Thoughts on Jacob

[Ian8781]

People at my work had a loooooooooooooooong chat about Jacob. Here's what we came up with.

The island is definitely a "waiting room for the dead" before they go to heaven or hell. It helps the dead to accept their death before entering their new home for eternity - whichever it may be.

God and Satan are infact one being - each struggling for power. It would appear that Satan is currently winning this battle. Jacob is the name given to the God/Satan being who can manifest himself in various ways. (God can appear as Jack's Father, Kate's Horse, Walt, - infact all the visions experienced on the island. Satan chooses to represent himself as the black smoke monster).

Satan gives instructions to Ben by appearing to him as Jacob. While this is happening, Satan is surpressing the entity of God. The words "Help Me" heard by Locke are in fact those of God, in a desperate plea to be released from the Devil's power. Satan gave Ben instructions to kill Locke, becuase he is afraid that Locke might just be able to help God free himself.


Alright - the theory is a little far fetched, but so far seems to fit the facts. I would be very interested in your opinons.

 

[TK-421]

A sort of purgatory...

Interesting theory. Compared to some of the others I have heard or read, as plausible as the one that say's it's all going on in Hurley's head.

I personally, have no clue at this piont. This whole introduction of the "magic box" and Jacob have thrown me for a loop.

 

[Carolyn Hill]

I'm leaning more toward the theory that Jacob is an entity that people have treated as a god in the past but isn't really a god. Somehow, people's thoughts/spirits shape him. "Good" people like Locke have an affinity for the island because Jacob wants to be shaped by them. The Others (who predate Ben on the island--coming from the pirate ship, in part) shape Jacob for "bad" stuff, which is why Jacob asks Locke to "help me." Ben wants Locke to kill so that Locke will be "bad" too.

To tell you the truth, I just don't want the island to be purgatory and the whole story to turn out to be heaven versus hell. That's too . . . done before.

 

[TK-421]

Sorry to burst you bubble Ian8781, but if you watched the special recap of all the secrets revealed so far hosted by the show's Producers: Carson Cuse and Damon Lindehoff that aired last night on ABC, your theory was put aside.

Here's what they said: "There is a theory that the characters are in some sort of purgatory but we have both said that they aren't and they are very much alive and breathing and somewhere in the space-time continuum."

 

[Steve Jordan]

Jacob doesn't exist. He is, in fact, an invention of Ben's, used to keep others in line. This goes in keeping with the level of lies and deceit that are Ben's chief method of control over the others.

Ben used the magician's best tricks, suggesting a seeming impossibility, then distracting the audience with noise and pyrotechnics before they learn the truth... and like that, you are distant from the illusion, and the event is over. If Locke had had the sense to go back in there and look for the strings, he would have found them (which, unfortunately, shows how gullible Locke has always proven to be).

 

[Dave]

If the voice Locke heard was Jacob then Jacob does exist (whether the flying objects were created by Ben or not.)

I like your theory and it is practically the same as the one I had come to myself. I don't care what Carson Cuse and Damon Lindehoff say unless it appears in an episode. And even if it is not a higher plane of Hell, there is some religious significance to the Island. Just look at all the religious symbolism they use in the show.

Jacob is either Satan or he is the Island itself.

 

[TK-421]

Satan? I thought Satan didn't exist. Anyways, he may be the Island itself trying to communicate with the one person left alive who is "in tune" with it. But, why did it allow Eko to be killed if he was also "in tune" with the Island. Unless Eko actually learned something that Locke has not. There has to be a significance to his death. Another possibility is that Ben could be the one person the Island - Jacob - believes he can best manipulate or control.

 

[Steve Jordan]

The only thing Eko's death proved is that sometimes, the brave, the intelligent, the redeemed, the good, die anyway. Just as in life.

But if you want, you can consider it a sign that Eko's efforts had simply not been enough to redeem him in the eyes of "the island."

I think Lost's overall plot is more of a socio-political allegory than a religious one (see this thread). From that basis, Eko might represent the embodiment of the Third World: Large and powerful, thrust unwillingly into the intrigues of the rest of the world (the Survivors and the Others), and trusting in Divine Providence to lead him to salvation... but ultimately destroyed by forces beyond his control, forces that may even have been unleashed by the conflict between the Survivors and the Others.

But we were talking about Jacob...

Jacob may have existed once (though we saw no evidence of him in Ben's backstory, did we?). Now Ben invokes Jacob's spirit to keep the others in line, much as a present-day leader invokes the spirit (and speeches) of past leaders to keep his followers on the right path. Here there are parallels with Soviet revisionist history, as leaders attributed their forefathers with words and actions that, in fact, were not theirs, but invented by a propaganda machine for the leadership's benefit.

 

[Dave]

So, who's voice did Locke hear in Jacob's house, if not Jacob?

I could easily believe that Ben set up the noise and pyrotechnics in a magician's trick as you described. That would not be beyond Ben and would fit everything we have seen about him.

The voice was not part of his plan. Ben did not hear it and begged John to tell him what he had heard. That part was obviously genuine.

Even if there is no "Jacob", or if he has died, left, or whatever, then there is still this disembodied voice, a voice heard in 'Jacob's House' and therefore we might as well call it Jacob.

 

[Steve Jordan]

The voice was not part of his plan. Ben did not hear it and begged John to tell him what he had heard. That part was obviously genuine.

Again, Ben is an accomplished liar and showman, so I don't buy this 100% either. Although, I suppose there's the possibility that Locke, desperate to believe, allowed his mind to "invent" the voice.

