A question for those who are self-published

[Teresa Edgerton]

OK - but I'm not sure there's parity between those 2 groups with respect to the decision to self-publish.

No, it's not exactly the same, but some of the issues are the same. The industry is changing and we have to change with it. There are some books I very much want to write that I'm ninety percent sure I won't be able to sell to a publisher, but I think I need to get them out of my system. So I am considering self-publishing for those, as well as a couple of backlist titles. It will depend on how well the reprints do, whether I can afford to do it at all.

And this is why I've been giving a lot of thought, lately, to what works and doesn't work in the way of self-promotion. Fortunately, I've had three years here to observe some who have made it work (most notably Mark Robson) and some who didn't.

 

[Dusk]

Victoria Strauss wrote, in the article linked to:

"But for would-be self-publishers, there are a couple of lessons to take away from Mr. Bosah's experience. First, the importance of knowing something about publishing before deciding to become a publisher, even if your only client is yourself; and second, the incredible amount of time and energy self-publishers must expend in order to have even a hope of breaking even."

I hear this sentiment most often, not from critics of self-publishing, but from successful self-publishers. I think it's worth keeping in mind. It's the exact same advice that would be given to someone who was planning to start a small press, which is essentially what a self-publishing business is.

I don't think that being realistic about the difficulties in establishing oneself as a self-publisher is necessarily the same thing as slamming self-publishing. All businesses have their difficulties. To me, slamming comes when people say, "Nobody would ever self-publish unless they failed to sell to a publisher." That's like saying, "Nobody would ever sell to a small press unless they failed to sell to a major press." Different people choose different publishing methods for different reasons.

 

[DMatusik]

Victoria Strauss wrote, in the article linked to:

I don't think that being realistic about the difficulties in establishing oneself as a self-publisher is necessarily the same thing as slamming self-publishing. All businesses have their difficulties. To me, slamming comes when people say, "Nobody would ever self-publish unless they failed to sell to a publisher." That's like saying, "Nobody would ever sell to a small press unless they failed to sell to a major press." Different people choose different publishing methods for different reasons.

I don't think anyone had any problems with the "being realistic" part. Using loaded language to color opinion one way or the other is what tends to stir the emotions in these forums. The "slamming" I referred to earlier was how people can sometimes demonstrate disagreement of opinion - in a less than respectful way (I'm not being specific about anyone or any particular thread). It's just that I've learned that this topic is probably one of the hottest hot-button topics in the forums and so I'm taping 2 10-ft poles together for protection next time

 

[Dusk]

Oh, I'd agree with that, and if my comments appeared to be criticizing anyone in particular, I'm sorry.

 

[DMatusik]

Oh, I'd agree with that, and if my comments appeared to be criticizing anyone in particular, I'm sorry.

No biggie

 

[Anthony G Williams]

I self-published both of my novels so far (via Authors OnLine, a British firm which offers a "menu" approach). For the first book, there was a reason why I wanted it published by a certain date and, after a few attempts at contacting agents and publishers, I realised that my deadline would never be hit this way.

The first book sold very well by the standards of self-published novels (over 1,500 to date and still selling steadily). Having learned more by then about the difficulties of getting published traditionally, I took the same route for my second book. This has not taken off yet, and I think I know why: the first book was an alt-WW2 story and there is a large group of enthusiasts for this, who are easily reached via the web. The second book is mainstream SF and just gets lost in the ocean of works on sale. Admittedly, I put very little effort into self-promotion, beyond my website and blog.

So the moral is, if you have a niche product for which there is an identifiable and easily-reached market, self-publishing may well be worth it. If not, it probably won't be unless you work your socks off (and maybe not even then).

For those wanting to know more, I have posted a long article on my publishing experiences and opinions here: ON PUBLISHING FICTION

 

[Dusk]

Thanks for posting about this, Mr. Williams; I'm always interested in hearing about the experiences of other self-publishers.

 

[Karen Dales]

I am just wondering, if a novel is self published can it be picked up by a traditional publisher (like yourself) for publication?

