Book ratings?

[Rane Longfox]

This is a topic I wondered about before, but seeing as HH brought it up in another thread, I though I'd start a new one.

Should there be some sort of rating system for books, like there is for films and games etc to have a targeted audience. I wouldn't agree with making it a legal thing, so that you can't buy books above your age group, but at least as a guideline.

The particular book that made me think of this was Ben Elton's "High Society". There were a number of specific scenes in there that a lot of people would certainly not have been comfortable reading, I would have thought, and of which there was no way of predicting for the reader.

Should there be something in place to help the more sensetive souls amongst us avoid these kind of books, or is this either unnecessary or unworkable?

 

[HappyHippo]

You already know how I feel!

YES.

I don't approve of censorship for its' own sake, and I think that forbidding people from reading books because of age/content is daft and unworkable.

But I think warnings along the lines of (eg, Matrix Reloaded)
Language: Some, Mild
Sex/nudity: infrequent, moderate
Violence: frequent, strong
could be useful to the individual. There's kids I know who've watched Matrix at home, even though it's a 15 film and they were ten at the time. At least their parents made an informed decision.

I read Clan of the Cave Bear aged ten, and there's a fairly graphic rape/sex scene in it. I didn't understand it, and it upset me, but I think if my Mum had known it was there, I might not have got to read the book till I understood it better. The cover and the blurb gave no hint of the actual content.

Sorry, tired and rambly...essence of thought being: enable the reader to make a decision equipped with as much info as possible.

 

[Azure]

I agree there should, a lot of manga actually have it on the back now because of the complaints that the illustration styles don't allways match what we expect the content to be.

 

[suupaabaka]

I'd prefer that the covers of books weren't marred by ratings. Instead, it would be better if bookstores adopted a universal system of rating a book.

Perhaps coloured circles on the price tag indicating a target audience, or even a lettered coding system (eg. V for violence, S for sexual references, D for drug use, G for Terry Goodkind)

 

[Ragnar]

I'm not entirely sure that I'd like to see a rating system on books - its not something that I've ever really thought about - but if we had to have one, I'd rather see a simple "Warning: Adult Content" or something similar.

 

[Ian Whates]

I'm not entirely sure that I'd like to see a rating system on books - its not something that I've ever really thought about - but if we had to have one, I'd rather see a simple "Warning: Adult Content" or something similar.

I agree with you Ragnar, I think a simple 'Warning' would be the way to go (such warning's aren't unknown on books in any case). My concern about 'rating' books as we do films, is that it would almost certainly influence your choice (or more to the point, my choice, in this instant). I could see myself being put off a book I'd been considering because it was rated as 'juvenile' or the equivalent, or at the other extreme 'adult/pornographic', and thereby I could miss out on what might have proved to be a cracking read.

Yes, I know I can always choose to ignore any such rating system, but it would be bound to have an influence, even if only on the subconscious; so personally, I would favour a 'warning'.

 

[that old guy]

I have to give this a conditional 'No,' though I could perhaps be argued into it if it is done right. I say no for the following reasons:

First, who decides what books get what ratings? In the USA the MPAA rates movies and I see no way this could be done equitably without such a body. Whether it is actually governmental or quasi-governmental really makes no difference in my eyes, it is a stamp of approval or I suppose disapproval.

Second, authors, editors and publishers would immediately start playing the same 'game' played with movies in the USA re: a PG-13 vs. an R rating. How many 'F-bombs' could they drop? Where does violence 'cross the line'? Hell, there's even a move to add use of tobacco products as a consideration in ratings.

Third, the sheer volume of books produced each year vs. the number of movies or video games means somebody is going to have to read and review each work. Granted most books only reach a very limited audience, but each one will still need to be rated. I can only see this increasing costs, probably substantially. Unless Harriet Klausner is available?

Fourth, it is pretty easy for a publisher to take a pass on any given book, especially if you're dealing with an an unknown author or a controversial topic. Whatever you think of A Clockwork Orange or American Psycho, I doubt anyone would want to see them to not see the light of day due to a rating system.

Like I said, I'm not dogmatic about this, but I just see too many problems in its implementation to be comfortable with the idea.

