How to write EPIC

[Hilarious Joke]

Hey everyone!

So this is my first post on this forum, and I have to say i'm a little bit excited. Irrational? Don't you know it.

I love writing and I love reading fantasy, but I have real trouble writing fantasy because I don't know how to approach writing an epic storyline. Most of my writing (recently anyway) has in fact been more of a collection of moments rather than a story with a significant, interesting, well-constructed and EPIC plot. I would dearly love to write this way, and feel inspired to (especially after recently finishing 'Forest Mage' by Robin Hobb), so yeah guys and dolls any advice you could give me would be MUCHLY appreciated.

Also: great set of forums!

HJ.

 

[Talysia]

Welcome, Hilarious Joke!

Writing epic is something I haven't actually set out to try, but it seems like it may be heading that way at the moment (and by epic, I mean a long story. It feels like I've been writing for ages!) All I can suggest to do regarding the disjointed situations/storylines you've got is to try and find some kind of link between them, or a different, minor set of side-events, and write about it. That way you might be able to build up your story because of these lesser events and make the big events seem more epic.

I'm not an expert - I just enjoy writing - but no doubt you'll find lots of tips here that could help you.

Good to see another aspiring writer!

 

[torontophil]

Welcome!

As Talysia said, try to find links. If you are just starting out, maybe go slow at first. Try to get some longer short stories done before you try and tackle an epic or anything too lengthy. If you do choose to try a longer epic - remember that the story events have to remain interesting throughout, and the characters need to be ones an audience will want to continue reading about.

Cheers,

 

[Sapheron]

Try to build it up from the bottom, as is said above. I started at school (max 2000 words, sadly). After that I've built up, and each piece I write is longer and easier than the last.

Also, read plots that are as epic as you want to get an idea how other people do it.

 

[Curt Chiarelli]

Greetings and Salutations H.J.:

Welcome to the doom that is the Chronic, noble Sir. Prithee find a small sampler of epic proportions below:

GUARD I: My Lord, Elmer, son of Elastomer, Grand Duke of Urethane, Thegn of Spam and the Viscount of Naughahide, the one they call "The Fudd", has come unto thee bearing bold tidings!

PRIEST: Tithings? Did someone say "tithings"?

KING: Silence and begone shaman! Long has Fudd's shadow darkened my kingdom, long has his been a name accursed in this honourable house!

GUARD II: Sire, the doom of our time hath visited itself upon this fair kingdom! A ravening horde of giant killer wombats have breached the outer Shallows wall near the Shoppe of Weemling, the Narco-Peddler!

GUARD III: Great Weeping Tsathoggua! Alack and alas! All is lost!

(Hysteria breaks out in court as men in tight, revealing pants begin to weep tenderly in each others arms.)

KING: Silence! Bring me my sword! Long has she been sheathed and garlanded in peace, but now, brazen, she will visit her wrath upon heads of the invaders in war! Aye, a cold mistress to be certain, but warm enough in the heat of battle! To war! We shall send these fell beasts - the enemy of the halls of my fathers before me - back to the Hell from which they came!

 

[Pyan]

Wow, Curt! Close my ears, and it could be JRRT himself!

Welcome, HJ!

This is a sample of what you're joining - are you sure you want to go on?

 

[Allegra]

LOL Curt, it sounds to me more like the parody 'epic' of discworld!

Yes, Welcome, HJ!

 

[j d worthington]

I'll toss in my 2c here: Don't try for epic. Just don't go there. Not until you've had plenty of practice with getting all the other aspects of writing down. If you can't do shorter works, with solid characterization, good storytelling, engaging writing, etc., then epic is something to stay avoid like a thwacked hornets' nest.

It would be much, much better to hone your abilities as a storyteller/writer with shorter works, set yourself limits, learn how to work within those limits, and then, once you've learned how to structure a story at different lengths, you're more likely to be able to plot out an epic work to a certain length, know how to pace, how to vary from scene to scene, character to character and yet keep the forward momentum going, and build whatever size tale you want... because you'll be more likely to understand the strengths and limitations of whatever type of story you wish to tell. But trying for epic to start with is a sure-fire way to end up with something that's bloated, top-heavy, and awkward as the dickens. And avoid "olde English" unless you know what the hell you're doing. With someone who truly knows the language, and has soaked up enough literature of an earlier day, they can do such and it sounds right. Far too many people try to use an antiquated style who don't know the first thing about how those sentences were structured, nor about the nuances of the language, and it comes off about as well as a stage Indian in a 1920s melodrama. So use archaism sparingly, if at all, unless you really know how to use that idiom well.

