The Greatest Classic Sc Fi Writer – Thesis Question, participation appreciated!

Who is the Greatest Classic Sci Fi Writer?

  • HG Wells

    Votes: 8 26.7%
  • HP Lovecraft

    Votes: 3 10.0%
  • Mary Shelly

    Votes: 1 3.3%
  • John Wyndom

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Isaac Asimov

    Votes: 15 50.0%
  • Hugo Gernsback

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Jules Verne

    Votes: 3 10.0%

  • Total voters
    30

Alienweirdo

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Through discussions on different threads, boards and even forums, i have derived a list of candidates for the crown of 'Greatest Sci Fi Writer'.

This poll is for research, just to help me decide who to research further in my thesis, as well as show my tutors i've done some primary research ;)

If your favourite writer isn't there, sorry! just mention them anyway!

-ian-
 
Okay... You might want to consider this your first defense of your thesis... I'm sorry if the following comes out harsh, but after reading the above poll, I think it's got to be said. If anything, consider it food for thought before you move forward.

I've just GOT to question your list. Not because my favorite writers aren't there, but because the people you HAVE put on the list indicates to me only a perfunctory examination of the genre's history and a lack of understanding when it comes to writers and their contributions to the field. It feels arbitrary, as if based on some pre-conceived notions as to what's what. This sort of absolute declaration of "Greatest SF Writer" only works if your NOMINATION BASE is built from people who are actually considered in the running for such a title. To hint that the above list represents the feeling of even a small minority of sf's readers... That implies a limited amount of research on your part -- not what you want to demonstrate to your tutors. Unless you can provide some information on WHERE you found evidence indicating to you that these people ALL belong on your list... well, it's hard for me to take this seriously. I'm a journalist, man -- I just can't let that slide.

Couple other things before I get to my specific arguments regarding your list.

* By failing to define "Greatest Writer," and "Classic," you game the whole voting process, and make it impossible for anyone to make an educated, informed selection. As a result, it's guaranteed that you'll come up with completely screwed up data for your thesis.

What do you mean by "Greatest"? Is it a writer who had one book that completely changed the genre forever? Is it a writer who had ups and downs, but whose body as a whole helped define the genre? Is it a best selling author? Is it the author who didn't sell much at all, but bucked trends and carved new paths for sf writers to come? Is it a writer who blew all the doors off the genre, but then got lost in the mists of time? Is it a wildly popular writer who still, decades later, still sells like a madman? Impossible to guess, and you're not sayin'.

And "Classic"... What the heck does that MEAN? Do you mean writers who were working before the term "science fiction" was coined? Do you mean writers who produced books during the period of time most often considered sf's "golden age" (i.e., the early- to mid Campbell years)? Do you mean writers whose works have become classics, despite having been written in the Seventies or something? Again, it's SO open ended as to be rendered pointless as a modifier.

Now... the list... I don't see how anyone -- even the most antagonistic, inflamatory, and provocative critics -- would suggest all these people. Many of them barely qualify as science fiction writers -- and at least one barely qualifies as a writer at all!

* Hugo Gernsback. He was a TERRIBLE writer. Most people I've spoken to -- and critics I've read -- acknowledge that his one remembered science fiction novel, Ralph 124C 41+, completely fails to do the genre any favors. Gernsback's importance was as an EDITOR, not a WRITER. And he wasn't even the best editor -- but he did start Amazing Stories, and he did push "scientifiction" -- which he later changed to "science fiction," thereby coining the term by which we know the genre today. Important as a figure, no doubt. But as a writer, I'd say his contributions to the field were negligable, if not outright laughable. (Have you read the book? I don't really suggest it...)

* Mary Shelley. Okay, even acknowledging that Frankenstein is a science fiction book, I still don't think anyone considers it anywhere NEAR the BEST science fiction book. That, plus the fact that it's her ONLY science fiction book (that I know of, though I could be wrong) puts into question her inclusion on this list. Even if Frankenstein was the best book of all time, how can she be considered when perhaps she just got lucky?

Could hers be the FIRST sf book? MAYBE, but it really depends on who you ask -- so even that's not useful in qualifying her for inclusion. (Even more damning, many critics consider her prose only so-so. A great story, but nothing beyond even the average gothics of the time.)