 

[j d worthington]

While the idea of getting that sort of information out there is laudable... an actual rating system on the books, or for use by bookstores, etc., has far too many pitfalls, I'm afraid. For example, we already have the problem of a lot of writers' work not getting quite the distribution it may deserve, because they are unknown or not "popular" writers; and they would be given even shorter shrift, as controversy over ratings enters the arena: popular writers like King would be given even more weight when deciding which books to actually allow in (and something that is viewed as too risky is likely to not get as much distribution as "safe" books... at least, until they get a groundswell of support, something obscure writers aren't likely to get), or which to give less space, etc.

However, there used to be (and still are, I think) some reviewers who do note such things in a paragraph or two at the end of a book review; if we must have such an idea of some sort, why not post such reviews on any controversial books? That is, have them as part of the book's display, the way at least one or two of the bookstores around here do? Perhaps write and request that more reviewers include such a practice -- separating such concerns from the body of the review to avoid "spoilers", for instance? And there may be some oneline services that do a fair amount of this; though, to be honest, with the sheer amount of material that becomes available each week (let alone each month or year) I don't see such being a practical system, really... and what use would it be with older books, or books that are still new, but over a few months old? Not to mention the points that O.G. raises (have you actually looked into how the ratings system for films works? it's absolutely laughable!).

 

[littlemissattitude]

No. Absolutely not. Of course, I have to give fair disclosure: my parents never censored anything I read, and I started reading books out of the adult section of the library when I was in the second grade (age 7). I would not have been able to read a lot of things that I read in elementary school and junior high if there was some sort of restrictions in place.

As it was, there were some books that the librarians wouldn't let me check out of the library when I was around age 10 to 12, when I started getting interested in reading them..."The Graduate", "M*A*S*H" (yes, it was a novel), and "Rosemary's Baby" come to mind immediately. I got around that by simply sitting and reading them in the library. I wouldn't have been able to buy that book of Jim Morrison's poetry (The Lords and the New Creatures) when I was about 14. I wouldn't have been able to read Soul on Ice (by Eldrdige Cleaver...look it up if you haven't heard of it) when I was 12 or 13. And I would have been the poorer for it if I hadn't been able to read these things, along with all of the other books I devoured at a very young age. Taught me a lot about the world.

Now, I'm not saying that all children are ready to read some of the things I did at the ages I read them. But I always discussed the things I read with my parents, especially with my father. Well, not the Morrison poetry...the parents didn't really need to know about that. And some of the radical political literature that I was reading in junior high (late 1960s/early 1970s) made my parents, oh, nervous is the best word, I suppose. But all my friends' parents had shelves of books that they weren't allowed to read...it was always fun to go look at them and say, "Well, I've read that one...and that one...and that one"...and I have to say that I didn't turn out any worse than any of my friends and actually turned out a lot more sane than a number of them and managed not to get into a lot of the trouble (of various kinds) that they did during adolescence.

 

[Ragnar]

A random thought just occured to me - if a rating system was applied to books, would the Harry Potter books be rated as adult in the US because of their occult content?

 

[iansales]

Rating the contents of books is the first step on the road to censorship. Oh, wait - we already have censorship...

As soon as you give someone the power to determine whether or not a publication is suitable for certain sectors of the population, you also give them to power to determine whether a publication is suitable for the whole population. And should they happen to disagree with you over what constitutes "suitable"... tough luck.

Like most people, I'm quite capable of choosing what I want to read; and equally capable of putting a book down if I no longer want to read it. We all have the capacity to discriminate - and those who don't, have guardians, such as parents - so why hand it over to someone else? Unless, of course, you don't want the responsibility of making such choices for yourself...

 

[scalem X]

I too am leaning towards the path of 'no'. Some reasons:
-I have found it one of the better parts that in a book, you can't know until you read. If you really have to know what's in there, read reviews on the net.
I have even heard lots of stories from people, who as a child have read a lot of books from the index librorum prohibitorumjust because they wanted the stuff that was regarded as 'forbidden'.
-No matter what precautions, some moments in your life you'll be shocked by things. And guess what, it's normal.
-Books... what's next? Paintings? Some of the scariest objects alive are paintings, yet they have no rating. Somewhere on chronicles there is a scary painting thread, yet I don't want to look for it, because I still fear I won't sleep tonight if I watch those.

Agh well the main reason would be the loss of mysticism that surrounds books. A dark gloomy book might give the impression that no person who read it, has lived on or whatever. A red sticker 18+ might take your fun away.
anyway just my 2c.

