Has the concept of the space elevator...

[matt-browne-sfw]

... ever been discussed by this forum? How realistic is its implementation in the near future?

Or is Marshal T. Savage approach the better one to get rid of chemical rockets?

In the early Nineties Marshal T. Savage wrote a book in which he states that before humankind begins serious space colonization efforts it should

build cities in the tropical oceans (which he calls Aquarius)

Those cities would be fully self-sufficient by using resources from the ocean. In his view this would give humankind the right learning experience.

Based on the experience of living in ocean cities we should then move on to colonize the Moon, Mars etc. and eventually extrasolar planets inside our galaxy.

Instead of the space elevator, he favors the "Bifrost" bridge into orbit by digging underground horizontal tunnels which then bend vertical and up to the summit of tall African mountains. The space vehicles carry ice which will be converted to steam by laser beams accelerating the vehicles to 8 kps.

What are your views on this concept?

 

[chrispenycate]

Actually, apart from my little exposition in http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/11518-growing-a-beanstalk.html and http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/35007-the-first-step-into-orbit.html In this section, which obviously no-one liked because there were practically no answers, there was a chat on
http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/8099-future-inventions.html
Where obviously I ground the whole thing to a halt again.

Unless you can evacuate the tunnels, it's easier to put the vehicles on horizontal rails, and use linear accelerator technology, and the "laser launcher" technique doesn't require ice; the plate behind the vessel heats air, producing a jet propulsion as long as there is atmosphere, then evaporates ablitavely for thrust when there is no longer enough air to cause friction problems.

The tropical ocean (yea, the arctic ocean) is a very benign environment when compared with space. All the elements required for life are there, in huge quantities; it's hardly tech at all to live there. (I'm writing a series of stories about it myself, partly based on my minimalist experiences with the "Kraken" seahouse, in the late sixties (don't look it up; I couldn't find a word about it on the web, even having been there)
Hm, this is a very egocentric post, isn't it? If there's anything I can help with (or I should read to get a better idea of what I'm commenting on) do contact me.

 

[matt-browne-sfw]

Actually, apart from my little exposition in http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/11518-growing-a-beanstalk.html and http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/35007-the-first-step-into-orbit.html In this section, which obviously no-one liked because there were practically no answers, there was a chat on
http://www.chronicles-network.com/forum/8099-future-inventions.html
Where obviously I ground the whole thing to a halt again.

Unless you can evacuate the tunnels, it's easier to put the vehicles on horizontal rails, and use linear accelerator technology, and the "laser launcher" technique doesn't require ice; the plate behind the vessel heats air, producing a jet propulsion as long as there is atmosphere, then evaporates ablitavely for thrust when there is no longer enough air to cause friction problems.

The tropical ocean (yea, the arctic ocean) is a very benign environment when compared with space. All the elements required for life are there, in huge quantities; it's hardly tech at all to live there. (I'm writing a series of stories about it myself, partly based on my minimalist experiences with the "Kraken" seahouse, in the late sixties (don't look it up; I couldn't find a word about it on the web, even having been there)
Hm, this is a very egocentric post, isn't it? If there's anything I can help with (or I should read to get a better idea of what I'm commenting on) do contact me.

Thanks for the links. Do you think the OTEC could work on a large scale?

e.g. as described in Ocean thermal energy conversion - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

 

[chrispenycate]

You'd need a good heat pipe several hundred mrtres long, using as its gas/liquid component some chemical that would not poison the ocean when the inevitable breakage occurs, and enormous heat exchangers (slightly less so if you can organise that both the warm and cool ends are in the requisite ocean currents. The convection currents are going to release huge quantities of nutrient sludge into the upper layers of the water, encouraging plancton growth and accelerating vegetation pollution of the upper heat exchanger (and barnacles and mussels), rapidly lowering its efficiency. I wouldn't be prepared to bet that in the depths you wouldn't find other species taking advantage of the warmth to multiply.
But the energy is there, in quantity. Unfortunately, if your colony is at the bottom, it's difficult to use any of it to heat the environment, as you need the difference in temperature to make the thing work. Your principal disadvantage I see (apart from biological negative feedback) is the low concentration of the energy, and unlike solar, you can't use mirrors to bring it together; it's immense, many hectare exchangers. Now, if you were building a floating island anchored in a warm ocean current…
And finally, the energy would be where it was, not convenient to export to land, or store. So, while it could be conveniently used to power an undersea colony, it wouldn't replace the energy sources we now have. I suppose there is no shortage of water around to electrolise for hydrogen fuel (converting present supertankers for transporting pressurised hydrogen, but obviously no way of liquidising it, and yes, I know – but where are we going to get that quantity of paladium? Asteroid mines?)
Be very good for the fishing, though.