* H.P. Lovecraft. Okay, he's a bit trickier. He did write a lot of science fiction -- anything involving the Old Gods qualifies, more or less, as sf, I think. Not to mention stories like the Color Out Of Space, etc. That said, I don't think anyone could consider him one of the best SCIENCE FICTION writers. One of the best WEIRD TALES writers, definitely. But his stories, while often brilliant and entertaining beyond measure, don't exactly embody the elements that have come to define even classic sf (which was a lot more open, it sometimes seems).

* John WYNDHAM (note the spelling -- you do not want to get that wrong in your thesis). Certainly a great author. But again... I don't know if most people would immediately think of him when considering either the GREATEST writer, or CLASSIC writers. But this gets back to your definition, which is vague enough to leave this question hanging.

* Isaac Asimov. I SORT OF agree that he belongs on your list (but not because of his prose skills, which weren't so great in most cases). The problem is, by listing him, you're opening up the door to a period of time that includes such writers as RAY BRADBURY, ROBERT A. HEINLEIN, and THEODORE STURGEON. Bradbury can perhaps be dismissed -- as much science fiction as he produced, he was more of a fantasy and weird tales writer. But Heinlein? He was a man who literally helped revolutionize the genre, a man who was voted the first SF Grandmaster -- even ahead of Jack Williamson, who'd been writing since the Twenties. He challenged people with his politics and sexual mores, he thrilled people with his adventurous stories, and he continues to inspire authors even today.

And Sturgeon... He was a man who most WRITERS acknowledge as being one of the absolute best, most important authors in the field. If he were operating outside the genre, it's entirely possible that he'd be known as a Great American Author today, like Bradbury, Hemingway, etc. He was stuck in a literary ghetto, though -- even though he seemed perfectly happy to be there.

I'm sorry. I really am. I don't mean to bash your work. I think that it's admirable that you're even delving into science fiction as a thesis topic. I think it's wonderful, and the genre can always use more academic support. But the support only works if it's based on reality -- otherwise, it does the field more harm than good.

Please feel free to prove me wrong, to demonstrate how your list represents exactly who you imply it represents. No joke -- I'd love to hear your arguments in support of your nominees.

Good luck and success in your endeavors!
 
You rotten sod, I'd share the honours equally between the two, but I plumped for Wells because Verne never reduced an entire nation to panic.
 
You rotten sod, I'd share the honours equally between the two, but I plumped for Wells because Verne never reduced an entire nation to panic.

Er, that was Orson Welles. Not HG Wells.

(okay, so it was a radio adaptation of HG Wells... but if the nearest anything gets to panic in Wells' novel is a man appearing "dishevelled" because he'd mislaid his hat...)
 
I think Frankenstein's position as the first SF novel is now widely (although not universally) accepted. Brian Aldiss is the champion of this idea and John Clute, Dave Langford, Grant & Nicholls and quite a few of the other major critics of the genre have picked up on it, so I'm certainly not going to argue with it.

Other writers who should be considered for the list are Arthur C. Clarke and possibly Olaf Stapledon. Heinlein should certainly be on there, maybe Aldiss and Ballard as well.
 
I agree with Dr Atomic. Terrible list. A poll would be completely useless. Define "classic" first, and then ask for suggestions.
 
I think Frankenstein's position as the first SF novel is now widely (although not universally) accepted. Brian Aldiss is the champion of this idea and John Clute, Dave Langford, Grant & Nicholls and quite a few of the other major critics of the genre have picked up on it, so I'm certainly not going to argue with it.

Other writers who should be considered for the list are Arthur C. Clarke and possibly Olaf Stapledon. Heinlein should certainly be on there, maybe Aldiss and Ballard as well.

This may be testament as to the inherit flaws in the poll above because I disagree that the Modern Prometheus should be considered the first novel of the science fiction genre, although I do concede that, at the moment, that is the fashionable declaration within the academic literature circles.

I clicked "H.G Wells" but avoided finalizing my vote because, in the end, I must submit a write-in vote of Philip K. Dick. I hope the author of this thread takes all this as constructive criticism, but I believe the mistake interred in the thought process here is not the poll itself, but a not-yet fleshed-out thesis statement.

