My try at Worldbuilding

[booksforlunch]

Hi !
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I´ve lurked this forum for a while and found it very interesting. Inspired by threads about worldbuilding and map - creating, I wanted to try making a world up from scratch myself.
Until now I made the worlds my stories played in up as I wrote, but now that I tackle the task of writing my first novel, this tactic proves to be a bit ... unfortunate .
So I´m basically creating a guinea - pig world , to see what I need to do to make a ( more or less ) plausible world, before using what I learned to better define the setting of the novel in the making. ( Although I have to admit that I came up with several possible stories for this world, too.)
But I have some bugs in my concept, and I don´t know if they are to big to make this work.


So here´s my idea :

While playing hide and seek with the dog in a little wood we have near where we live, I had the idea of a world covered entirely with all kinds of woods - even the oceans and undergound !

I know about treelines, and I know of course that you don´t find trees growing in oceans, but I had the idea of a rather "flat" world with a non - tilted axis and two moons.
That means that there are no ( notably ) high mountains, while the oceans, covering 80 % of the planet, are at the outmost 500 feet deep.
Flat oceans are essential for my idea of flowting woods made of water lily - like plants and, in the shallowest regions, plants that are rooted on the ground, but with "heads" rising far over the watersurface. Since the oceans are salty, the plants are saltresistant, what gave me the idea of certain plants being able to filter their own water, producing salt as waste ( posibilty of people harvesting and trading this, here ).
The two moons are essential for my other idea for "oceanic woods". I thought it would be interesting to have the moons cause a tide. The idea is, that the moons are moving in their seperate orbits around the planet, and adding their gravitation up to a very strong tide. In the aforementioned shallowest parts of the oceans, which are now completely dry, the aforementioned plants reacheing from the bottom to the surface now go into "hibernation" until the saltwater returns - while the plants covering the bottom between them now get out of "hibernation". So we have two different kinds of woods here : One on high tide, where you travel in a boat between something akin to a mangrove forest, and one at low tide, which you can walk through with swamp like vegetation between the big trees ( until the water returns, that is ).
I didn´t wanted to have contraire seasons on north - and south - hemisphere, which is why the non tilted axis is - you guessed it - essential. But I still wanted seasons. That´s why I wanted to make the planet´s orbit around it´s sun a bit more extreme, so that for this world it is true what is wrong for earth : It´s a ( global ) winter, when the planet is the farthest away from the sun on it´s elliptical orbit.

But there is already the first problem :
Discussing about it with my father, he basically said that such a "flat" world would be more or less impossible. That there should be tectonic activity causing mountains like on earth. But Im quite sure that if I include high mountains like on earth, I make such shallow oceans impossible.
So, the question is ...
How much suspension of disbelieve can an author expect for the setting of his story ?
Can I say " Well, that´s how that world is", as long as I make it work logically in the boundaries of it´s faulty basic - premise ?


I would really apreciate any comments or suggestions in this matter.



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[Culhwch]

A very intriguing world - it actually sparked a little inspiration for my own current WiP... As for the dilemmas, I'm afraid I can't offer anything from a scientific viewpoint - those who can should be along presently, I imagine. But on suspension of disbelief - in my experience it comes down to how well you sell it. That takes good writing, and sound internal logic and consistency. There'll always be one or two who'll pick the flaw, but most of us will just appreciate (and accept) a colourful, imaginative world and good storytelling.

 

[Sephiroth]

First of all, I agree with Culhwch about suspension of disbelief. I've read things set in worlds that really don't feel much like real worlds at all, and still thoroughly enjoyed the stories. Having said that, I am the sort of minority pain who notices and gets annoyed by little details.

I really like the idea, it seems like you've put a lot of thought into it already. I have a few questions:

Is the world the same size as Earth? Same density?
Have people evolved there?
How did they evolve, and how long did this take?
(What kind of star is it?)
(Does the planet receive about the same amount of stellar energy as Earth?)

A cooler planet (interior) would produce markedly less tectonic activity. Less tectonic activity would mean that continental accretion occurs more slowly, which would give an Earth-like planet of a similar age (to allow for similar evolution to take place) a far higher ocean-to-land ratio, such as that which you suggest. If the planet was cooler (and the same age), it would also be less dense, however, and gravity would be less, so that the topographic range would increase, working against your attempt to keep elevations down. The topographical constraints you have imposed are fairly extreme for a 'living' planet.

But I'm not an astrophysicist, and the more outlandish and non Earth-like the planetary scenario, the less qualified I am to talk about it, really. A real expert would be of more use to you. There must be ways to get around some of these problems that I cannot see.......

 

[Culhwch]

Actually, now I'm reminded of a question I meant to ask first time 'round. Nothing too deep - is it fantasy, or science fiction?

 

[booksforlunch]

Thanks for the suggestions, all !

I checked them a few hours ago, and then thought about them and how to reply to them. Some things I had thought about in my initial post don´t work out as I hoped, obviously. With the input from your posts and the things chrispenycate pointed out in a private message I throwed the bits not working out of the concept and tried something new.

