Falling between the cracks

[Paramour]

I was puddling through the wonderful bits of information google has to offer today. I'm trying to find the right publisher to send my book to. The main problem is, that Brimstone falls between Young Adult and Adult fantasy. At least, that is my impression. If anyone has any knowledge of either catagory and can help me sort out my plight, that would be fantastic. Here are some exerpts for example:


***It took a good hour’s walk to arrive on the cleanly landscaped lawn of La Villa de Nageant, but, when they did, the abode came to life. As soon as Moesin’s leather loafers touched the grass the lawn seemed to purr. The grass blades shivered slightly in the windless night and the darkness of the witching hour fled as hovering balls of purple witch-light sputtered and lit. With their illumination, the marble and brick-stone manor donned a whimsical aura. And with the newly added light, it was easy to spot the serpentine walkway cutting through the lawn and the shinning pebbles that gave off the resemblance of scales on a snake. .***


***“Moesin,” He rumbled. Each word that followed quaked with its own raw brutality and dribbled with a poisonous intent. “I shall kill you if anything has happened to Evixa. I know you’re to blame for this and by the Gods above I will hunt you down and hang you from the tallest branch, boy. I’ll be watching you.” ***


***The two rolled, but Draeden’s weight and strength allowed him to easily grasp for and receive the upper hand. Before the momentum of their initial tumble had completely faded, Draeden was pinning Kegro to the floor, and before the boy could even think to shift, Draeden sent a punch to Kegro’s face, landing it between the eyes. That, coupled with his head resting on the hard floor, was enough to blacken the boy’s eyes and render him unconscious. It surprised Draeden slightly, in that moment to witness how great his strength truly was. Shaking off his prideful revelation, Draeden swooped off Kegro and took hold of his shirtfront. He dragged the prone form a few steps before allowing him to flop down next to Rafiye. It was then that he noticed Kegro was still partially awake, though he was unsure of his surroundings and place in the world. His jumbled mumbling spilled through bloodied lips, which sporadically spewed and repeated witless babble.***

***
Moesin drew the blade away from Succo and moved it in a great arch above his head. The blade began to glow a bloody, violent shade of red as the wild magic Moesin drew into himself was being channeled into the steel. The vampires eyes grew wide. Succo, who had looked so arrogant in the beginning, gained a fearful gleam to his eyes. He no longer looked at Moesin like some pitiful waste of flesh and space, but as the underestimated enemy rising to meet the challenge presented. Succo turned tail and pushed his way through the group, running for safety.

Before the others could move and follow their leader, Moesin made Succo his first victim. He brought the sword down in a sweep and violently hissed –the same hiss he had used on the candle. Moesins blade, fiery red hot, shot a spike of electricity. It hit Succo square in the back, between his shoulder blades. The vampire tripped with the force, but found himself rising into the air as Moesin lifted the tip of the blade. Without any further adue, Moesin slashed the blade down. Succo remained in the air, but his body doubled back, his head touching the back of his knees as if his spine had been reduced to jelly. The silence turned into pained screams and the stomach-churning sound of breaking bones. The cries were silenced suddenly as Succos body erupted. Limbs, chunks of flesh, guts – it all splattered the vampire ring as it rained down from above. ****


These are samples taken from different chapters (thought they go in order starting from first chapter) Some are bloody and gruesome while others lack precise detail. I compare it to any other adult fantasy and it seems to be missing just a little something, but what, I can't decide.And yet, it seems to bloody for Young Adult novel. Anyone have any suggestions?

 

[Culhwch]

Well, it's hard to make that call on a couple of snippets like this. I would say that the style is more YA than adult. But I would judge the genre from an overall tone and the kinds of themes that the work explores. Who was your intended audience? Who did you write this fr? Those questions might help - forget about trying to find what it's missing or how bloody it is. If it's YA and it's bloody, than that is what it is.

Just a quick question - is this a final draft? Because if so there are a number of simple errors in here that you'll want to fix up before submission.

 

[Paramour]

No, it's not the final draft. I have one last big edit to do after my final revision.

Thanks for answering ^_^ Actually, when I started writing, it wasn't intended for anybody but myself. Then it became a 110,000 novel with a second in the planning.

I was looking over my adult fantasy books and Brimstone does seem to lack that umph. Perhaps during my re-write I should try and gear it to an audience now that I've decided to try and get published.

To the library! -zooms-

 

[lin robinson]

I've been troubling over a "between the cracks" thing myself, Paramour, as I finish up a present day sci fi novel wtih mostly teen-aged characters.
I think who would most like it would be young adults. People who outgrew Harry Potter but not The Matrix.

