Journalism v. writing

[Anastasia]

Hi Everyone,
I was talking to a friend today, about writing, and she said that in her opinion there are journalists and there are writers, and generally, the two are very different animals.

Her reason for saying this was that journalists get very good at saying all the salient point in the first couple of paragraphs - they give you the hook, and then fill in the details, and then the article is finished. But when journalists try to write novels, the problem is that they basically tell the entire story in the first chapter and you wonder what the point is in reading the whole book!

Having read a couple of fictional contributions from professional journalists, I know what she means, but now I'm worried - I'm getting quite good at journalism, and journalistic-style pieces (very information-dense). Does this mean I can't write novels?

 

[Birol]

Of course it doesn't mean that, but writing is not just writing. It's a matter of knowing the form and the audience and which techniques work best. That's why it's important to understand the craft of writing, so you the writer can select which techniques to employ in a given situation. Even in one category of writing, which for the simplified purpose of this post we'll label as non-fiction, fiction, and poetry, there are differences.

In the example you've given, journalism, the typical style is the inverse pyramid, where all the general information are provided at the opening of the article and as the article continues, it gets into more and more specific details. This is the reverse of much, though not all, fiction writing, where one starts with a detail and expands outward from there until the entire story is known.

Think, too, of the academic writing you do for your classes. A well-written academic paper about women's health would go over not at all with the readers of a popular women's magazine. A writer could create an article on the same topic as the academic paper, but the tone, style, and voice would have to be different in order to appeal to the magazine's readers.

Short stories and novels, although both fiction, are also constructed differently. One can learn and apply techniques from one to the other, but they will not come across in exactly the same way because the mediums are different. A poet can choose to write a sonnet, haiku, limerick, or free verse poem, but the manner in which they create each will be slightly different due to the constraints of each form and the expectations of the reader of each style.

All of this is to say that any one writer can write in many different areas, but before they start working on a project, they need to have an understanding of what they are trying to create, how it will be read, who will read it, the expectations of those readers, and the limitations imposed by the medium they've chosen to write in, and which techniques will best serve that medium.

 

[j d worthington]

Hi Everyone,
I was talking to a friend today, about writing, and she said that in her opinion there are journalists and there are writers, and generally, the two are very different animals.

I have serious reservations about this one. Far too many writers have done well in numerous fields of writing. Just a handful of examples: Harlan Ellison (essays, fiction); H. P. Lovecraft (essays, short stories, novels, verse, and letters that are classed right up there with Walpole's); Mary Shelley (essays, fiction); Richard Brinsley Sheridan (essays, plays); Thomas Hardy (fiction, essays, poetry); Stephen King (essays, short stories, novels, screenplays); Sir Walter Scott (poetry, essays, short stories, novels); Ernest Hemingway (essays, short stories, novels); Isaac Asimov (scientific essays, humorous essays, verse [of various types], newspaper and magazine articles, novels, short stories); Robert E. Howard (short stories, novels, essays, verse); Rod Serling (short stories, screenplays, plays, essays); Lester Dent (novels, short stories, essays); Joanna Russ (essays, short stories, novels); Ursula K. Le Guin (short stories, novels, magazine articles, verse, literary criticism, general essays).....

With those who are predominantly one or the other, this may apply; and certainly there are those who can do one type of writing, but not another; but, in general, most writers can move from one type of writing to another fairly easily, especially if they practice doing so early in their career; it seems to be more difficult if they have only written one type of thing for years and then attempt something else....

 

[Joel007]

I just know that Terry Pratchett attribues his prolific writing to his career in journalism. And his sales speak for themselves. He has occasionally highlighted the gist of the story in the first chapter, but the fun is the journey

 

[Anastasia]

I just know that Terry Pratchett attribues his prolific writing to his career in journalism. And his sales speak for themselves. He has occasionally highlighted the gist of the story in the first chapter, but the fun is the journey

Kudos to the guy, but personally I can't stand his books - they're all the same (I'm going to get shot now, aren't I?)

 

[flynx]

(tales aim)

It seems that Pratchett is like marmite I've never found anyone that is indifferent.

I don't know about journalism although I do know how to write short stories. I mean really short. I mean 200 words or less. (I hate the term flash fiction which more often that not are just scenes or vignettes.) But are amazingly difficult to write.

Being a purple proser (as opposed to poser, although that probably applies too) even my intended short stories become quite lengthy. And purple just does not lend itself to journalism.

 

[Lith]

Since it seems the journalistic trend is toward paragraphs of "stage-setting" detail, I don't see any difference between journalism and fiction writing. <-- (I figured it was better to smile than grit my teeth in frustration at all the bad, not to mention unnecessary, prose in the news these days.)

The two are different, but you can still learn a lot from journalism that can be applied to fiction, like how to meet deadlines, how to construct readable sentences, how to get to the point, how to organize your thoughts, how to find inspiration when it doesn't come to you...

 

[Mammon]

there are journalists and there are writers, and generally, the two are very different animals.

I have to disagree with this one. Journalists and writers are both of the same kind but only have diffrent goals and use diffrent ways to reach it. There are also many journalists that start write a book and then write a very good book too. That wouldn't be possible if they where 'different animals'.