Those are my suggestions. Epic isn't something you start with -- it's something you gradually work toward ... unless you're an extremely rare bird; I've not run across a writer yet who began with such a thing and have it work at all well. That's like trying to go from a lifetime of sedentary behavior to running across Europe in one step. Take it slow, and you'll get there, if it's in you. If not, you may find that working on shorter, more intense things gives you more fulfillment and satisfaction.

And last: always tailor your story length to what the story demands. A story has its own internal logic, and that will dictate length. If you try to force it below that, it feels cramped; above, it's bloated as a three-day corpse, and about as pleasing. So ... let the story be your guide, and go from there....

 

[Culhwch]

All good advice, JD. It's a pity I've so far ignored all of it... Well, not entirely. I've tried my hand at short fiction, but I'm just not that great at it. My ideas tend to want to be on a bigger scale, by and large. They get a lot longer on the page than they seem in my head. Having said that, I've never sat down and thought, I'm going to write an epic. My current project is heading that way, by the looks of it, but when I first envisaged it it was going to be a short, one-off, fantasy actioner. On paper, it found some scope. Whether it ends up being succesful or not (and by successful I mean working on the page, not getting published or any such thing), only time will tell.

 

[Chrystelia]

Welcome to the chronics, hj.

I have no tips for you, just write what comes into your head and see how it goes from there.

Just imagine if all the aspiring writers on here get published, wonder how many epics...

I'll give a prize to anyone who manage to finish the first book of their epic before me.

Just trying to motivate myself here.

 

[j d worthington]

Cul: Nothing wrong with doing a novel, or even an epic -- if it comes naturally; if the story demands it from its own internal structure and logic. But determining first "I'm going to write an epic" ... that, to my knowledge, has produced nothing but garbage books, at least until you've become a well-salted writer. Then you have the tools honed, and you know how to use them.

Otherwise... just go with whatever length the story itself requires, as you're learning, and practice staying within different lengths, if you can. Mainly, though, let the story be your guide.

 

[Green]

I don't particularly think that one type of fiction is universally more difficult than another - it depends entirely on the writer. I would struggle to write short YA, but I can better see how an epic is done, because that's my favourite genre. I struggle with short stories. For me they're not easier, they just take less time because of their length.

Pacing and tension and infodumping and all that can be learned along the way. I've become about a hundred times better at these things since I started writing my novel, and as long as you're prepared to go back and rehash the crap, it's all good experience (it's bad if you never get round to the rehashing ).

Having said all that, I agree completely that you shouldn't force something. If you have an idea, write it the way it needs to be written.

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Thanks a bundle everyone!

Talysia: Interesting advice! Do you recommend maybe writing a few short stories set in the same world; or developing some characters, and then possibly trying to find links?

Torontophil: Same question?

Sapheron: Thanks for posting! Do you have a particular idea of the ultimate epic plot? Other than the typical LOTR.

Curt: High commendations on a thoroughly enjoyable piece; I offer many thanks for sharing this delightful foray into a small slice of epicness with us here, at this ancient forum of thoughts and intellectual discussion. Fare well, good sir!

Pyanfuruk: Thanks for the welcome! Do I want to go on? Random bits of hilarious writing intermixed with serious and helpful advice? Does a bear defecate in the woods?!

Allegra: Love the discworld. Thanks for your post.

J.D.: Don't let anyone fool you, two cents is worth a lot. I found your post really helpful and it made sense to me. I think you're right, I do have to work on my storytelling in shorter works before I build up to an epic plot.

*Motivates Cul*

Green: Did that novel involve much planning or did you evolve your world as you wrote?

I will say between these forums (this thread especially) and the creative writing course I am doing at uni, I feel very inspired to write; even if an epic may be a long way down the track.

Ride the walrus!

HJ.

 

[Pyan]

Like the avvie, HJ - have you seen this one?

 

[Green]

HJ, as for my novel... well, you'll have to take my advice with a pinch of salt I'm not finished yet (I'm about three quarters done, at about 120k words or so) and it might not even be classed as epic (though it's felt that way in the making), but I'm getting closer all the time.

I did a bit of planning before I started writing, but not much. The first idea I had was a scene towards the end, and then the prologue came from that. Everything else was done all in bits and pieces - new ideas for scenes came, and I started thinking of the history, and at the same time I started doing the actual writing, and plotting it out in my head, etc. etc.

So yeah, don't worry too much if you don't have a solid plan beforehand, just start to write when you feel you're ready. You can always go back and change things later on.

If you're anything like me, parts will come when they come. I always have anchor points - scenes or parts of scenes that I need to get from and to, and these keep me on track. I get a huge sense of achievement when I finish writing one of these anchor points.