 

[Winters_Sorrow]

Tough call really. Books don't really get mentioned as much as they probably should as influencing people although Catcher in the Rye got finger-pointed as some sort of anarchic device.
I know what you mean about Clan of the Cave Bear HH - the whole series dealt with sex in a somewhat gratuitous way IMO and was probably too much for younger audiences. In a way of course, we already have a rating system in place - teenage books usually now have their own section, children's books and adults likewise. Books in those categories usually 'self-censor' to meet their target audience's needs.
Like LMA, I felt I was old enough to read adult books long before I was "allowed to". I started by pleading with my parents for 1 choice on their adult tickets and found I enjoyed those books much more than the child/teenage ones I was allowed to borrow so eventually badgered them and the library into giving me adult tickets. One you cross that protective barrier however, it's all fair game and as someone else said earlier, if you choose to read adult books then you have to expect some level of adult content and deal with it, either by skipping ahead at uncomfortable scenes or putting the book down. Jean Auel's books were definitely adult in size and nature so, by reading them at 10 you were making the choice (consciously or otherwise) to expose yourself to the adult world. Imagine how much worse you would have felt had it been something even more extreme!

So after my long and rambling post I've come to the conclusion that the current system of book 'segregation' and classification (horror contains well, duh, horror) is warning enough and anymore would be confusing and somewhat of an overkill.

 

[ambershadow]

I have to say no also. It would be very complicated and who would make that decision? My parents never censored my reading and yes I did come across some that I probably should not have read but I always felt comfortable asking my parents. I always watched what my children read even to the point of reading the books myself. If I felt they needed guidence I would talk to them and we never had issues. I think ratings would also inhibit the authors and make their writings less enjoyable.

 

[Connavar]

No no no it has too many pitfalls and its totaly unecessary. I would hate seeing some rating label on the cover.

Everyone checks out what kind of book it is before buying anyway.

I dont wanna see some MPAA like people judge the books and decide what people read.

It would do alot more damage than good.

 

[Joel007]

You can put a book down if it gets too uncomfortable. I know people walk out of films, but that tends to be after you've already had a rather graphic and sudden shock. In the case of a book you can see it coming.

 

[j d worthington]

You can put a book down if it gets too uncomfortable. I know people walk out of films, but that tends to be after you've already had a rather graphic and sudden shock. In the case of a book you can see it coming.

Not necessarily, Joel. I've run into some cases where it was a jolt (but not any that I can recall where it didn't work -- perhaps I've just been uncannily lucky in that).

Again, I think the best thing to do is to look up some of the reviewers who address such things in their reviews -- usually at the end of the review, so as not to spoil it for readers -- but you may have to check around to see which do that. That's really the best compromise for this sort of thing, I think. As I said, I don't see anything wrong with providing information a prospective reader may find helpful in helping them to decide on a book, but to do much more in the nature of segregating books than we already do tends to cause more problems than it would solve, and it would inevitably be used for some form of censorship imposed from outside, rather than the reader.

 

[Pyan]

No.
Do we really want books to end up with the ratings compromises that we have in films? And who decides? How strict are the guidelines/rules? There'd be a huge bottlenck at the publishing stage, while the book is rated, adding to the cost of the book at the point-of-sale. And as WS says, there's already a guideline in place, the classification system used by most booksellers. (romance, YA, horror, childrens, etc.)

 

[Donna Scott]

I would say no, because you are not a passive recipient when you read something in the same way as when you see it on film. When I was a teenager, I was very childish, easily shocked and hung around with all the evangelical Christians, but they all loved Virginia Andrews. I was a member of the local library which didn't let teenagers take out adult books of any kind until the age of 14 - so I had read all the children's books 3 times over, it was very frustrating (I could read Little Women, but not Jane Eyre). I did read things like 'Incubus' in which a demon rapes and kills a 9 year old girl in the bath, but I stopped reading at that point (clue: title!!) and wasn't affected by nightmares. If I had carried on reading, it would be because I was ready to cope with that kind of thing - and maybe I didn't like the book anyway?

 

[Duchessprozac]

I have to say no, it is not a good thing. Just look at the MPAA. Books would go the same way. No longer would there be anything remotely risque in YA books for fear that it may up the rating of the book into a completly different market. And what if certain stores refuse to stock 'adult' books so they can give the impression of being a family store?

Books are currently the only media capable of saying whatever they like without much in the way of censorship and I, personally, would like to keep it that way.