New ADWD Chapter revealed!

[Werthead]

At the Boston fantasy convention this past weekend (Boskone) GRRM read out what appears to be the last 'new' chapter from ADWD that will be unveiled before the book is published (although he may change his mind). It features an interesting battle sequence of the sort which a lot of people seemed to be noting was missing from AFFC. A summary of the chapter can be found through this link.

I think some people who haven't kept up-to-date on the POV Cast List for ADWD may be surprised at who the POV is in this chapter. It's someone you may not have been expecting to see so soon after AFFC...

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Cheers Wert. Very interesting and no, I wasn't expecting her back so soon. I suppose George did say ADwD would feature the North among other places but I didn't think we would start off there. That must make the 'North' section of a ADwD a few months later than the relevant section in AFfC.

Thanks again! I don't suppose Regina remembers who else the Northmen force was composed of? Glover retainers obviously but you'd need more than just them.

 

[Werthead]

Spoiler: highlight to read.

Spoiler

The Northmen don't use horns, but interestingly, the wildlings and southron forces (such as those who came north with Stannis) do...

 

[Dolorous Edd]

Spoiler: highlight to read.

Spoiler

The Northmen don't use horns, but interestingly, the wildlings and southron forces (such as those who came north with Stannis) do...

Spoiler

Don't you mean trumpets? As the northmen most certainly do use horns. Remember the whispering woods!

 

[Werthead]

Whoops. Yep. Other way around.

Spoiler

Asha also has an image in her mind of a stag wreathed in flame as she falls, and GRRM later confirmed that indeed it was Stannis' forces arriving at the engagement.

 

[Aegon the Unworthy]

Thanks for the link Werthead

 

[TK-421]

Tsk, Tsk, Tsk...Werthead our fountain of GRRM insider information forgets that GRRM did say to expect an Asha POV in ADWD (as well as an Arya POV, a "returning POV" and a "new POV").

Asha can therefore NOT be the "returning POV" and there seemed to be some agreement that it was Theon. Although I still think that the return of Sansa after being Alayne for a while is another possibility. GRRM did rule out Catelyn as the only other POV that could "return" as she is Stoneheart now.

But, Asha, "vivid sex scene".............sounds vivid indeed....

 

[Werthead]

Actually, I was merely being circumspect as there's a few newcomers around who may not have seen the full POV cast list that was published before. But yes, Theon is supposed to be a POV, but if this spoiler chapter is correct he can't be in much of the book (George confirmed at the reading that this chapter takes place pretty late in the day in ADWD) and he is the 'unexected' returning POV, whilst Asha and Arya are the 'expected' returning POVs. None of this has any bearing on the 'new' POV either (the favourite is still Quentyn Martell or Jorah Mormont).

 

[TK-421]

Actually, I was merely being circumspect as there's a few newcomers around who may not have seen the full POV cast list that was published before.

None of this has any bearing on the 'new' POV either (the favourite is still Quentyn Martell or Jorah Mormont).

Yes, well, you are right of course.


As to the "new" POV, Quentyn seems to be everyone's favourite, although Jorah might be more interesting. I still want either Varys or Sandor (although the later is unlikely).

Didn't GRRM also say that there would be a POV from Dorne included in ADWD? I wonder if that would be a Doran or Arianne POV? Or could it be Myrcella or Darkstar?

 

[Thoheeks Bili]

Forgive a newbie for asking..................... What is POV standing for?

Sorry for having to ask and all but someone once told me that " the only dumb question is , ........one left unasked".


My Axe.............quickly!

 

[TK-421]

POV=Point of View as in the way GRRM writes his books from different character's point of view.

 

[Thoheeks Bili]

Oh, i see now. I just always considered each chapter as belonging to that character, but yes, he writes it as if he were that specific character and how they see things.

Thanks for the explanation!

My Axe.........quickly!

 

[Werthead]

Yes, well, you are right of course.


As to the "new" POV, Quentyn seems to be everyone's favourite, although Jorah might be more interesting. I still want either Varys or Sandor (although the later is unlikely).

Didn't GRRM also say that there would be a POV from Dorne included in ADWD? I wonder if that would be a Doran or Arianne POV? Or could it be Myrcella or Darkstar?

A POV from Dorne, not in Dorne. Thus Quentyn fits the bill. And he never said that directly. What he said was that he had 5 Dorne chapters for the pre-split book and only 4 of them appeared in AFFC (IIRC), so he's one short. However, the new POV is supposedly a 'proper' new POV like Brienne or Cersei, so they should have more than one chapter. He may also have scrapped the missing chapter, edited it into the other AFFC chapters or something else.

