The Eyrie

Shacklock

The Reeeeet Demon!
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Oct 14, 2007
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I never quite understood how the setup worked for the Eyrie, from the books descriptions. Are the three waycastles, and the Gates of the Moon supposed to block some sort of narrow path, presumbly the only path, that winds up and around the mountainside and then the Eyrie it'self sits actually ontop of the peak?
 
I always assumed the Gates of the Moon were some way away, blocking the pass into the Vale. And yeah, the three waycastles guard a path that leads to the Eyrie, though I don't think it goes around the mountain, but rather is more of a switchback up one precipitous face, with the Eyrie at the top.
 
And for that frightening pass at the top that is about three feet wide and twenty or so feet long, you could become a leaf in the wind if you lost your footing. And so high up that Alyssa's tears (the gigantic waterfall) never reached the valley floor below.
 
I have more to add to the Eyrie...it is supposedly the most impernaterable structure in all of westeroes...is this true do u think that it could be taken by any amount of force...could dany's dragons even take it....I don't kow....I don't think that all of the army's combined in westeroes could take it...the eyrie IS untakeable i think....any thought's???
 
I'd say the dragons would give it a fair shake. Look at Harrenhal. Sure, it mightn't be liveable after they're done, but it would fall... In any case I don't see the Eyrie itself as much of a threat if it can't be taken. The Vale is the true prize. Leave whatever force is holed up in there be - it's not as if it blocks a trade route, or that they'd be able to make damaging sorties from behind it's walls.
 
I doubt the dragons will be able to fly that high. I mean it must be few thousands metres up in the mountain. Eyrie's only weakness imo is one!
It's out of order during the winter and as everyone knows "winter is coming" ;)
 
I have more to add to the Eyrie...it is supposedly the most impernaterable structure in all of westeroes...is this true do u think that it could be taken by any amount of force...could dany's dragons even take it....I don't kow....I don't think that all of the army's combined in westeroes could take it...the eyrie IS untakeable i think....any thought's???

True but you could easily wage a war of attritrtion and starve the Eyrie out while you sit and eat everything in the Vale xD
 
From what I understood from reading, the Eyrie has a protected harbor and a narrow pass of entry as well. Therefore you would have to establish a large cordon of seafaring vessels to enforce a blockade.

So the answer is sure the dragons could destroy the Eyrie, but I doubt they could effectively occupy the Eyrie....for that you would need a small land-bound force, and a large sea-force....the only one of which is currently heading to the western side of the continent.

I have to assume that Danys naval power will be largely made up of slow-moving troop transports. Unless allied with the Greyjoys she will be largely unable to "take" the Eyrie...but she will be able to destroy it.
 
From what I understood from reading, the Eyrie has a protected harbor and a narrow pass of entry as well. Therefore you would have to establish a large cordon of seafaring vessels to enforce a blockade.

Are you sure? I don't recall that being stated anywhere in the books. Besides, how would a mountain-top fortress have a protected harbour...? In fact I thought the Eyrie was a fair distance from the sea:

Westeros Map ~ Tower of the Hand

Pretty nifty little map they've got there, too.
 
I remember Catelyn intimating such in her POV when she was taking Tyrion there. I unfortunately do not have my books with me (theyre heavy, I really dont want to drag that much weight around the world) so I will acknowledge I could be misremembering the situation.

So like I said, I seem to recall the Eyrie had a protected harbor....if someone could search that particular chapter for me that would be appreciated...specifically the part where Catelyn is climbing the moutainside.....thanks Boaz
 
I remember Catelyn intimating such in her POV when she was taking Tyrion there. I unfortunately do not have my books with me (theyre heavy, I really dont want to drag that much weight around the world) so I will acknowledge I could be misremembering the situation.

So like I said, I seem to recall the Eyrie had a protected harbor....if someone could search that particular chapter for me that would be appreciated...specifically the part where Catelyn is climbing the moutainside.....thanks Boaz


Isn't it Chapter 35 in AGoT that you're thinking about? It describes the trip up the mountain....and that eerie pass at the top.
 
The point is as well, that unless the King is there, why would anyone want to attack the Eyrie? I mean if the Vale is perfectly protected, is it not also perfectly isolated and controlled. You could easily block any exit from the Eyrie and Vale by a relatively small army. I think that unless the Vale is hidding the King or delcares independence or something, the powers that be would just leave it alone.
 
Gulltown is the port for the Vale. Catelyn and Roderick left from there to White Harbor and Petyr landed there when he wooed Lysa. Littlefinger stated to Mace that sailing to Gulltown in winter is dangerous, so I doubt a winter amphibious invasion is likely. Using the map on the inside of the covers of ASOIAF, Gulltown is on a penninsula... I'd say that even if a hostile force captured Gulltown moving up to the Vale would not be an easy proposition.

Entering the Vale at all is difficult. The road that Catelyn took ends at the Bloody Gate where legend states that a dozen invading armies dashed themselves to pieces in the Age of Heroes.

The Bloody Gate and the Eyrie comprise two nigh impregnable fortresses for the Arryns.

I've been to the Great Wall of China twice and I'd like to compare it to what I imagine the Bloody Gate to be like. The Great Wall is twenty-five to fifty feet in height and maybe fifteen to thirty feet in width. It has castles and guard posts every ten to twenty miles. It does not really sound like much at all, but it's strength is in it's location. The Great Wall runs along mountain ridges. Just to get to the Wall an army has to hike for days through the mountains.