Trouble is, a LOT of people think it is too sexy, violent, profanity-laden, drug-mentioning and possible Satanic to qualify for that audience.
Which of course is EXACTLY what that audience spends their money on.
So I'm a bit of a loss.

Which I'm sure I will be able to convert to a profit...but it makes for some marketing puzzles.

 

[scalem X]

Well I would think the sollution to your problems very easy.

Submit your manuscript to both. You'll get either an acceptance or a rejection slip which might say something like: Not fit for YA or maybe you should try YA agents/publishers.

In case you get both sorts of rejection slips, you might want to consider picking a side and rewrite.

 

[lin robinson]

I ususally find it easier to anticipate than rewrite. Try to find out what's going on and lean towards the side I want to be on. Editing by rejection slips is just too damned expensive.

 

[scalem X]

I ususally find it easier to anticipate than rewrite. Try to find out what's going on and lean towards the side I want to be on. Editing by rejection slips is just too damned expensive.

Well then don't whine and pick a side. Because isn't that your problem? Well I have the brilliant sollution: rewrite for both audiences and then judge which one to send off. But of course you don't want to do that, because you are all about minimum effort, maximum profit. Writing won't make your rich, Lin, I'm sorry to spoil your dream.

 

[Paramour]

Thanks for replying, everyone!

I do have to agree that I should pick side and re-write. I am tempted to do YA, because there is an innocence to the book that I find may appeal to the younger groups. Then again, adults have a tendency to appreciate books like that at well - I'm an adult and find that most of the books lining my shelves aren’t laced with racy scenes and inappropriate gore.

I went to the library yesterday and forked through more than a dozen books – fantasy, sci-fi and fiction alike. They seem very character driven and emotionally daunting. There’s usually some emotional reason the main protagonist goes on the journey(plot). Brimstone is sort of like that, though the protagonist is blackmailed into it.

When I re-write, I'm pretty sure I'm going to target the YA audience and to cover all my bases, I'll send out to both YA and Adult publishers.

Know what would be interesting? A sub-genre of sorts for adults. Like easy-readers for children. They’re adult classified, but have the swift pace and filler-devoid like many adult novels. I think it would be worth while. Then again, I’m running on coffee and motivation right now, so things do seem to sparkle a bit brighter than they should

 

[lin robinson]

But of course you don't want to do that, because you are all about minimum effort, maximum profit. Writing won't make your rich, Lin, I'm sorry to spoil your dream

I think that's uncalled for. But just for you information, I've written professionally for decades and done quite all right.
I plan on doing much better very soon.

If you're not having any luck with sales, I'm sorry to hear it. But I would appreciate you not characterizing my mindset, okay. Thank you.

 

[lin robinson]

A lot of this can be handled by two different sets of queries, I'd say, Paramour. (I won't even tell you what a clandestine kick I get out of ending sentences like that) I've handled articles like this in the past, querying different publishers with different slants to see who bites. One of them ended up being the only politics article I ever rewrote to be a Hustler piece. As near as I can recall.

Just a thought, so far as books go. As I say, I'm fooling around with this one myself.

BTW...you don't have to "choose a side". We aren't talking Bush vs The Ragheads videogame here. You can do a rewrite and have two versions.

 

[scalem X]

I think that's uncalled for. But just for you information, I've written professionally for decades and done quite all right.
I plan on doing much better very soon.

If you're not having any luck with sales, I'm sorry to hear it. But I would appreciate you not characterizing my mindset, okay. Thank you.

I know you have been writing professionally for decades, it was one of the first things you stated when you got here. I'm not argueing that you can't write or even that you write above average, but...
I stated that writing nowadays isn't really a way to get rich (unless you write movie scripts) and that in every post I read from you, I seem to get the impression: minimum effort, maximum profit. (which is not a bad thing, but I wouldn't advice it to aspiring writers)

I must admit that I felt a bit annoyed (to say the least) (and maybe that's why I seem to have directly attacked your way of acting), when you commented something about: "Editing by rejection slips is just too damned expensive." (if you add "for me" or "in my opinion" to that sentence, I might feel less offended, but it's another statement that has: "Fact, true for everyone" written all over it and that is something I hate.

I'm sure every statement that you make hold true for yourself and it is interesting to know another opinion about something, but please try to state them less as global facts.
Suppose you submit by e-mail: it costs you nothing.
I take it that you don't submit by e-mail, but that doesn't hold true for anyone.

Oh and I haven't anything to do with sales, I'm a student, remember.

 

[Paramour]

Oye, kiddies, now lets play nice =o

Didn't mean to lay the groundwork for irritants.

 

[Susan Boulton]

Just a suggestion, Paramour, write out a few query letters and synopsies for the work, pitching it from YA and an adult POV, see which feels better for the material. You could spend a lot of time and effort editing it, only to find the work loses the spark.

