Where is the Spider?

[Winters_Sorrow]

Apologies if there's already a thread on this but we've had numerous discussions on where Tyrion is, Dany etc but not much on one of the major players and arch-manipulators of the series. Littlefinger gets all the publicity and has managed to weasel his way into Jon Ayrrn's seat but Varys is someone we've never spent much time with.

So, where has he gone? The last time we saw him was assisting Jaime to free Tyrion. Probably the likeliest place for him to go is to Illryio but in the Tyrion sample chapter for ADwD he didn't make an appearance. He obviously could still be with Illyrio but I think he would have met Tyrion if so.
So, if he's not there - where is he?
Here's some suggestions;

With Prince Doran in Dorne. He would have been the perfect liaison/go-between to use to set up this alliance with Quentyn and Dany and could use his network in Westeros to keep Doran appraised of events so he could move his forces against Highgarden/Kings Landing at the opportune time.

With Dany in Meereen. This is probably the most likely place after Illyrio but what could he offer Dany? She is in no position (yet) to invade Westeros or even to influence events there. He would again be a useful go-between to possibly forment unrest back in the Seven Kingdoms (like that'd be hard, the way things are) but it's too soon for him to reveal himself to her I think.

With Ayra/Faceless Men in Braavos (or maybe just to be in Braavos). Well it's close enough to Westeros so he could stay in touch with his spies but there's no-one in Braavos to work with, as far as we know anyway.

With the Night's Watch at the Wall. Extremely far-fetched but I thought I'd throw it out there. Varys' primary concern appears to be the 'welfare of the country' so he must know or have some idea of the growing threat in the North, however his relationship with Stannis is poor and I doubt he'd show up here.

With Sam in Oldtown. This is a bit off-beat but Oldtown seems to be a place of secrets, plots and knowledge and the Spider could be in the shadows pulling some of the strings.

What are your thoughts?

 

[Culhwch]

Still in King's Landing. I think he has made it too much of a home to abandon it. It's a safety net. Everywhere else he is at a disadvantage. But in KL, everything is right there at his fingertips. His agents could achieve just about everything you've mentioned, I reckon. And there would have to be the attraction of being right there under Cersei's nose the whole time...

 

[Werthead]

I think it is quite likely he remains in King's Landing or nearby. His ability to hide in plain sight is remarkable. I wouldn't put it past Martin to have actually had Varys in AFFC, but we didn't recognise him at the time. He's lying low until he can return to power and influence, which, with Cersei's downfall, may be sooner than first appears.

 

[Weasel Soup]

Aggreed he's in King's Landing. Disguised and listeneing , that i agree with too. But, his mouth and ears shut, not bloody likely.

 

[Boaz]

Could the disappearance of Varys coincide with the rise of the Sparrows and the Faith? Is Varys manipulating the religious revival for his own ends?

I've proposed, in some other thread, that Bronn might be a spy for Varys. Bronn is now Ser Bronn and almost Lord Stokeworth. He has a little regional power, but not enough to openly flaunt the Queen Regent the way he has. Only Cersei's arrest has seemingly kept his head off the chopping block. Could Varys be hiding out with Bronn? Could Varys' information and influence be providing Bronn with the power to defy the Queen? Could Varys have manipulated the High Septon into arresting Cersei to keep her from capturing Stokeworth and revealing the Spider's hiding place?

The fat man who was High Septon when AGOT started was killed in ACOK. The next High Septon was raised up by Tyrion. Is this man still High Septon? My memory is hazy, but I seem to recall that he died and a new man, a Sparrow, was chosen as High Septon. Is the current High Septon one of Varys' agents?

 

[Werthead]

I personally think Jalabher Xho is in Varys and Ilyrio's pay. Varys is probably paying him to spy for him in court in return for Daenerys' help in retaking the Summer Islands once she comes into her throne.

 

[Boaz]

Good thinking, Wert. Xho wears ostentatious clothes that are covered in vibrant plumes from exotic fowl from the Summer Isles, correct? Could Varys be referring to Xho specifically when he says "Little Birds"?

 

[ras'matroi]

@ Boaz: if you argue along that way ...
Sparrows are little birds. Could it be that Varys is referring to them?

 

[TK-421]

Yes to Xho. Yes to the High Septon (I always suspected that the Sparrows and Dany would unite to destroy the foreign God and those who abuse their power and the weak i.e. Stannis and his flaming heart and the Lannisters and their lust for power). And now that I think of it, yes to Bronn. Wow, I feel so cheap having my mind made up for me so easily. I would do well in Bangkok

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

No no no no to Bronn....I cant say this enough. For Bronn to be a "little bird", Varys would have had to place him at the inn Catelyn arrested Tyrion with orders to protect the dwarf....he would have had to have foreseen Tyrions rise to prominence leading up to Stannis' attack on KL. If you expect me to believe Varys is that omniscient then we need to give up the books cause Varys already won.

Bronn was a sell-sword, that much is unfakable. His attitude and his actions are completely in agreement with the persona he is playing. He has done nothing that would suggest otherwise.

I think sometimes a knave is merely a knave.

I dont even want to dicuss the Sparrows with you crazy people....and I mean that in the nicest way possible.

 

[Boaz]

Ras, good observation.

