8 years. These include the formative years of nearly all the major characters.
Maybe this last point is a bit cynical, but me and some mates have found recently that many authors seek an emotional cop-out by putting in a few love interests (none more guilty that in Dragonlance). Whilst the romance in this book is less corny and trashy than Dragonlance, it still seems hollow, coming from the lack of character depth I suppose. OK I'm not expecting, or even wanting, Wuthering Heights or Pride and Prejudice, but I don't see why they need to be included. The benchmark for me is the Dark Elf set of books by R.A. Salvatore, which concentrate on the strong friendships that Drizzt (main character) builds up with those he meets. These seem far more emotionally filled, and Salvatore does not need to resort to cheap infatuations. The first quarter of Magician is dotted with references to the love triangle between Pug, Carline and Roland, which Mr. Feist spends a long time getting the reader emotionally involved in, only for it to peter out to nothing.
In conclusion, it seems to me that Mr. Feist thought up a lot of good ideas, and, maybe worried that he would not be able to get further books published, decided to cram them all in to this one book. It is a mistake often made by writers, particularly in fantasy (see the Dragonlance Chronicles). I am not particularly fond of heavy literature, complex character studies and the like, and yet this book left me wanting. Some books are content with being fast-paced and action-packed, but, as with Black Hawk Down, this can only last so long. Maybe I'm being too harsh on Mr. Feist. I can already hear calls of "it isn't supposed to be 'Crime and Punishment'", but I feel that if it wants to be a fun, action-packed read, it needs to be a lot shorter. It seems as though Mr. Feist didn't know whether to make it a proper epic, or to make it more of a romp, and ended up getting neither.
It's a shame these Amazon reviews aren't on a forum basis, because I'd love to discuss this book with someone who really loved it. Nevermind."
Winters_Sorrow
Well-Known Member
Hello Stu382 & welcome to the forums.
As for discussing this book with someone who loved it, you've come to the right place. Amazon have to sell books, not talk about them. Here we have no such agenda
It seems to me your biggest complaint with Magician was that it was too ambitious. Rather than focus on the tales of one company or character through a story it tells it through the eyes of at least 5 protagonists who's adventures often occur hundreds of miles apart and occassionally on different worlds.
A Fiest novel more to your liking would probably be the "Serpentwar" series. These focus on the story of the "Doomed Men" (kind of a fantasy Dirty Dozen I suppose) and in particular the story of Erik Von Darkmoor and his companion Rupert Avery. There is much more indepth descriptions of war and the story is exclusively on their plight.
Anyway, back to Magician. I understand your points (especially the one regarding the romance with Carline even though there is some degree of payoff at the very end and, rather adult-ly, it also shows you can't recapture lost love) but those were some of the reasons I was drawn to it. It was a lot to remember, multiple (but linked) stories each going on at a different pace.
The RA Salvatore dark elf trilogy is very good but it's a bit like comparing apples & oranges. They're not trying to tell the same kind of story. In fact with that one, the character came first, then the backstory!
Oh, and I didn't really like Black Hawk Down but there you go.
As for discussing this book with someone who loved it, you've come to the right place. Amazon have to sell books, not talk about them. Here we have no such agenda
It seems to me your biggest complaint with Magician was that it was too ambitious. Rather than focus on the tales of one company or character through a story it tells it through the eyes of at least 5 protagonists who's adventures often occur hundreds of miles apart and occassionally on different worlds.
A Fiest novel more to your liking would probably be the "Serpentwar" series. These focus on the story of the "Doomed Men" (kind of a fantasy Dirty Dozen I suppose) and in particular the story of Erik Von Darkmoor and his companion Rupert Avery. There is much more indepth descriptions of war and the story is exclusively on their plight.
Anyway, back to Magician. I understand your points (especially the one regarding the romance with Carline even though there is some degree of payoff at the very end and, rather adult-ly, it also shows you can't recapture lost love) but those were some of the reasons I was drawn to it. It was a lot to remember, multiple (but linked) stories each going on at a different pace.
The RA Salvatore dark elf trilogy is very good but it's a bit like comparing apples & oranges. They're not trying to tell the same kind of story. In fact with that one, the character came first, then the backstory!
Oh, and I didn't really like Black Hawk Down but there you go.
Teir
Lost in Thought
- Joined
- Aug 19, 2005
- Messages
- 347
I'm a fan of this book
I had read the empire series a few years before hand and apart from it being a story which just grabbed me and held me there, it was so awesome to read the other side of the story. Already having the opposite perspective gave it another level completely. I read the rest of the series as well and the same thing was true for quite a few events in the other books. At the same time Magician was the fresh start to a new story (and for someone addicted to a good fantasy yarn that was a beautiful thing ) and the completion of another. I found it very entertaining
God the series as a whole is a lesson in mortality isn't it? lol....so many years and people go by....
I don't know about the whole set......im not a real fan of the ending...but magician itself was great
I had read the empire series a few years before hand and apart from it being a story which just grabbed me and held me there, it was so awesome to read the other side of the story. Already having the opposite perspective gave it another level completely. I read the rest of the series as well and the same thing was true for quite a few events in the other books. At the same time Magician was the fresh start to a new story (and for someone addicted to a good fantasy yarn that was a beautiful thing
) and the completion of another. I found it very entertaining God the series as a whole is a lesson in mortality isn't it? lol....so many years and people go by....
I don't know about the whole set......im not a real fan of the ending...but magician itself was great
The Upright Man
Science fiction fantasy
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 363
i was bought Magician as a last resort by my parents as I had read every other book by my favourite authors (Eoin Colfer and Anthony Horowitz if your wondering) and since that day I have fallen in love with the man (not anything sexual, just his way of writing).
the first chapter of Magician put me off it for a while as I dint really like it, however after get bored of re-reading Harry Potter again, I decided to pick it back up and I was Intrigued to find that it was better than I had first thought. I was quickly drawn into a world of magic and myth, that just kept me in suspence and awe throughout.
so I dont mind Stu that you didnt like it, maybe your a lot like me (except for the same name, that is) maybe after reading it and the other books you'll grow to love it.
the first chapter of Magician put me off it for a while as I dint really like it, however after get bored of re-reading Harry Potter again, I decided to pick it back up and I was Intrigued to find that it was better than I had first thought. I was quickly drawn into a world of magic and myth, that just kept me in suspence and awe throughout.
so I dont mind Stu that you didnt like it, maybe your a lot like me (except for the same name, that is) maybe after reading it and the other books you'll grow to love it.
The Upright Man
Science fiction fantasy
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2006
- Messages
- 363
i know that sounds like a reviw but dont shoot me im just the messenger
night watcher
New Member
- Joined
- Jan 27, 2007
- Messages
- 3
The Magician is one of the best Fanasty novels I have ever read. Fiest Wrights the books so every can enjoy them. Thomas was the most confessed characters is the book after gettting the armour of the Draron Lord
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