Also remember when you are pitching to agents, a number of US ones rep both YA and fantasy, so you will get only the one shot at these agents, unless they request a re-write and re-submission.

Also suggest you have a trawl through the absolute write forum, for info on what makes a YA vs an adult story, see how yours compares, can't harm, before you wade into a massive edit.

Absolute Write Water Cooler - Powered by vBulletin

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Keep in mind that YA fiction is usually aimed at younger teens (the assumption being, I take it, that the kids who do a lot of reading are going to be reading adult books by the time they reach their mid-teens) -- so publishers are most likely to be looking for stories that have a strong appeal for children in the age 12-14 range.

As far as style goes, your first two excerpts seem a bit flowery for kids that age.

As far as content, it's hard to say from what you've given us. But do consider that a significant portion of the market for books in that category is made up of teachers, parents, and librarians, who are rarely eager to indulge a young reader's taste for gratuitous gore and violence. YA books have a lot more of both than they did twenty or thirty years ago, and a lot more sex, too, but in order to appeal to this segment of the market there needs to be some sense that these elements serve a higher storytelling purpose than mere thrills and excitement.

My advice would be to write your book in the way that seems to serve the story best. You might still want to experiment with different approaches before you find that out for sure -- but wait until you are sure before you decide where to send it and how to market it. Some of the best YA authors I know say they don't set out to write specifically for young readers, that's just the way their stories develop.

 

[lin robinson]

I'm a student, remember

No reason I should "remember" that. But perhaps you should.

 

[scalem X]

No reason I should "remember" that. But perhaps you should.

extremely funny, but totally irrelevant.

It's interesting that you say 12-14, Teresa. So the audience of say: 16-17 is the part that is left out? The part that reads either adult novels or nothing at the moment. The question is though; is there a way to reach those and fill up that hole in the market?

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

I think some of the packaged series books based on TV programs etc. probably appeal to teenagers in that group -- the ones who aren't avid readers ready to move on to adult books. The books aren't very challenging (on any level), but the characters and their situations are more mature, even if the writing isn't.

The thing is, that segment of the market is irrelevant for writers trying to sell their own original works.

 

[scalem X]

Maybe you're right and isn't there really a gap. If you use RL Stine as the example for YA, then I fear that once you his barrier, you'll be in the adult market anyway.

 

[Paramour]

I based my other novel series on RL Stine age group - readers market - and its in the process for Wendy Lamb Publishing. I've never struggled writing for children, since my nieces and nephews are so quick to offer advice and want to listen. "No, auntie, that just doesn't work. She needs to be sadder, not thinking so much. That's how I'd feel" I love my little gremlins, they're cute AND useful. It's a wonderful thing.


Thanks for the feedback, guys. I thought I'd give a bit more to go on, since the chopped up snippets don't really collectively show anything in particular. How about this? I think my style is YA, for the most part, but then again, I wrote this book based on the thought ' I'll write a book that I would want to read'. Not thickened with backstory or stuffed with fluffy descriptions. Its an easier read, but does that always make it YA? I wonder...

Here's that other scene, a whole one, perhaps that makes a bit of difference in the judgement?


_________________

“Draeden, give me the pack.”

Draeden’s lean strides faltered then stopped. Pivoting slowly on heel, he turned upon the parched dirt to face Hazin. The vampire had previously been trailing listlessly behind he and Moesin, spontaneously breaking into speech only to propagate an alternate route that had nothing to do with the glossy black dome that simpered on the desert soil ahead of them. Both Moesin and Draeden brushed off his ridiculous proposals, for both were brimming too high with anxious enthusiasm about plundering the exploits of the infamous Ebon Barb. The tone in Hazin’s voice as he demanded the pack, however, was enough to give Draeden and Moesin pause in their approach of the great dome.

“Why?” Draeden questioned. Subconsciously, he fingered the strap of the pack that lay strung over his shoulder.

“Just give it to me.” Hazin ordered again. His hand was offered out in demanding expectation, and, somewhat apprehensively, Draeden slipped the bag from his shoulder and transferred it into Hazin’s expectant hand. Quickly, Hazin snatched the loose strap and on the same momentum he swung the pack to his left and shoved it against Moesin’s chest.

“Put it on,” Hazin commanded. Moesin simply gaped back at Hazin.

“Are you—“

“Don’t talk to me,” Hazin snapped. “From this point on you do not speak to anyone, you do not respond to anyone nor do you address anyone, and you do not lift your eyes off the dirt beneath your boots the whole while we are in that dome. You are a pack mule slave and nothing more. Got it?”

