Finding and Agent

[Stargazer1976]

Finding an Agent

I am still fairly new on this site and have come to know of two people who have self published, perhaps there are others as well. At any rate I was hoping some of them could respond to my inquisitive side which is wondering.

Did you try to find an agent for some time beofre self publishing or did you just not want to waste time and jumped right in. Also in the case of you Mark, at what point and under what circumstances did you get an agent.

In a nut shell just how hard is it to get an agent and what can help the process along.

thanks

 

[Mark Robson]

Bob,

Getting an agent is like looking for the proverbial pot at the end of the rainbow. I wrote to about 12 with negative responses from all of them. Some were very nice refusals, but they were refusals nontheless. I was not very patient, so I tried going to London and knocking on a few doors to try to talk to a few - see if I could smooze my way in... that was a dead loss. I couldn't get past the receptionists/secretaries. In the end I gave up.

I eventually gained an agent through the recommendation of one of the senior buyers of a major retail chain. At one of my booksignings, this anonymous chap walked in. I chatted to him. He was impressed enough that he wanted to read some of my work. Having read it, he emailed me and asked if I really wanted to stay self published - I mean what did he think I was going to say? 'Oh yes, I just love all the invoicing, marketing, distribution, packaging etc etc etc'

I bit the guy's hand off! After I'd apologised and given him his hand back, he then approached one of the major publishers on my behalf. When this did not work, he found me an agent instead. Therefore, the agent came to me... an author's dream really! This is by no means an orthodox route, but I've since come to the conclusion that there is no such thing as an orthodox route.

 

[aurelio]

I believe Mark's experience to be more typical than atypical. I have yet to talk to anyone who got an agent by their own direct contact. It has always been either through a mutual connection or the agent discovering them, at least for the people I know personally.

Others in this group have already disagreed with me on this, but short of having an "in" with an agent or publisher, self-publishing at least gives you the opportunity to complete the process of producing a book to a finish. Yes, it has its shortcomings. It is perceived as a kind of ******* child in the literary community, but self-publishing has already helped me progress well beyond where i would be if I were still merely trying to get my manuscript read. It has also helped me creatively move on to new projects rather than stagnate in frustration over a book I could not (or would not have been allowed to) complete.

I hope that, like Mark, my book may do well enough to get noticed, and if approached by a publisher or agent, I'll be pleased as punch to step through their door. If I had an important friend with influence to escort me through the door, I'd have done that. For me, I felt I had to rely on myself, my talents, and my personal effort, and for now - that meant without an agent.

 

[Brian G Turner]

There seems to be a big onus on professionalism within the submissions process. For example, check out these articles on it:

http://www.sfwa.org/writing/faqs.htm

http://www.chronicles-network.net/writers/resources/editors/advice.php

However, I can't help but think that the old adage of "it's not what you know, it's who you know" comes into play - and thus networking around major conferences is possibly a very good idea.

 

[Princess Ivy]

I must say Brian, thats very true, my lecturer is a non-fiction writer. Published, and so is his wife. They have contacts in the publishing industry, and also agents of their own. the upshot is, through no great genius of my own, some of my work, including the outline of my novel has been seen by the eyes of the great agent. i've been given some hints, and told that it will get a look over once its done. No promises mind you, but a definate Maybe.

 

[aurelio]

I agree with the networking idea. I'm just really bad at it myself. Not one of my strengths.

It seems like anything that will make a connection/impression on a publisher is going to get someone a lot farther than just a manuscript submission out of the blue.

Note to Princess Ivey:

That sounds pretty hopeful! I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.

 

[Princess Ivy]

meh, now just to finish writing the darn thing...

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

There's going to be a writer's conference in San Francisco next month, at which they have something called "Speed Dating for Agents," where writers get the opportunity to pitch their books to a great many agents successively. No doubt something similar goes on at other such events in other locations. Don't know how effective this is, and the bigger and more professional conferences tend to be fearfully expensive. Still, it's one way to go about looking for an agent.

For SFF writers I still think large SFF conventions are the way to go if you want to make professional contacts. They are cheaper, more fun, and any professionals you may meet will be working within the genre. There will probably be panels for aspiring writers, and some of those panels on getting published will very likely include actual agents and editors who will TELL you what they are looking for and the best way to present your work. At the very least, you can do some networking that may pay off later in unexpected ways.

 

[Circus Cranium]

I'm going to try for an agent when I finish my next novel; I'm about 40k in. I'm happy with my new scifi publisher, but they're small. It is difficult to land an agent, but if you can score one it opens bigger doors.