So maybe there once was a Jacob, and Ben is simply pretending his spirit is still there.

 

[Atlantean]

How does that explain the flash forwards ?

 

[Steve Jordan]

The only thing we know for sure from the flash-forwards is that Jack regrets something that happened on the island, and that he wishes he could go back to change or fix it. We do not have enough information to even guess at what he regrets, or what he would do to change things... and for that matter, we don't even know for sure who is worse off because of whatever happened. Ultimately, the flash-forward tells us nothing besides the fact that Jack is unhappy, and Kate would like to forget.

 

[TK-421]

I say it has to do with Locke.

On ABC.COM, there is a 2 minute sneak peek of the premiere on Jan. 31 where

Spoiler

Jack tells Kate he will kill Locke

.

 

[Steve Jordan]

I say it has to do with Locke.

On ABC.COM, there is a 2 minute sneak peek...

But will he? Who knows? Besides, this is about Jacob. Jacob is one of Ben's tools. I don't believe he exists. I'm not sold on whether Locke really believes in Jacob, or just sees the whole thing as an elaborate gag designed to con people.

On the other hand, Locke has proven himself to be highly susceptible to suggestion, and may have doubts. Don't be surprised if Locke goes back to the shack, without Ben, to see what happens. Maybe eventually Locke comes to believe himself as Jacob's disciple, or voice.

 

[Tilion]

Regarding the voice John heard inside the hut...You guys are aware that for a second or two we actually got to see a long-haired figure sitting at the table?

 

[Dave]

Regarding the voice John heard inside the hut...You guys are aware that for a second or two we actually got to see a long-haired figure sitting at the table?

I certainly missed that myself, but then if you follow through with what Steve Jordan is saying, it doesn't matter, we could still be seeing that scene from the point of view of Ben or John, and that it was simply in their imaginations. Or, an elaborate hoax with a film projection. Personally, I have become a little disheartened by the changing goal posts. Characters say or see one thing with great authority, then you find out later they were lying or it was something else entirely. The advertisements for next Season say that "The Answers are Coming", so I will wait and see. I'll still keep reading your speculations though!

 

[TK-421]

No, there was definetly someone there. I never believed Jacob was a hoax.

Just like I don't believe Ben is lying when he tells Jack in the season finale that he's doomed then all to death when he called the ship on the satellite phone.

 

[Steve Jordan]

No, there was definetly someone there. I never believed Jacob was a hoax.

Just like I don't believe Ben is lying when he tells Jack in the season finale that he's doomed then all to death when he called the ship on the satellite phone.

Maybe Ben believes they are all doomed...

Dave, you're right about one thing: The constant mis-information can be maddening. It reminds me of Nowhere Man, a short-lived series about a man who had somehow fallen into a deep, deep conspiracy centering around one of his photographs. Every episode promo promised to reveal what was going on... only to throw more mis-information at us, every single week. After awhile, I think everybody just got sick of it (I know I did), and gave up on the show. Result: They didn't finish the first season. And to this day, no one cares.

Lost has proven to be a lot more interesting than that, and I do believe the writers know a good way to close this arc. But in the meantime, we're all going crazy, and wondering just how much we can put up with before we throw a baseball bat through the TV and give it up.

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Ben is so obviously unhinged and so obviously dishonest, it's hard to tell if he's lying, telling the truth, delusional, or simply mistaken -- on any given point, actually.

Sometimes he tells lies for no apparent reason, like when he told Kate he was born on the island, which we've since learned is not the truth. What was that about? What did he think he had to gain by it?

I still have no idea what the deal is with Jacob, but I'm willing to entertain (and, more to the point, be entertained by) any and all theories.

 

[Steve Jordan]

This evening, ABC presented an "enhanced" version of last season's cliffhanger ending. The "enhancement" was pop-up text from the writers (and a nice sense of humor they have, too).

One thing that was implied by the writers' pop-ups tonight was this: Whatever Jacob is, Ben clearly believes he is real... he's not just inventing an invisible boss for everyone else's benefit. The pop-ups clearly implied that Ben does "take orders from Jacob," and that he is the only one who can hear him... except, now, for Locke, which clearly upsets Ben.

In general, when the pop-ups alluded to something which is still in doubt, they would say something to the effect of: "... or was it?" "Or did they?" "They believe that..." etc. No such hedging about Ben's belief in Jacob.

The ep also reminded me that Desmond started seeing into the future after being in the station for a long period of time, and getting back to civilization. He spent a lot of time in the station. So did Ben, probably. And Locke spent a lot of time down there, too.

Maybe whatever gave Desmond his precognitive abilities also has something to do with Ben and Locke being able to see and hear Jacob.

Allegorically speaking, this would make Jacob a sort of "voice of God," with Ben and Locke his disciples, and the crash survivors are the heathen unbelievers to be converted... or culled. (By the way, this doesn't ruin my "Cold War allegory" theory, it just means Ben is actually following an unseen leader, as opposed to inventing one to justify his own actions. Makes Ben a bit less devious, but maybe a bit more crazy.)

Lost-igorically speaking, maybe Jacob was an original inhabitant of the island, and somehow Ben and Locke are tuning into Jacob in the past, trying to warn them. (Nostradamus?)

Or...

...or maybe, like Des, Ben and Locke have developed precog abilities, and are tuning into Jacob from... the future?

Flash-forward, anyone?

(I need to go to sleep...)