Harry's death foreshadowed in Book 1?

[Thor_Doomhammer]

Could Harry's death at Voldemort's hand have been foreshadowed in Book 1?

On page 260 of SS, right after Harry has come back from the Forbidden Forest, he is discussing with Ron and Hermoine his experience. He is telling them about his discussions with the centaurs, in particular Firenze's arguement with Bane.

About halfway down the page, Harry says, "Bane thinks Firenze should have let Voldemort kill me....I suppose that's written in the stars as well."

What if the fact that Voldemort is supposed to kill Harry was indeed written in the stars? McGonagal says that divination is the most imprecise branch of magic, and it seems reasonable that even diviners such as centaurs could have mixed up what the stars were saying, getting the date of Harry's death wrong by 5 or 6 years. This would explain why Bane was so mad; he saw Harry's death at Voldemort's hand in the stars and believed that Firenze had just tampered with the willings of fate, when the stars really said that Voldemort would kill Harry in 5 or 6 more years.

Of course, this is not concrete, but since Rowling rarely gives us concrete evidence, I believe it is a plausible theory.

 

[Commonmind]

Though it's definitely plausible, you have to consider the source. Harry's the one making the comment - in a speculating manner, as if to say the reason Bane made the statement might have been because it was written in the stars. That's not to say that it was, but only that Harry was remarking on their particular breed's mentality and may be taking a stab at it. If the Centaurs are forbidden to meddle in the fates of men, it would be considered taboo for Firenze to have helped Harry, despite his death being foreseen or not.

We can't rule it out, although it would definitely have been more concrete if it had come from one of the Centaurs.

 

[Thor_Doomhammer]

This is true. Since it is Harry's own speculation, we don't know for sure that this is what the centaurs are talking about.

But....

Bane does say, shortly after Firenze rescues Harry, "Remember, Firenze, we are sworn not to set ourselves against the heavens. Have we not read what is to come in the movements of the planets?"

 

[Commonmind]

It's a safe assumption that he could also be referring to the impending duel between Harry and Voldermort, and not necessarily Harry's death. If there was a duel written in the heavens, it's likely Bane would have been upset by Firenze's interference; for two reasons: it could mean Harry is destined to die, or it could mean he's destined to destroy Voldermort. Despite Bane's aggressive manner, I'm sure he also wants Voldermort dead, and Firenze getting in the way of the duel that would bring about that outcome would be an upsetting turn of events.

 

[Erin99]

Could Harry's death at Voldemort's hand have been foreshadowed in Book 1?

Well, since I got PM-ed, I thought I'd join this thread! Mind you, I'm a bit stuck with my own writing ATM, so a short break is welcome!

Anyway, just to add my opinion, I've never really seen that as direct forshadowing; rather the bit about not interfering in the events predestined struck me as the bit to remember. I always thought it meant Harry needed to live, learn to fight his own battles, and use these experiences to aid him, rather than have a centaur rescue him, thus not giving Harry any chance to learn.

So I think Bane was helping him, in a sense.

 

[Majimaune]

I have never thought of that part of the book meaning anything big. But now I see it could be quite a big part that is easily overlooked. JK made it so that it was easily overlooked maybe.

 

[Joel007]

Well, after the excitement winds down, the characters are just chatting on their way to their next adventure, is the perfect time to slip in an innocuous phrase which won't be noticed until someone has finished the series.

 

[Majimaune]

Yes yes. But now it has been noticed.

 

[Rane Longfox]

Then again, it could just be a random comment used as page-filler. And it was pretty obvious that Harry was gonna die even from book one, chapter one

 

[Majimaune]

Then again, it could just be a random comment used as page-filler. And it was pretty obvious that Harry was gonna die even from book one, chapter one

It could have just been a page filler.

I dont think it was obvious as you put it that Harry was gonna die. It was likely that he was going to die but not obvious in my opinion.

 

[Rane Longfox]

Well, maybe thats just the cynical streak in me, but I remember thinking about a quarter of the way through the first book, once most of the stuff had been explained - This guy is gonna die in the last book, I'm certain.

Well, probably not those exact words But there was never any other way for it to end satisfactorily.

 

[Lenny]

I can see the last chapter being called "The Boy who Died". And it'll probably be a whole chapter of characters mourning, and people telling each other of plans to rebuild, and relationships with Muggles that are going to get stronger.

I'd even put some money on Harry dying in the penultimate chapter.

 

[Majimaune]

I would have to agree with you Lenny so I cant take up that money thingy. It will all end happy no matter what happens to Harry.

 

[Lenny]

And the problem is, it'll be following tradition, if you will, for Harry to die in the last chapter.

Book 1 - Professor Quirrel died in the penultimate chapter
Book 4 - Cedric
Book 5 - Siruis
Book 6 - Dumbledore

Book 2 - Harry defeats Riddle
Book 3 - All the business is the Shrieking Shack

Correct me if I'm wrong, but all of these things happen in the penultimate chapter (or thereabouts), with some kind of happyish ending in the last chapters.

 

[Rane Longfox]

Oh god, I hope it's not a sickeningly happy ending. Sure, kill Voldemort, but please let there be some kind of not horribly happy ending!

 

[Lenny]

I reckon it'll be something like the ending to Book 6, in the way that there'll be mourning for characters who have died, and then the talk of rebuilding.

And whoever it is who is directing film 7 will have an absolute field day with it, you know they will. The ending of the film will be as bad as the ending of the first two.

Now it could be all of these things that we've been mentioning, or we're all suffering from lack of sleep because it's three in the morning.

And on that note I'm off to bed. Toodles, chaps.

 

[Majimaune]

Yes everything will happen in the penultimate chapter then a 'happy' ending.

Oh and its not three in the morning. Its 12:35 PM.

 

[Commonmind]

 

[Rane Longfox]

Hahaha, commonmind, if only we had the reputation system enabled on these boards, that gets you a whole heap of posi-rep


I just realised most people probably don't have a clue what I'm talking about....

 

[Commonmind]

No rep points needed, I'm just glad somebody got it.