I think the Bloody Gate would be similar. After climbing through mountains for days, an invading army would reach a defended wall. The army's supplies would be strung out and easy pickings. The army's approach would be known for days, if not weeks, in advance. Lugging siege equipment up there would be a logistical nightmare. Finally, assaulting the Gate from a forty-five degree or steeper slope would be exhausting.

The best way to defeat the Arryns would be to ally with the Mountain Clans and let them show a secret way around the Gate or mayhaps to bribe an Arryn general. In effect, this is what the invaders of China always did. They'd buy off a disgruntled general and just walk around or under the Wall.

I've been thinking on the accessibility of the Eyrie. There is only one way up, unless you can fly. It reminds me of Masada. I went to Masada in 1995. It is an ancient fortress built atop a mesa that is seperated from the rest of the Judean plateau. You've seen pictures of the Grand Canyon? Well, those sheer cliffs are similar to all sides of Masada. There is only one path to the top... it's single file and exposed to the defenders the entire way. The 900 Jewish defenders (at least half were women and children) held off the Roman Tenth Legion for two years. Since the Romans could not fly, the Jews could have lasted for decades. The Romans did the next best thing to flying, they built an enormous ramp from the nearest point of the Judean highlands over to Masada.

To get to the Eyrie, an army must take the fortress at it's base... the Gates of the Moon. After that, three castles straddle the narrow path up... Stone, Snow, and Sky. As long as the Eyrie has giant cisterns and arable land, there is no reason it could not hold out forever.

But holding the Eyrie against dragons might prove difficult at best. Dany should send in her dragons under cover of darkness. They would not need to kill the defenders in one attack. I imagine night after night after night of dragon raids would sap the defenders will quickly. If the dragons could kill everyone or drive most of the defenders down to Sky, then mayhaps the dragons could land a strike force on the summit. Being caught from below, above, and from the air would force the Arryns to surrender, I think.

Egg, what do you think about medieval siege operations in the mountains, medieval winter amphibious assaults, and dragon air superiority?
 
The Eyrie isn't on top of the mountain, the Giant's Lance. The Lance is 17,000+ feet tall and climbing to the top along switchback stairs would take forever. The castle is on a shoulder of the mountain, probably halfway-to-two-thirds up, with a waterfall (Alyssa's Tears IIRC?) streaming behind it. The three waycastles are directly below it and the Gates of the Moon are at the base of the castle. The Gates of the Moon is a much larger castle and is the seat of House Arryn during winter.

Someone once asked GRRM how you'd assault the Eyrie. He said you wouldn't you'd just sit outside and starve out the defenders. The Eyrie has reasonable food storage but it wouldn't be able to hold out as long as most other castles due to its smaller size.
 
The best way to defeat the Arryns would be to ally with the Mountain Clans and let them show a secret way around the Gate or mayhaps to bribe an Arryn general. In effect, this is what the invaders of China always did. They'd buy off a disgruntled general and just walk around or under the Wall.

I would expect this to be Tyrion's method.

Oh, and sure one could just sit outside and starve the Eyrie but I think the point is that the sitting army would first need to conquer the Vale and I think the analysis shows it is next to impossible to actually get in let alone sit at the bottom of Eyrie. With dragon-power the storry may be different however.
 
Egg, what do you think about medieval siege operations in the mountains, medieval winter amphibious assaults, and dragon air superiority?

Yer right of course Boaz. There are three ways to take a fortress like the one we describe, both here and Masada (good reading that).....Treachery, Blockade and Dragons. There is no way traditional siege implements could be used. historically catapaults, scorpions, mangonels, trebuchet, scaling towers, even rams were built on site with existing timber. There really isnt much access to that in the pass leading up to the Vale. The manpower expended in porting that large of objects would be prohibitive.

I think we've discussed before that if dragons are susceptible in any way to arrows and large ballistae then forcing the dragon to make strafing runs within a mountain pass would be a good way to reduce the beasts mobility while you took shots. Of course it would be a slaughter house (or BBQ) for your own troops while this happened.

Winter amphibous landing isnt going to happen. A forced landing on a manned position requires calm waters because youre asking armored men to cross from one ship to another in choppy waters, across narrow planks,
in heavy armor that would kill them. You cant arm up on your beachhead because the enemy will be pressing you. You cant land each ship because you would have to move them out to get the next one in while being attacked...so you land as many as you can....then you lash the next ships in line to that one, then the next in line to that one....etc etc. Choppy water is both risky and prohibitive.

I dont remember which of the Feist books had the siege of Krondor but that was a decent chapter about landing on a beachhead. Once you get past the magic used to obliterate the outer defenses part....it should apply. Actually that entire series with Erik and Roo was good from a martial standpoint. He did his homework....the training, camp-building every night, the promotion of NCOs, the retreating defensive action....all were pretty much text book from a modern standpoint.
 
I find it interesting that Tyrion never got to reveal his plan to reduce the Vale of Arryn to a smoking wasteland to Tywin in AGoT. Makes you wonder if he's going to find another ruler to explain his plan to during their attempt to conquer Westeros... ;)
 
I would think that perhaps Tyrion's plan is being executed by Littlefinger to cause infighting in the Vale and weaken it from the inside, thus easier pickings for a conquering army.
 
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