Aegon, I'm not saying that Bronn was specifically sent to that inn to wait for the savages to bring Tyrion back. I envision Varys having a network of "associates", people who have worked for him in the past and who know he'll pay well if they can produce. Bronn was quick to jump on the Catelyn bandwagon... could he have thought the Hand's family a good place to spy from? I think Bronn was playing both sides, which would have been fine with Varys. Imo, if Bronn could ever get a sweeter deal than Varys', I have no doubt he'd turn cloak again.

Then again, with so much time on our hands before ADWD, we all see (Okay, I confess I see) conspiracies galore.

I also confess that I've been wrong before. BFD.

 

[Centurion]

I remember a passage where Arya overheard Varys (i think) and Illyrio plotting...so perhaps he's with Illyrio and Tyrion?

 

[TK-421]

Yes, Varys would of gotten to Bronn after he arrived in KL.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Boazie baby,

I like conspiracies....love em. The problem is though I dont like complete conjecture. Yes it makes sense, yes it is a possibility, but theres nothing there to point to and say "hey, that could mean X".....theres just no proof.

A couple months back I floated an idea that Tywin had a hand in Joffreys death. It was shot down and rather brutally by this very forum....but it was all predicated on one line.....Tywin uttered one line that made it possible in my mind. So you give me one line or action by Bronn that was out of place and could be construed as being a creature of Varys and I will concede the point. Otherwise its just conjecture. Yes it would be in character for Bronn to play both sides, but it would also be in character for him not to.

From what I have experienced about the human condition one of the most touching scenes was when Tyrion was in prison and looking for a way out and Bronn declined. He was saddened. Not in a "oh my god Im gonna cry" kind of way but in a "I regret being so selfish, but this is the way I am" sort of way. And they both understood where the other stood, and while they had genuine affection for each other it was not enough to overcome the chasm that was their very nature. Maybe I just dont want that scene tarnished.


Now I can think of at least one time in the series where Martin blindsided us with something (that would be the Kettleblack loyalties) but for the most part there are hints and something that marks the issue beforehand. Give me a hint, a sniff of something and Ill concede the point.

 

[Boaz]

Aegon, I have nothing concrete to support Bronn working for Varys. All I have is supposition and conjecture.

Did you ever read Agatha Christie? When I was around twenty years old, I read a bunch of her stories. She taught me to try to solve her mysteries using only conjecture because she never, never, never, never, never, never gave concrete clues. The clues she gave were thrown out the window in the last chapter. Hercule Poirot or Miss Marple would walk in and say, "It was not the butler. Yes, I know there was blood on his shoes and pants. Yes, I know he was the only other person in the house. Yes, I know he had motive. But the real killer is the gardener! Yes, I know you were on holiday at Dover. Yes, I know you never actually ever spoke with the deceased. Yes, I know all that... but I also know that you are giving me now is the look that only someone who studied poisons with their freemason grandfather could give. Yes, I know the deceased was not poisoned, but I do know that the new ultra secret experimental laundry service from Dover to York was first tested last Monday evening. You made the trip in the back the van and killed Sir Humphrey. I know this because your ring finger is slightly pale... it's a hereditary trait mind you. So I suppose that your parents own a laundry in Dover! Aha! I know that I've never seen you until five minutes ago, but I'd stake my life that I'm correct." Christie took deus ex machina to a whole new level.

The only evidence I might have must be viewed with a predjudice towards Bronn as a double agent already firmly in mind. It's the scene in Tyrion's chambers where Bronn, in front of Varys, suggests murdering Joffrey to Tyrion.

Tyrion's location has been given away in the preview chapter. But where is the Spider? Where is the Blackfish? Where is the Hound? Where is the Mountain? Where is the Bear, Ser Jorah? Where is the Sandsnake, Sarella? Where is Jaqen? Where is Theon? Where is Asha? Where is Rickon? Where is Darkstar? Where is baby Aegon? Where is Tysha?

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Im familiar with the old murder mysteries and Ive seen the movie Clue (not that you asked), and if George pulls that stunt I think the series would suffer for it so Im not ready to believe. If you think Bronn is a bird, the you have to believe Varys is at the Stokeworth Estates....close enough to KL to get back there but far enough away to escape notice....thats an aside not really important.

Anyhow I concede the possibility that Bronn is Varys' man, just not the probability. And for what its worth, I dont want it to be that way.

 

[Koopa]

I think it unlikely Bronn was in Varys pockets from the get go, however i do not see it unlikely that once both men met in the Red keep that (after Tyrions capture thus making it so that Tyrion could not back him higher then varys might and Cersei could) that they came together.

After all Bronn is an opportunist, why not help Varys out, after all the queen probably has a dislike for him already, so what is the worst that could happen for Bronn by backing Varys from that point on.

 

[TK-421]

Well, I found Bronn to be quite secretive in his new position as Lord. Especially in turning away and ridiculing thta other Lord who went to deal with him in the name of the Queen Regent (can't think of who it was - some blowhard). Anyway, is he hiding something or someone?

 

[Koopa]

He was not Lord Stokeworth, he married the younger sister, the older sister husband went out and dueled him

 

[Young stormlord]

And died. Cersei than gave Falissa to Kyburn for his experiments. When Cersei got captured he told her that her fighter is ready.(Gregor Clegany anyone?)