 

[John Jarrold]

Most self-published books have already been turned down by the major publishers - though not all. VERY occasionally, a self-published book that has sold thousands of copies is picked up for mainstream publication, but you're talking about .01% probably. So it's very much the exception, not the rule.

 

[Doctor Sax]

GP Taylor's SHADOWMANCER is one of the few. And, as John says, got a lot of press for the fact that it did so, indicating how unusual it is.

 

[Gary Compton]

You can get a book published by a reputable printing company for about £1.50 paperback and £2.20 hardback (1000 minimum order) so if you have written a good book (that's the key) then you have a choice do you go with a traditional agent/publisher and receive £.60 - .80P per book royalties or do you do it yourself.

If you publish yourself and do all the marketing and promoting yourself you could make £5-£7 per book and if your work sells 10,000 then that would net you £70,000 not bad eh! Certainly two years wages while you write book 2 and 3.

Now I know some people will frown on me talking about the profit and I should be writing for the love of it so before you comment on someone you have never met here is my philosophy - I love writing and do it because I want to maximize my talent and if ever I achieve a commercial standard then the businessman part of me will click in, for the simple reason that if its good enough I would like to maximize my return for the 1000's of hours spent crafting this work.

So how do you market your book, well with the internet today there is a massive machine at your disposal to help you sell books - Ebay, Amazon and your own website can get the ball rolling. Craft and country fair's every weekend will get you sales, approach your local book store with a deal and point of sale material to make them want to sell your book - maybe sale or return.

Contact your local TV and Radio station for an interview and be wind swept and interesting - they love personalities!

I am writing a book and to be honest the first draft was amateurish but I believe in my ability and am a good learner so I will keep going. I created my own site the-psychicdetective and to help its google rankings as my book is a supernatural thriller with WW11 connections I have put memorabilia on the shop to create interest and its now getting 2000 hits a month - all potential punters when the book is ready to sell (God knows when that will be!!)

I have also received 50 pre-orders so onwards and upwards...just go for it. Remember Confuscias say 'A man who nothing never make any mistake.'

When its ready I will submit it to Agents and if I get a deal offered I will consider it but I fancy doing the whole thing...Am I mad? If I do go with a publisher I am sure he will appreciate the pre-marketing work I have done, so anyway enough of my rantings!!

 

[Scarfy]

I have also received 50 pre-orders so onwards and upwards...just go for it.

That's really good going, Gary...

How long was the site up for you to get those pre-orders?

Steve

 

[Gary Compton]

I created the site in late 2006 and hopefully when I have a saleable book it will be receiving 3000 hits a month. (sometime next year hopefully)

Off course its all dependent on it being a good book as anything less would be a waste of time but I am getting there. My latest draft is 100% better than the original which I had edited by John. His comments were wonderfully helpful and I would recommend him to anyone serious about getting published...God bless his cotton socks!

Cheers Gary

 

[Troo]

They're some fantastic tips, Gary. Good luck with it!

 

[Peter Graham]

Hi Gary,

Now I know some people will frown on me talking about the profit and I should be writing for the love of it so before you comment on someone you have never met here is my philosophy

Well, I for one applaud you wholeheartedly. Publishing is (as publishers and agents make absolutely clear) a business. It can only be a good thing for writers to adopt a commercially minded attitude to their work (assuming they are looking for sales in a commercial environment) and part of that mindset is profit. Enjoying being a writer and enjoying turning a profit are not mutually exclusive concepts!

There is a tendency for some to look down their noses at the self-published, as though they just weren't good enough to get a Proper Deal. But the Proper Deal is highly unlikely to keep anyone in ink for very long, let alone pay mortgages, leccy bills and fund Friday nights at the Lamb and Flag. What's more, the self published seem to be sharper when it comes to exploiting technology and the internet to maximize revenue.

If you have the time and the nous to market yourself, I suspect that you have every chance of making more money as a successful self-publisher than if you were working under a traditional deal. At least there are no agents, publishers and Uncle Tom Cobbleigh all taking their cut (and judging by their professional addresses, I'm guessing most of them aren't living in draughty garrets, watching candle wax guttering onto the blotched page and fighting with rats for the last bit of three day old takeaway curry. Apart from Uncle Tom Cobbleigh, of course, who lives in the eighteenth century and is probably now standing in the square at the Widdecombe Hiring Fair with a straw up his nose).