 

[Ilumene]

Speed dating for agents.. nice! Having worked for two agencies and got another to pimp me around, my two cents is that you have to be lucky. very lucky. Unless you have a way to get them to notice you outside the normal channels, you've simply got to keep going until one of them pays enough attention when they're reading the slush pile. Don't call to try to talk to them first, certainly don't turn up at the door. My first piece of advice would be, keep your covering letter short and professional or they start thinking 'nutter' before they've even got to the writing. Second, make sure there are no mistakes anywhere even if you have to proofread the whole submission four times.

Just remember, in the UK each decent-sized fantasy publisher (five in total i think) isn't expecting to take on more than 2 new writers a year. When there are at least ten agents who represent fantasy, you've got to do well to justify your place on that list. it simply won't come easily so just keep plugging away!

 

[aurelio]

According to the Bowker Report, there were over 195,000 new books published last year, so if you can imagine the number of manuscripts that were submitted around the globe, it's daunting. With statistics like that, getting an agent and/or a publisher has to be really hard to do. It's a given. Those who manage it are fortunate indeed.

I think any first time novelist has their work cut out for them. The key is to get noticed. Even if you take for granted you have written a wonderful book, no one will know that unless you get read. You need to catch someone's eye.

I chose one alternative solution. I self-published under the theory that the money I spent self-publishing I certainly would have spent mailing manuscript copies and getting rejections. There is also the wait time - are they actually reading it, or is it sitting in a pile somewhere, or in a shredder? - meanwhile, my novel can be available in a finished, bound, and attractive form.

It's easier to get noticed with a finished book than a manuscript. I am able to get reviewed, get blogged, get sold, etc. With a manuscript, you can't really do that. Reviewers won't read a manuscript unless you are about to be published. It's hard to get them to review self-published books, but it can be done. To get an agent or publisher with your first effort is like winning a lottery, statistically speaking. Also, if you self-publish your first one and it gets nicely reviewed, then on your next, you have actual responses to your writing to help get in the door if you decide to submit your second manuscript to an agent or publisher.

My prediction is that self-publishing will continue to grow as an alternative way to "submission" into a bigger publisher. After all, there's a far greater chance of being read when they hear nice things about your book first. It seemed to work out that way for Mark and I have made a few inroads in my quest this way. I have read several articles about self-published books being picked up by bigger publishers. I'm not saying its the only way, or the best way, but what I have enjoyed about this path is that I can keep moving forward. It puts at least some of the control into my own hands.

It also seems like a helpful resource for publishers and agents, because they can troll the net for the gems rather than slogging through stacks of manuscripts in search of them.

And please, before this post is followed up by all the negative aspects of self-publishing, I'm simply offering one opinion on one particular path that I have found personally useful.

Aurelio

 

[Alia]

Has self publishing worked out for you, Aurelio?

 

[aurelio]

I would say yes, although my book is no best seller or anything, and has not provided me with any significant financial benefit yet. It's not been out a full year, so I still hope it will.

The process was tough. It's all up to you when you self publish, even when you do it through a company like AuthorHouse. They had such a turnorver of staff that I rearely dealt with the same person twice. That was pretty horrible, and the erroros were mor numerous because of it. but it wasn't expensive and you get what you pay for.

I had two friends, both of whom have written and edited professionally before, go over my manuscript and help with corrections. They did this for free because they are good friends and I help them out in return.

Had I not gone this route, my manuscript would be still slogging around the publishing world. Maybe it would have been picked up, but probably not, there's no real way of knowing. I'm happy though, because I was able to move on to my next novel without spending all my time worring about trying to get the first one accepted, making contacts, sending manuscript copies, etc. No distractions from my creative process.

With the new novel, with the favorable reactions to the first as a calling card, I'll have a better shot at an agent, so I may go the conventional route on the second.

I have to finish it first, however.

What point are you at, Alia?

 

[Alia]

Still working on the how to improve my writing skills...
I wrote a story, very poorly done, a few years back. I like the ideas I have, but I lack the writing talent. I talked to a close friend and we have made it a joint effort writing the story that's in my head. It's been very interesting and a very long process!!! She doesn't have as much time as I do, nor does she have the same drive, mainly because it's my story and not hers. We both agree it's a good story line, it's just getting it out. I have a ton of notes and binders of information. It has become very involved and I would hate to give it up!
I have looked at Authorhouse, and wondered what the difference is between self publishing and going through a publisher were. I have read Mark's comments on how an author really needs to push their own work and was wondering if I self published my story if this would be the route I should take. I hate rejection and the hassle of waiting, which is likely going to happen with working through a publisher.
Although, I need to finish the story first, then deal with the decision of publishing later... One step at a time.

