Lacedaemonian - New Chapter

[Lacedaemonian]

He is hamming it up for the interrogators. Not for the reader. When not being asked questions, he speaks relatively normal. I will be revising the dialogue - I always was - but the essence of what he is will remain.

I wont be moved. Not on this. Living where I do, I am surrounded by an absolute wealth of accents so I recognise that I am better suited to read this. However, I do not understand which lines of dialogue they are struggling with.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

It's not just hard, Lace. To me it doesn't sound like a dialect someone would really use. It rings false. (Maybe that's my ignorance as an American -- although we do have dialects and accents, too.)

But there you are indeed, in the north of England, where the accent and the dialect sounds very colorful to the rest of the world, and if your character spoke in broad Yorkshire you'd give him a wonderful flavor AND be able to do it with absolute authenticity.

 

[Lacedaemonian]

I would iron out some of the irregularities and settle for one accent when I am sure of what I want. I am not worried at all about the dialect. It would be very easy to fix. However, some of the dialogue does not belong to any regional dialect. It is quite painfully obvious that he uses suffixes when there is no need. I was quite liberal with the (s) and quite literally just banged it in where ever.

A question though Teresa; who is to say what is a good or bad dialect in a fantasy realm?

I was not in anyway tying to be clever with this. The character built himself inside my head. I have also read many novels with similarily difficult dialogue. You become accustomed to it after a page or two. And like most things in life, you appreciate it more when you have had to work for it.

God damn the reader!!

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

A question though Teresa; who is to say what is a good or bad dialect in a fantasy realm?

I was not in anyway tying to be clever with this. The character built himself inside my head. I have also read many novels with similarily difficult dialogue. You become accustomed to it after a page or two. And like most things in life, you appreciate it more when you have had to work for it.

It's bad dialect if the first impression that comes to mind is a cartoon sailor or pirate -- unless, of course, your character is a cartoon pirate.

Also, not all readers do become accustomed to heavy dialect after a page or two. Many won't read that far. This is the kind of thing that writers struggle with all the time. It takes a very good ear and/or a very light hand to get it right.

In any case, you seem to have made up your mind, and it is your decision to make, so there doesn't seem to be much reason to argue the point.

 

[Lacedaemonian]

The character is being comical on purpose in this scene. In other scenes he is quite normal I assure you. I may post a more polished piece over the weekend.

You arguments are absolutely valid. However, the reader would find this use of dialect quite amusing especially when they have already met this character and are aware that he is literally taking the piss in this scene.

There are many successful authors have used this device (though not to this extreme). Erikson uses it to varying degrees with many of his characters. ie Kulp and Iskaral Pust.

You may notice that the dialect become more diluted as the passage goes on.

 

[Green]

I didn't have a problem with it at all, really. Probably needs some polishing, but I got used to it soon enough and it didn't bother me.

I've read other (published, successful) examples of this kind of thing where it took a lot longer to get used to, and took more work. Feersum Endjinn and A Clockwork Orange, for example. Both of those were much more extensive (a whole language almost, in the latter) and, certainly, involved more crafting, but nevertheless this stuff pales in comparison.

So yeah, doesn't bother me, just get the syntax spot on and consistent.

But I guess you're changing it, anyway. Just my opinion.

 

[Lacedaemonian]

I wont be changing it wholesale.

Just refining the dialogue and making it more consistant. The dialogue is supposed to be ridiculous. Pirate like - if you choose to make that reference. He says some pretty important and harmful stuff, which he would not get away with saying if not for the comedy. He of course lies constantly too. Much of what he says does not match the action that take places later either through backflashes etc etc. But like a good liar he mixes his lies with truths.

I have visualised him telling the interrogators that he has consistantly lied to them right at the end of the story. Of course all of the characters he has talked about suddenly become very much a present situation.

A Clockwork Orange has very difficult dialogue, which messes with your head quite a bit. I am certain that it is meant to though.

 

[Sparker]

Hiya Lace, I'm new to this so apologies for not reading anything of yours before.

Firstly, I think the dialect is great in this. Once I settled into it I found it no problem at all. The first paragraph is a little difficult because it seems more packed with the dialect features but I was intrigued (and determined) enough to battle through.

As for the description of the scene, people etc, it wouldn't hurt. I know what you mean about not writing it if it's not clear in your head. Sometimes writing something that you're not clear on can ruin the bits you are clear on... does that make sense?

I also like the general idea of the interogation theme. If there's any more of them on here by you (which I'm now going to have a look for) I'll have a read.

 

[Lacedaemonian]

Why thank you Sparker! You are quite right in your assertion, I do not see the point in adding paragraphs of detail that will ruin the feel of the passage as a whole.

 

[jackokent]

I started off really not liking this. My intial impression was of deliberatly difficult and contrived dialogue. As I got into it I started enjoying at and even found myself grinning. I didn't need any description, somehow I got a wonderfully vivid impression of Emerald, the princess and the Cardinal.

I think in reality the effort of reading would be too much for most people. If I am totally honest, if you'd been a newcomer I would have given up in paras 2 or 3 and not bothered with it. That's probably unfair but it's true. I'd normally caution against making life too difficult for the reader but as you say Anthony Burgess didn't seem to let that bother him and if it's what you want to do then I think you do it well at least.

My biggest difficulty was not knowing who was speaking until after they had spoken. Overall I really enjoyed it and loved the wonderul image you have painted of the Fields family.

 

[Lacedaemonian]

I understand the issues with dialogue, and appreciate you giving me the benefit of the doubt. Emerald is trying to confuse the interogators. Or at least anoy them.

The Fields family are very interesting unless of course Emerald is lying.

 

[Paradox 99]

Hmmm, I read the polished version first before reading this.
I have to agree with the others - I prefer this version actually. The polished version doesn't flow as well for some reason (maybe its overediting that does that) and the opening of this version does a better job of introducing Emerald's speech.

However, that said, I rather liked the description of the cardinal in the newer version. I'm sure that a fusion of the two will produce something even better.

 

[Green]

I reckon this version is of very high quality, and only needs a polish of the syntax of the guy's language, and a little extra description of the princess and cardinal, and what they're doing (are they having sex while Emerald talks? probably not, but you get my drift).

It is very original.

 

[Lacedaemonian]

Thanks mate. My thoughts too. I think I need to strike a balance with the two efforts.