In the silence Hazin offered to Moesin for his response, both Moesin and Draeden stared in open speculation at Hazin. Though they could not see it beneath his cloak, Hazin’s sharp features were twisted into irritated resignation, and the thin lines of impatience that furrowed his brow only settled more deeply into his expression as neither Draeden nor Moesin made a response.

“Look, you brainless pixie,” Hazin snarled at Moesin. “I know about this place. The vampires here hate wizards. More than that, they enslave them. Wizards are no better than dirt. They cannot make eye contact with a superior—which is any vampire—and you cannot speak unless I—who will be playing your master and don’t you dare argue—give you permission to speak. If another vampire speaks to you, hits you, spits at you, insults you, or so much as looks at you, you do NOT react. You keep your eyes down and your mouth shut. Wizard slaves do not go anywhere on their own, and almost all of them are collared. You do not leave my side, though you must follow a step or so behind me on principle. Understood?”

The astonished silence plaguing Draeden and Moesin fortified stronger in the wake of Hazin’s previous monologue. Moesin’s pale lips were slack and gaping as shock rendered him dumb.

“What…?” He swallowed and had to pause to shake his head as if the physical motion could expel the stunned stupidity from his mind. “Hazin? What the HELL? How in all the fires of Brimstone do you know all this?

“Never mind how I know,” Hazin growled in exasperation. “Just listen to me unless you want to get yourself maimed. That’s the general punishment for deviant wizard slaves: mutilation. So just do what I told you so you don’t walk out of there with half a face. It’s bad enough having to listen to you now. I don’t want it to be hard to look at you then.”

Moesin’s mouth dropped open as an angry retaliation, though Hazin immediately cut him off.

“Starting now,” He said. “You will not react to anything but an order that I give you. Look down now and don’t look up for anything. There are guards stationed at the dome’s entrance so you will need to look the part of a slave before we get there.”

Forsaking Moesin, Hazin wheeled on Draeden. “The vampires of Ebon Barb don’t give a damn one way or another about shifters. You’re just there. They won’t react to you but be damn sure that you don’t give them reason to dislike you. One wrong word from you could damn their opinion of your entire race forever. Oh, and don’t pay any heed to Moesin,”

Hazin added as he turned and began walking toward the dome. “From now on he’s the scum on your boot. Now let’s get this over with.”

Despite Hazin’s instruction to disregard Moesin, Draeden pivoted his attention back to the silent wizard. Moesin’s fists were clenched, his spine ridged with clenched muscles, and his expression pulled firmly downward into a drawling sizzle of pure, seething wrath. The narrow slots of heated fury that took the place of his eyes were fuming steadily after Hazin. It was at that moment, when Draeden had just noted that Moesin was glaring a sweltering hole into the back of Hazin’s departing head and not keeping them centered on the ground, that Hazin’s sharp voice floated back to them.

“Eyes down, slave.”

Moesin seemed to swell, as if his raw, indignant fury was straining against the seams of his flesh and bloating him with its inability to escape his physical prison. His silver eyes snapped to Draeden, and, for a moment, he held the shifter’s unsettled gaze. Then, he seemed to deflate in a sigh in spiritual relent. With an elaborate sweep of his upper torso and arms into a bow, he gestured Draeden on after Hazin in an ‘after you’ motion and dropped his eyes humbly to the ground.

Draeden’s lips toyed up into a smirk as he hurried to level his strides with Hazin’s. The vampire was moving swiftly, and already he had consumed a generous distance toward the dome. Ridge tension stiffened his spine. Draeden raised a brow in silent regard of Hazin, though a growl shot his way by Hazin sufficiently stilled his voice in his throat.

A resentfully appeasing silence weighed down above their heads the remainder of the way to the dome. Hazin and Moesin were both thoughtful in their lack of words, and Draeden was occupying himself with calculating the odd architecture of the nearing obsidian dome. Perfectly oval all around save for a smooth appendage, like a muzzle, that jut out on the side facing them. Built low, it was high enough to allow a man at average height to pass beneath just without brushing his head against the top. Beneath its ample shade, Draeden could just make out the pair of figures stationed precisely beneath the blackness just before the tunnel’s conclusion.

Moesin was simpering the entire approach, though he made a point to do everything Hazin instructed exactly. He was determined to follow-through with the slave semblance with a seething efficiency and was prepared to accept no nonsense from Hazin at the same time. Wondering if the other two had even noted his downcast eyes and obedient stance, he flicked his eyes up from the ground. The tunnel, now almost directly before them, startled him with its sudden proximity, and he just bit back a reflexive flinch. When a voice rang out from the shadowy depths, however, it was all he could do to grapple down a cry of surprise.