If you publish yourself and do all the marketing and promoting yourself you could make £5-£7 per book and if your work sells 10,000 then that would net you £70,000 not bad eh! Certainly two years wages while you write book 2 and 3.

10,000 looks a pretty high figure. Did I read somewhere that average sales per book are dropping, even though (or perhaps because) the number of published titles are increasing?

Best of luck, Gary!

Peter

 

[Anthony G Williams]

Good luck indeed, but you need to be cautious about the income.

Most self-published books sell only 200-300 copies. Anything over 1,000 is considered a best-seller. 10,000 is about the highest I have ever heard of (for Eragon). To hit that sort of level, you need to make promoting your book pretty well a full-time job for months (or years).

A Gollancz editor recently said that their normal first print run for an SFF paperback is 4,000 copies, compared with 10,000 twenty years ago. Whether any more get printed obviously depends on how it sells. That gives you some idea of what a big commercial publisher, with all the advantages of marketing, sales agents, access to national bookstore chains etc, expects.

Not many authors can live on the income from writing, however they are published.

 

[Gary Compton]

Speaking as the eternal optimist I think 10,000 book is achievable, I sell kitchen sinks and taps to earn my crust and in 2006 I was introduced to Ebay and Amazon (you can sell not just books on the Amazon site). From a standing start I sold 2000 sinks and taps in the first year, I couldn’t believe it. All the punters wanted was a sink and tap at the right price and delivered quickly and to be of good quality. I maintained 100% feedback all the way through. For every person who needs a sink their must be a 1000 who would buy a book.

So firstly write a good book and have it edited professionally (john jarrold).Then get it printed £1.50 - £2.00 per paperback, doan Ebook also then start your marketing. With the Internet it’s like a snowball trickling down the hill, as it gathers pace its size increases and after a while you will have a huge ball of snow and ice careering down the mountain out of control and rolling through anything that gets in its way. Momentum is everything!

If my sales take off I would be willing to allow other writers to use my sales vehicle: for example I have read Anthony's book the Foresight War. It was excellent and has had good reviews on Amazon. It is WW11 fiction which fits with my subject so why not sell that as well, I make a few pennies and so does Anthony.

In 2008 there is a revolution in sales techniques, some hold back from change...we will be at the forefront of the future. Imagine if JK Rowling had self published and had the same success - why say it wouldn't happen!!

I am always driven by success and try to be positive...why not have a dream, life would be boring otherwise.

He who dares wins!!

 

[scalem X]

It can be done, if the book is good. (A lot of self-published books have flaws that hold them back. Starting from just the title)
Well thousand books is about three a day, it will still take you ten years at that rate to sell your 10000.
I do think if e-publishing and advertising is done well, you can do it easier than selling your novels door to door so to speak. On the other hand I think e-publishing puts your stuff in a much bigger market, which makes it harder to reach people.
Anyway good luck.

 

[rimworlder]

The first book sold very well by the standards of self-published novels (over 1,500 to date and still selling steadily).

Anthony,

I think it might help others more if you gave us some idea of the time frame over which you've sold those 1,500 copies, and gave us some idea of what 'selling steadily' means.

I did the self-publishing thing for a work of non-fiction back in 1993. I used a xerox machine and spiral binding - it cost about $2.50 per copy, postage was about another dollar, and the book retailed for $24.95 per. I cleared, if I remember, $19.90 per sale.

I lived (not too well) off the proceeds for about 18 months.

(The book was advice on organizing a team and competing in paintball tournaments, something I had been doing successfully for the previous decade and had a ready market for as I was regularly published in the various paintball magazines and regularly in attendance at the various tournaments.)

I could have made more per copy if I had gone the route of printing say, 2500 copies up front, but instead I opted to cash the checks/money orders and then walk on over to the print center with my original, run off the day's orders, collate, bind, address the envelopes and then walk to the post office and send them out. (I think the spiral bindings would have gone from $1.20 per to .90 per at that volume.)