Perhaps you could copy us the thesis sentence you wish to include in the introduction paragraph of your paper? We may be able to help you narrow down the thesis into something within a more manageable scope, such as "the most influential modern science fiction writer in alternate reality motifs in the twentieth century...".

In that case, Philip K. Dick would certainly get my vote for Man in the High Castle. ;)
 
Hoo, boy! Where to begin?...

I think Dr. A covered some of my points pretty well. Gernsback should never, ever, EVER be on anyone's list of Great Writers of anything -- period! I do not in any way wish to detract from Gernsback's importance to the field, but he was an absolutely atrocious writer, and even though a bad writer may have an enormous influence on a field through their ideas ... his book did not. (Seriously, the only reasons to ever read that novel is if you are a dyed-in-the-wool sf completist where the period is concerned, or out of academic rigor -- or if you're a serious glutton for punishment. It's a very brief book, but it seems interminable. The man couldn't write his way out of a pay toilet, I believe is the phrase....

One point, though: Mary Shelley has been considered in this position for a long time, by several of the Golden Age writers, as well, including Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke, and others. So it's not just the fashionable thing now. This is an idea that has been pretty current since the 1920s at least. And Asimov's robot stories were in large part (according to his own essays on the subject) a reaction to Frankenstein; not to mention his coining of the term "The Frankenstein Complex" used in many of those stories.... She also wrote The Last Man, a post-apocalyptic novel that is certainly sf, and several short stories and novellas that would qualify for inclusion in the field. Her prose in Frankenstein is indeed a bit wonky -- it was her first novel, written originally when she was in her teens, after all -- but in her later work, her prose is not only eloquent, but elegant and precise' however much it may seem to ramble, it isn't -- like Lovecraft, she's going for an extreme precision in thought and nuance, and she does it quite well. But putting her as the greatest SF writer is simply completely off the beam.

Wells definitely deserves serious consideration, not only because his work continues to sell quite well, entertain, and enlighten even today, but because he remains a strong influence, and for a considerable time set a high-water mark in the field. So a contender, definitely. The same can be said for Verne.

Lovecraft... I am a very intense fan of HPL. I admire him and his work tremendously, and the more I learn of each, the more my appreciation grows. But he was not an sf writer; and he would have seen red had he been termed such. He had contempt (deservedly) for the vast bulk of sf of his time, with only such rare exceptions as Stanley G. Weinbaum (who should certainly be on the list, by the way, being a pre-Campbell Campbell writer -- that is, one who wrote exactly the sort of thing Campbell was trying to initiate -- better science, better writing, and genuine science fiction rather than adventure stories dressed up with pseudoscientific jargon -- before Campbell ever began his revolution). While several things HPL wrote may well be classed as either sf or proto-sf, it is more by accident than anything else.

Asimov. Again, I'm very fond of Isaac; but his style wobbled seriously at times, and while he wrote some of the most important works in the genre, they are neither the best nor the most influential. His vision was individual and unique, and no one really attempted to copy Isaac much; he was seen as a solid writer, a good storyteller, but not an innovator where fiction was concerned; thus he really doesn't belong on the list, either. Wyndham, again, falls somewhat into this category: a damned good writer, a solid storyteller for 30-40 years, wrote classics in the field, but not generally speaking either an innovator, nor a huge influence, nor are his books (for all their excellence) anywhere near the best in the field.

As has been said, Heinlein should definitely be on the list under just about any criteria. His influence on the field, his popularity, the variety of types of tales he wrote (from hard sf to fantasy, humorous to starkly tragic, puritanical to bawdy, etc.) ... all argue for him being there no matter how you define your terms. (This may be a good or a bad thing; some would argue either way, and with some justice on each side.) Clarke was an enormous influence on the field because of the rigor of his science and his ability to convey the sense of being "out there", perhaps more than any writer. Plus, he has had several classics in the field, and a great number of his books have been immensely popular; so he should be on the list.