First, to answer Culhwch´s question :
Well the ideas for possible storylines I have are Fantasy in tone and execution, but with a "hidden" Sci - fi background. Since it is easier for ( hypothetical) readers to relate to human characters ( and easier to write ), I had the idea of settlers from earth, emergency landing on the planet, after noticing that a computer failure led them far astray from the course to the world they were supposed to colonialize. Their energy resources almost completely gone, they can´t go back, and have to make themselves at home in this world. The actual narration would tell of a time about 1000 - 1500 years after their arrival, from the PoV of their descendants, who know of their outerspace origins only from old myths and stories. That would give the opportunity to present same old humanity in a setting that shouts "soooo not earth " .
Oh, and gravity should be similiar to earth.

Now to the worldbuilding :
After the things chrispenycate pointed out, I decide to let go of the seasons, since the winter resulting of an extremely elliptical orbit would be to long and maybe to cold to support such lush vegetation as I have in mind. But I liked the idea of a rather old planet with less tectonical activity and strong erosion, to give reason to that "flat" planet. Also gone is one of the moons, since it only seems to complicate my tides and doesnt really help to support the idea of an extra long ebb I had.
Since I kinda liked the idea of such a spectacular tide - influenced wood / ocean I had to come up with something else.
Thanks to the comments about suspension of disbelieve I decided to go a bit Shakespeare here, following the motto There are more things in heaven and ... you now. So I want to make the flora from the planet rather outlandish and exotic in relation to earth´s.
I thought about algeas and anthozoa, and that the divide between animal and plant could be less strikt than it is on earth. And I thought about the ( not scientifically proven ) believe, that the moon can have influence on animals and plants.
So, what is, if the tide in the shallow region around the shores is not ( directly ) moon influenced, but caused by the huge trees akin to mangroves ? I thought about a monthly cycle ( a longer month than on earth ), in which the mangroves drain the surrounding water through their roots, filter out their nutritions, and send the filtered water back out. In the period of ebb, the water isn´t gone to the deeper ocean, but bound in the trees.
But why do they start that cycle all at once ? I thought about the synchronous spawning you have with coralls. It seems ( partially ) caused due to lunar influence. And that´s the reason for "my" trees to synchronize. I gave the extreme elliptical orbit to the remaining moon, so that once a month we have a time where the moon is really close to the planet, while the rest of the time he is farther away. The stronger gravitational pull during his closest position to the planet is the "signal" to start the drainage. This cycle is important not only for "feeding" but also for the time when the planet is closest to it´s sun ( it is still on an elliptical orbit, only a very modest ellipse ). When sun, planet and moon are closest to each other, the drain cycle starts again, but adding the "pull" of the sun, the "signal" changes, causing the trees to produce spawn, that is released, when there isn´t any water left to drain. So the seeds fall onto more or less dry ground, where some of them can settle, while the rest gets washed into the deeper ocean, when the water is released again, as food for the fisches.
And in case you didn´t notice, I just invented a neat way for the inhabitants of the planet to count the years and divide them. The tidal cycle marks the month, the spawning marks the beginning of a new year.
Which brings me to the plants growing between the mangrove like trees ( for which I should invent a name instead of saying mangrove like trees ). My initial idea was to have them hibernate when they are covered by water. It wouldn´t have worked with a daily tidal cycle ( although it might work with the new model).
But I have a new idea. I make these plants the floral equivalents of amphibians. They have two kinds of branches :
One kind is active when the plant is covered with water. For this time some of them behave like carnivorous plants, catching small fisches with stinging cells. Others "catch" flowting algeas or micro particles. Others rely on the nutritions in the ground, or live in symbiosis with a ( micro ) organism. And some might even be hibernating while underwater.
When the water vanishes, these branches are rolled up or curled in, while the others are activated. They are "normal" photosynthetic branches. Inbetween, both kinds of branches can be active, should the lower part still be covered with water.

That would be my plan for the vegetation of the ocean areas next to the shore ( waterdepth between 16 and 80 ft at high tide. )
Isn´t that great ? Now I have just to add the structure and vegetation of "deep" sea areas, the actual shore and the continents ( + geology).
Plus the climate.
And the animals. ( Since possible stories are fantasy themed, I would need some kind of mountable animal, wouldn´t I ? But animals like horses are creatures for plains, aren´t they ? Something like that wouldn´t evolve in a world full of woods. Now I´m seriously considering a huge boar like creature, that of course wouldn´t be fast but could carry you and your gear and your goods lastingly. )
And the societies the people live in.






I don´t think I can create this world and take the seventh day off.

 

[Culhwch]

You've put a lot of thought into this. It's coming together quite well, and sounds very intriguing. I'd be interested to read some when you start the writing process, if you're willing to post it up. That was another question I had - do you write in English or German?

On the subject of mounts, the first thing that came to mind for me was a kind of bipedal lizard - something akin to a dinosaur I guess. That would give you an animal that is quick and agile enough to get through the woods at a good pace.

Another question: what is the technology level of these descendants? I'm guessing quite low, but not in the same way as a typical Medieval-style fantasy world...

 

[Hilarious Joke]

Intriguing!