He has also specifically said that there will never, ever be a POV from Varys, Littlefinger or Howland Reed.

 

[Boaz]

Two things.

Is POV the correct terminology? I'm not a writer and it's been about thirty years since I've studied grammar in school, so if I get this wrong, please feel free to correct me. Martin writes in the third person past tense, he does not write in the first person present tense. For example, in the first chapter of AFFC, The Prophet, Martin writes, The prophet was drowning men on Great Wyk when they cam to tell him that the king was dead. Iirc, first person past tense would be something like, I was drowning men on Great Wyk when they came to tell me that the king was dead. And to put this in the first person present tense, As I drown men on Great Wyk, I hear them tell me the king is dead.

I've looked on point of view - Definitions from Dictionary.com
for point of view... and here's the results.

View results from: Dictionary | Thesaurus | Encyclopedia | All Reference | the Web
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
point of view –noun 1.a specified or stated manner of consideration or appraisal; standpoint: from the point of view of a doctor. 2.an opinion, attitude, or judgment: He refuses to change his point of view in the matter. 3.the position of the narrator in relation to the story, as indicated by the narrator's outlook from which the events are depicted and by the attitude toward the characters.
[Origin: 1720–30

]


Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source point of view
n. pl. points of view

1. A manner of viewing things; an attitude.
2. 1. A position from which something is observed or considered; a standpoint.
   2. The attitude or outlook of a narrator or character in a piece of literature, a movie, or another art form.

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.WordNet - Cite This Source point of view
noun1. a mental position from which things are viewed; "we should consider this problem from the viewpoint of the Russians"; "teaching history gave him a special point of view toward current events" 2. the spatial property of the position from which something is observed
WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton UniversityAmerican Heritage Dictionary of Idioms - Cite This Source

point of view An attitude or standpoint, how one sees or thinks of something. For example, From the manufacturer's point of view, the critical issue is cost. This expression, originally alluding to one's vantage point in seeing a building or painting or other object, dates from the early 1700s.

The American Heritage® Dictionary of Idioms by Christine Ammer.
Copyright © 1997 by The Christine Ammer 1992 Trust. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company.

Does this mean that point of view neccessarily means first person? I'm undecided. Yes, I'm probably just arguing semantics, but someone convince me either way.

Looks like Wert just posted... well, I'll keep going here.

Second, I don't know that I want to see a Jorah POV (yes, I'll use the term). I like him being revealed through Dany. I've grown accustomed to certain characters from their own POV or through other's POVs. For example, I love Tyrion's POVs and while I do catch glimpses of him from other POVs (Catelyn, Jon, and Sansa) I really feel that Tyrion comes well and whole in his own POVs. Sticking with the Lannister siblings, I liked the way Martin brought Jaime into his own POV. Catelyn's interrogation of Jaime really set him up well to start giving us the story with him as the main character. As for the final Lannister sibling, I have not enjoyed her POV nearly as much as her brothers'. Cersei was well played out through Ned's, Sansa's and Tyrion's POVs. I liked seeing only facets of her, she remained more mysterious in my opinion. Now she's been shown to be a paper tiger. So all that to say that I'd like Jorah to remain a non-POV. I like watching him through other's eyes.

In addition to Jorah, I hope Sandor, Rickon, Stannis, Melissandre, Euron, Varys, Illyrio, Loras, Margaery, Brynden, Littlefinger, Mance, Lyn Corbray, and Darkstar do not get their own POVs. They are too interesting and mysterious to become familiar with. A little bit (actually, a lot to me) of enigma is good.

On the other hand, Quentyn, Podrick, Daario, Tysha, Bronn, Osha, Ramsay, and Lynesse seem like POVs with a lot of potential to advance the story and continue to give good insight on the activities of the primary players.

 

[Commonmind]

It's really not that complicated. Martin writes in a limited third-person point of view throughout each particular chapter; his entire work, each book, is written in an omniscient point of view. The argument of tenses is rather moot; people often confuse themselves with points-of-view and tenses and start making up their own sub-categories to make sense of a particular writing style.

 

[Koopa]

I haver just (well not so long ago) reread all the books, but from pov to pov, first whole Jon, then whole Arya and so on, and if you want you could make a perfect read/book with only that pov, you dont need the info during the other piv, though it does gives you more background info.