If we're talking "classic" as in "Golden Age", then C. M. Kornbluth, and the team of Henry Kuttner and C. L. Moore should definitely be on the list; Fritz Leiber should be there, regardless, as his works were not only quite popular, but he was one of the best prose stylists the field ever produced, he was incredibly versatile, won more awards than you can shake a lucas at. Sturgeon should definitely be included, as well. There are many others that are due for consideration in this case.

If we're going beyond the Campbell years, then the number of writers who are due for consideration proliferates enormously. Yes, Dick deserves serious thought here. So does Harlan Ellison who did write sf (though he's primarily a fantasiste -- not of the faux-mediaeval school, but contemporary fantasy or "science fantasy") and has won so many awards you'd need a warehouse for them all; he's also had an enormous influence on the field both through his pyrotechnic, emotionally intense, and immensely popular writing, and for his various projects as editor, including Dangerous Visions and Again, Dangerous Visions, and for his various fights to protect writers rights where their material are concerned. Robert Silverberg deserves strong consideration for being one of the most erudite and eloquent writers in the field; Michael Moorcock for his influence via initiating the New Wave and presenting its malleable template, Jerry Cornelius, as well as promulgating the idea of the multiverse and many of the ideas that are now seen as part of Chaos theory as well, through his various writings; he is both enormously popular, unbelievably prolific, and often quite influential with his ideas and (in his later writing especially) his abilities with the language and in broadening the definition of science fiction.

J. G. Ballard is certainly due for consideration, as well, for his unique, disturbing, and highly artistic tales that have both delighted and influriated people for half a century now. He has been both adored and villified by numerous writers, readers, and editors, and his work is most assuredly among the most literate prose sf has produced; and he's had his imitators, as well.

And that's not even beginning to address a tithe of the writers of the 50s and 60s, let alone tackling those who have come along since!

So, before you go any further, you really do need to define your terms. Set the parameters in your questions (this is what I was addressing in an earlier post to you), because you are leaving this thing so wide open that it may as well not have any boundaries at all! Which is a sure-fire way to end up with muddled thinking and knots that the gods themselves couldn't unwind. So I strongly suggest you sit down, look at what you've got so far, and draw up a plan of what you want to address and how; define your terms; set your parameters (at least initially) on what you wish to cover; and then formulate your questions. Right now, you're producing nothing but the foggiest of conceptions, if the open-endedness of these questions is any indication, and you're going to end up spinning your wheels indefinitely, and find that you've got nowhere at all.

As Dr. A said, the field can always use more academic support, but it really doesn't help if it's not done with the same care and attention that one would expect from an academic thesis on any other branch of or figure in literature.
 
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I have to go with lovecraft, because he just scares the crap out of me.

I would however, be interested in reading your specific thesis statement.
 
Sorry, I agree with Dr Atomic.
I would have voted for Heinlein, as edging everyone else, but I can't if he's not on the list.

Gernsback?! Have you tried to read Gernsback??:eek:
Through discussions on different threads, boards and even forums, i have derived a list of candidates for the crown of 'Greatest Sci Fi Writer'.

Perhaps you should have discussed your list on the best one (ie here!) before asking for a poll!
 
I voted for Asimov, him being my favorite to read and giving me the most food for thought. I also vaguely remember a person called David "Lucky" Starr from my childhood, reading his books :)
 
I voted for Asimov, him being my favorite to read and giving me the most food for thought. I also vaguely remember a person called David "Lucky" Starr from my childhood, reading his books :)

Now, Joel... that's just downright cruel!:p
 
Yep. Both Thadlerian and I brought Sir Arthur up. So that's three mentioning that particular omission...
 
If it's not a stupid question, why actually bother writing a thesis on a "classic" science fiction so well known he (or she) might deserve the epithet "greatest"? It would be well-travelled ground.

Why not study someone less well know. Or perhaps someone who was very popular during their time, but has since disappeared into (relative) obscurity? Recently, I've been dipping into The Space Opera Renaissance, edited by Hartwell & Cramer, and there are plenty of names to conjure with in there... such as Edmond Hamilton, or Ross Rocklynne...
 
Mary Shelley and LonelyGirl15

Hoo, boy! Where to begin?...

One point, though: Mary Shelley has been considered in this position for a long time, by several of the Golden Age writers, as well, including Asimov, Heinlein, Clarke, and others. So it's not just the fashionable thing now.