I'm getting quite good at journalism, and journalistic-style pieces (very information-dense). Does this mean I can't write novels?

Of course not! That journalists write very information dense pieces doesn't mean they can't write pieces filled with more nonsense than information. They could very well use their skills in describing information in describing events, surroundings, characters and feelings. They can still write novels if they want to. They just have to take their time, like all writers have to do.

NOTE: This is just my opinion on this subject. But i think it is a very good subject. I love writing and I am going to study Journalism after my holiday so I think that i will find this out myself. Then I hope that my opinion is right.

 

[Anastasia]

Mammon, all the best for your course. I thought about doing a journalism degree myself, but am happy to that I chose to do Social Policy instead. After all, its all writing

 

[dustinzgirl]

I write both journalistic writing (alternative medicine, healthy living, women's issues, ect.) and fiction, although my fiction isn't the best yet. I also write business proposals, marketing research, ect for companies. Thats boring as hell, but it gets a paycheck.

I don't think that people can only write one or the other. I think a writer can move from each, although writing statistics from an online survey and analyzing the results agains a marketing scheme takes a very different part of the brain, and journalism writing takes a different part of the brain again, and fiction writing is another part of the brain, they all follow the same basic format:

Introduction (who, when)
Evidence (how, why)
Conclusion (what was learned, changed)

Everything follows that, even the longest fantasy fiction. Jordan, for example, introduced Rand and Moraine and then used 'evidence' to support why rand was so important and then (hopefully) will eventually come to a conclusion that wraps up the evidence.

 

[Anthony G Williams]

I've never tried journalism, but (apart from my two novels) I have written a lot of non-fiction; analytical reports (in my old day-job), plus articles and books on military technology (which require a different style from the reports).

I have found fiction writing to be radically different from non-fiction. Out the window goes the carefully-structured, clear explanations, in comes the relatively free-form approach featuring concealment, tension and surprise, plus the development of characters who have an alarming tendency to drag the plot off in their own directions. But underlying both is a basic love of spinning words - without that, you're not likely to be much good at any sort of writing.

 

[dustinzgirl]

I agree anthony.

And I'd also like to say taht some of the stuff I've worked on, esp in the area of logistics, required reading a lot of military logistics manuals, and they were not interesting at all. I bet you didn't write those ones though, did ya? LOL.

 

[Anthony G Williams]

And I'd also like to say taht some of the stuff I've worked on, esp in the area of logistics, required reading a lot of military logistics manuals, and they were not interesting at all. I bet you didn't write those ones though, did ya? LOL.

Definitely not!

Actually, a lot of my articles are posted on my website....I am quite overcome by my own generosity

 

[JDP]

I guess that as long as a writer recognises the different approaches required for journalism as compared to, say, writing fiction, there's no reason why they can't use their skill with words for both.


**Bows to receive the gold medal for longest sentence ever **

 

[JonCG]

Journalism is a learnt skill and so is writing fiction and non-fiction. It seems to me that there's a lot of room for crossover. One advantage journalists have is they know how to structure - intro, a couple of experts, statistics, general copy, conclusion - and this is a useful skill to have when planning a novel. It's the same, just writ much larger.

The other thing is journalists aren't afraid of writing, because if someone tells you to do 3000 words by lunchtime that's what you do. The first book I wrote... Well, the first published one, I got round the how the hell do I write 100,000 words by deciding in my head it was 33 features, I was just going to write them one after the other, without stopping.

The downside, I think, is that journalists have a tendency to be glib when they write novels because they're used to simplifying facts and arranging them in the easiest order.

 

[Anastasia]

I recognise what Jon is talking about.

The sort of journalism I seem to be best at is the "True life experience" type of thing. Fundamentally, stories. I felt it would be a short hop, skip and a jump from writing stories that actually happened, to stories that might have happened/happen. I can write an analysis of lawn-mowers or a manual on preparing a new fish tank, but it bores me to tears to write what the market demands. I am not good at writing what I've been asked to write, or writing anything I'm not interested in.

I think I wanted to try novel writing because a couple of projects have been suggested to me which, although true-life stories, sound rather like novels in their structure, and to be honest, I don't know how to structure a novel. I'd also like to expand my imagination and be a little more creative. There aren't many opportunities to be creative when writing essays about social policy!

The problem is not the writing (as Jon suggested, I'm not afraid to write and can happily write for hours every day), but the planning. I like the idea of writing 30-odd articles and stringing them together - I think that is an idea that could work for me. I am very systematic in my writing. I have to know exactly what happens, to whom, and in what order, before I can write a word. I am not the sort who can just sit down at my computer and think up stuff.

Thanks everyone for sharing your ideas and experiences - that is definitely what I need to encourage me. At the base of this 'problem' is a feeling that I can't write fiction. I actually gave up entirely for 2 years and exclusively wrote non-fiction. But I think I've a mental block about it. My goal is to write 80,000 words by October.

 

[Anthony G Williams]

Thanks everyone for sharing your ideas and experiences - that is definitely what I need to encourage me. At the base of this 'problem' is a feeling that I can't write fiction. I actually gave up entirely for 2 years and exclusively wrote non-fiction. But I think I've a mental block about it. My goal is to write 80,000 words by October.

Good luck!

Remember the one essential for writing: BOSFOK!

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