 

[Brian G Turner]

Actually, I think you're quite right about self-publishing to some degree fulfilling traditional print roles - ebooks always promised much, but rarely delivered - but as mass-marketing fragments, and even the internet itself begins fragmentation into personalised and local forms, I see the development of niche verticals offering real solutions in the future.

In straight talk - ebooks will probably come into their own for fragmented markets, and that means there must certainly be some room in SFF to someday establish small but profitable independent presses based from niche market publishing. The trouble is that we're not there yet. As the mobile device market pushes the internet into new directions, it will certainly be interesting to see how that impacts books and publishing.

And just to add to Kelpie's earlier comment about going to conventions - a few months ago, I knew nothing about conventions. Now I am very much given to the impression that the conventions are populated by people who are the wheels of the SFF industry - and that if you really want to make a place for yourself at the traditional print publishing table, then getting a place in the core fanbase that drives conventions as definitely a place to start.

We have WorldCon coming up this year in Glasgow - it'll be filled with authors. But I expect there will be a number of agents and publishing staff there as well, mixing business and pleasure by touching the mood of the place, what people want, and where they are getting it.

Just 2c.

 

[aurelio]

I need to finish the story first, then deal with the decision of publishing later... One step at a time.

I agree with that, Alia! I think worrying about what to do with one's manuscript until there is one is simply a way to distract oneself from one's writing.

A SUPER GREAT book to read is The Art of Dramat!c Wr!t!ng (yes, the exclamation points are intentional) by Lajos Egri. It really opened my eyes, and I highly recommend it. It covers everything: character, plot, conflict, dialog, etc. If you haven't read it, it is definitely worth a look.

I also took improv classes from a local improv theatre for a couple of years. If you have one in your area that offers classes, I recommend trying this too. No kidding! I found it helped me develop skills in creating dialog that progresses the story, getting across character through dialog and action, constructing scenes from one line or one word, etc. And, when you have to perform what you write, even if you are writing it on the fly in your head as you're doing it, it forces you to keep it entertaining. And it was fun/scary! A good kind of scary.

I think the "talent" of writing is in both the ideas and the ability to to clearly relate them. You say you like your ideas, so now all you need is to find the clearest way to communicate those to others. Like, point of view. Is the story best told by an omniscient observer, or by a participant in your story? I had the idea for my first novel and wrote out the basic outline of it before it dawned on me to write it first person. It was a more interesting way into the story through one particular character's P.O.V. It gave EVE a whole new slant. The one I'm working on now is third person because that better serves the new story.

Anyway, I'm babbling. Best of luck to you in attaining you goals!

Aurelio

 

[Alia]

I will take the advice about the book Aurio, thank you very much! As for the imporv class, I will have to check into that. I haven't heard of it before. I live fairly close to a University and Junior College and I have been thinking about taking a class, but finding the time is hard.
I also believe that practice makes perfect... will I'm hoping at least.

Thank you for your comments Aurio!

 

[aurelio]

My pleasure!

Don't be afraid to try, or to fail and try again. I've known and met a lot of super successful people in my life and it always amazes me how dissimilar each person's path to success was. Some took years of struggle, others hit it big right away. Some traveled the doggedly conventional path, others lucked into success, still others took risks and one eventually paid off. The rule seems to be that there are no rules, so I try to focus on the creative part, the part I want to do the most, and let the chips fall where they may on the rest of it. Believing this helps me to relax about all of it and not worry about making mistakes.

That's how I look at the self-publishing gig. It's working nicely at this moment for me, but that's not to say it's best for anyone else (or will be best for me tomorrow). Everyone needs to determine that for themselves depending on their own personal situations and goals.

Thanks for chatting, Alia.

 

[Alia]

I hate failure. I think I'm starting to perfect the talent of it though, unwillingly of course. Although, it's bound to happen and I will accept it when it comes. May break my heart and I might shed a tear or two. But I am not a quiter, by far. I'll revise, rewrite and retell my story... twice as good!
Anyways... your welcome for the chat! I have enjoyed it and learned much!

 

[Ilumene]

Now I am very much given to the impression that the conventions are populated by people who are the wheels of the SFF industry - and that if you really want to make a place for yourself at the traditional print publishing table, then getting a place in the core fanbase that drives conventions as definitely a place to start.
Just 2c.

As someone who's now got a deal, I would say that getting into that convention-going fanbase and going to events organised by people like the BFS is certainly worthwhile. SFF authors I think are a close (and somewhat closed if you're not part of that fanbase) community and they help each other massively. Because I went down the publishing professional route instead, I'm going to start finding myself something of an outsider to that and both my agent and editor are aware of that. I'm tempted to go to Glasgow just to meet people even though my book won't be published for another six months.