It is fashionable in the sense that, recently, lists of the top hundred greatest science writers have been popping up in academic circles that also include notations of Mary Shelley being widely regarded by many critics as the first science fiction writer. For one, the vagueness of "regarded by many critics" should really have made more people do a little more research before subscribing to it as fact. It is also fashionable in the sense that these lists have lead the public into believing yet another, and excuse the inherit sexism of the following phrase, old wive's tale. I certainly never learned Mary Shelley was the first science fiction writer in my "Dawn of Modern Europe" class. Sure, it is no lofty source like wikipedia, but I like to still lend it some merit. ;)

The very lists often associated with the Mary Shelley claim are unbelievably ethnocentric, which should have been a second clue for others to question it. What about Comical History of the States and Empires of the Moon published by Cyrano de Bergerac in 1657? What about Entretien sur la Pluralité des Mondes penned by Bernard Le Bovier de Fontenelle in 1686? I don't even need to leave the European scene to site more examples. How about the Polish science fiction movement? In 1785, Michal Dymitir Krajewski wrote a novel about his character named Pole and his ascent to a fantastic moon? In fact, he was the author cited in the class I previously stated. All the examples above predate the 1818 publication of Frankenstein.

What other examples are out there? I would venture other cultures have examples that also predate Mary Shelley.

Not only is the claim that Mary Shelly offered the literary scene the first example of science fiction incredibly debatable, but it is even historically misleading and inaccurate.
 
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If you want to get picky, the earliest sf work is still English. It's Thomas More, Utopia, 1515 :)

The Shelley First position is followed by Brian Aldiss, among others. He documents it in his Billion Year Spree (and Trillion Year Spree), a well-regarded work of sf criticism. Personally, I don't agree with him, but certainly Shelley's novel was rationalist where earlier works were fantastic... which arguably makes Frankenstein closer to the science fiction tradition than Bergerac et al.
 
Ten Percent of the Brain Debates Endlessly Over the Definition of Science Fiction

If you want to get picky, the earliest sf work is still English. It's Thomas More, Utopia, 1515 :)

The Shelley First position is followed by Brian Aldiss, among others. He documents it in his Billion Year Spree (and Trillion Year Spree), a well-regarded work of sf criticism. Personally, I don't agree with him, but certainly Shelley's novel was rationalist where earlier works were fantastic... which arguably makes Frankenstein closer to the science fiction tradition than Bergerac et al.


See? There you go; yet another example that predates Shelley. I have a feeling that the words of Aldiss and other critics are being misused by others to plug her into the "first science fiction author" title. Somehow, I also get the feeling that there are narrower criteria involved in their proclamation for Shelley than is being actively recited by others. It is like the misunderstanding around the "fact" that humans only use ten percent of the brain. The mishap was not rooted from bad science, but bad reporting and the willingness of the public to gloss over far too much of the original statements in exchange for a nice piece of trivia. That is, of course, if we are to have facts turn to ash because of groups of contemporary literary critics and authors have chosen to go a different route. I admit, it certainly makes for a clever name-dropping game. :)

I am completely on board with the assuration that Shelley, with the correct prescribed criteria, is a foreparent of certain modern science fiction forms, and this, ironically enough, bends back to the original issue towards the thread's thesis. The only question more subjective than "Who penned the first science fiction literature?" is "Who is the greatest science fiction writer?".
 
I'd be interested to know who is the most popular SF/F author in terms of books actually sold, though.:confused:
 
I'd be interested to know who is the most popular SF/F author in terms of books actually sold, though.:confused:

That is an interesting way to go. I wish I could answer your question but, even with a quick google and msn search, I was not able to pin down a definitive author and sales figures.

But your question got me thinking....maybe one way to reform "the greatest science fiction writer" question into something measurable is by reassigning it as the "most recognized science fiction author by Hugo Awards." In that case, Connie Willis should be the focus of the paper, right? She has earned more Hugo awards than any other writer (information taken from page 579 of 1994 Bantam paperback edition of Doomsday Book).

Or, maybe, it would be interesting to explore why some science fiction writers have won both Hugo and Nebula Awards while others are awarded only the former.
 

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