The manuscript had originally been submitted to a small press (Mustang), which had previously produced the only other book devoted to paintball tactics. I was prompted to write mine as a response to that other book (very out-dated and, in many respects, very unrealistic). I spoke to the publisher on a number of occassions and, rather than discussing my submission, he kept on trying to sell me boxes and boxes of the previous title. Seems that sales were a bit slim.

Since then the book's gone out of print. (Updating it for today's game would be a new project entirely) I still get occassional requests for copies from 'old-timers'. It also got me a writing gig on the only mainstream 'big NYC publisher' produced book devoted to paintball - The Complete Guide to. Now in its fourth edition.

I have some 'ins' at various publishing firms (both fiction and non-fiction) (a cousin sold his travel book publishing company to one of the big conglomerates and is/was still highly respected over there. The same company owns the 'idiots guide' label), and even those connections, coupled with the previous proven track record can't convince those people to take another paintball book. (The other two I've written are 'How to Cheat at Paintball' - sarcastic, negative AND effective - and The Parent's Guide to Paintball, which is showing a little movement, but...).

As for fiction; I'm shopping a 'in the universe of' anthology series right now (my own writing for the project consists of the author's bible) and, again, old fannish contacts and some author friends are helping me past the slush/query pile (seems many of my old fan friends are now line editors at some of the big imprints), and I have a small press publisher friend who has offered to do the project - but we're all agreed that I ought to pursue the big guys to exhaustion first.

My own fiction is going the traditional route; again, I've been fortunate in having some professional editor friends who were willing to give it a look-see and have said 'its saleable' (about the only measure that counts), so one short will soon be off to the magazines and a novel will soon be off to a publisher. The only possible exception is a 'for-fun' project (sf & paintball) that's out there for the paintball community to read as I write it (there's a large contingent of sf/f readers/watchers amongst paintballers) and, if its sufficiently well-received, I might go back to my small press friend and see what we could do with it.

So, that's my personal experience with traditional vs SP. Use self-publishing when the market and product are a match and IF the current circumstances suggest that its a profitable match. Otherwise, go the traditional route, as its a lot easier to sit and write and get a check than it is to sit and write and copy edit and proofread and print and collate and mail and promote.

 

[Anthony G Williams]

Anthony,

I think it might help others more if you gave us some idea of the time frame over which you've sold those 1,500 copies, and gave us some idea of what 'selling steadily' means.

A small correction to what I posted earlier; on checking I have sold 1,900 copies in just under 3.5 years, for an overall average of 45 copies per month. Rather to my surprise, sales have not dropped off at all - the average for 2008 so far is still 45 copies per month. Of course, a traditional publisher would be horrified by such a slow selling rate and would I suspect have remaindered off most of the print run years ago. However, I see the sales figures for every book handled by the self-publishing firm I use and The Foresight War is by far the biggest-selling novel. Some non-fiction books do better, however.

In contrast, Scales is just not selling, despite being considered a much better novel by readers who aren't especially interested in WW2. As I said before, it's just a mainstream SF/thriller and gets lost in the vast ocean of other SF novels out there, many of which are frighteningly good.

To repeat, the moral is that if you have a niche product (fiction or non fiction) for which there is an identifiable and easily-reached market, self-publishing may well be worth it. If not, it probably won't be unless you work your socks off (and maybe not even then).

I should perhaps point out that I don't self-publish in the way which some people have described here; i.e. doing everything. For The Foresight War I paid the self-publishing firm for proof-reading, layout, cover design, printing, distribution and sales, plus advertising on amazon (as well as their own website). So thanks very much for your offer, Gary - and I'm glad you enjoyed the book - but I don't actually sell my books myself.

I have therefore basically done no more than would be expected of a traditionally-published author (except coughed up money up front, on which I have made a comfortable profit). That does mean, of course, that my profit per book sold is much less than for people who handle everything themselves.

My marketing is restricted to advertising on my blog and website, where you can read the first few chapters of each book as well as read reviews (I list 'em all, good and bad), plus occasional mentions on appropriate threads on forums - like this one!