Ragnar 'Toothless'

Status
Not open for further replies.

svalbard

Well-Known Member
Supporter
Joined
Jun 28, 2007
Messages
2,714
I have gone over this a few times now and I am unsure as to it's worth. Is it cliched, is there a place for this type of scene in modern fantasy. Any thoughts would be welcome.


They stood in the armory, the walls about them adorned with weaponry. It was an arsenal of deadly killing devices from swords, to maces, lances, bows and the dreaded morning star. Racks of rough hewed wooden beams created little aisles across the room. From these hung suits of armor, polished and oiled. Some of the armor had not been touched for a century or more, the men they had been made for were now long dead. Caric stopped at the suit of armor that had been commissioned for him by his father and finished not a month before. It had thrilled him to receive the armor, it was a sign of his manhood. He had dreamed of wearing it to joust, or better still, to war. Now the time had come…

“It is a nice piece,” said Ragnar ’Toothless’, admiring the expertly linked iron rings of the hauberk. Caric reached up to remove the helm from the stand, but Ragnar had not finished speaking. The weapons master looked around the room as he ran his hand through what hairs were left on his receding hairline.
“It will still be a nice piece when you return from the east and get to use it properly in a joust or the southern wars. But where you are going you will need something more functional.”
Caric looked at the old warrior with his thickset neck and bulging arms, of course as his nickname suggested the most striking feature of the man was his face and the deceptively weak chin. As the years had gone on the jawbone had retreated due to the lack of teeth which he had lost in a fight during his youth.

Ragnar spoke again, his gravel timbre much more suited to the Kalnordian which he always used in preference to Janterian when he could. It was a language that had been drummed into the princes over hours of training sessions.
“This should do,” he tossed Caric a conical helmet with a nose guard and flaps that protected the cheeks when tied.
“This is ancient!” exclaimed the young prince.
“True, and battered,” said Ragnar pointing out scrapes and dents that had been beaten out of the helm, the legacy of many fights or one very hard one.
“But the man that wore it died in his bed.”
Caric tried it on to find that the helm fitted perfectly, much to his surprise. He tried on the mail hauberk that was with the helm to find that it was too loose. It also felt strange as it had no sleeves. But it was light compared to the heavy armor his father had commissioned for him. Ragnar looked on approvingly.
“Not to worry,” said Ragnar, “the smiths at the barracks will be able to adjust that for you.”

They then began to regard the weaponry.
Caric asked him a question.
“Should I take a bow?” He was proficient in the use of the bow and sword, but he was best with the lance.
Ragnar shook his head. “No, in the east men are thought from boyhood to use a bow whilst at the full gallop. If I had thought you that art ten years ago, maybe...”
Mindful of the armor Caric decided to ask about the sword; “What sword should I bring?”
Ragnar turned to regard him. “What do you think you should bring?”
Caric looked about at the array of swords “Long but light, straight not curved, I dislike sabres.”
Ragnar nodded in agreement. “Three foot should do in reach, a bit of practice and you will learn the knack of using the lighter weapon.” The older man paused for a moment.
“Forget everything I have ever thought you on warfare while you are in the east. You are going back to an older time. There are no rules, no ‘code’. The Hes and the Burgundians have strange notions of what is honorable. Think quickly but act even quicker.”
Caric suddenly felt very young and not a little afraid. It was starting to seem more real now and a world away from the jousts which though violent were only lethal by accident.

Ragnar smiled at Caric. “By all means be a little afraid, it will help keep you alive. If you survive your first fight, and you should, it will seem a little less awesome.”
Alone for once without even Herk or Dagal, the prince allowed his mask to slip.
“What was your first fight like? Was it in a battle?” he asked, his voice low and hesitant. Caric was not sure if he was ready for the answer.
“All fights are battles. To fight one is to fight a thousand. There is a beginning, middle and an end. The scenario and players may change, but the fear remains the same.”
Caric took it in, he had heard Ragnar spout this rubbish before.
“But your first…”
“It was like my first woman. I was not expecting it and it ended very quickly.” Caric broke into laughter and some of the tension on his features faded. Ragnar himself smiled and then continued.
“I was fourteen; it was in mid winter, a season before I met your father in Tromsfjord. I was returning home after cutting some timber for our fire. A local man who was himself gathering lumber saw my full sled and decided it would be easier to take my kindling than to cut his own.”
“He was wrong?” ventured Caric.
“Yes, he approached me and told me he would give me a copper for the wood. It was so cold I wouldn’t have given up the wood for a kingdom. I wanted to go back indoors. Then he threatened me. I told him I would kill him, he laughed, so I did. My temper was quick to boil when I was a young man. It was a failing of mine, but I have thankfully worked on that over the years.”
“But how did you do it?” asked Caric pressing the issue.
“I picked up a piece of the timber and threw it, when he shied I stepped in and hit him a blow with my axe. He fell to the ground and every time he tried to get up I hit him again.”
Caric pictured the scene in his mind. Though Ragnar’s word were simple they painted a gruesome picture.
“How did you feel?”
“I acted…” Ragnar stopped to frame his words. “It is different for every man. For some it shatters their world and haunts their dreams, for others it changes them, it gives them a taste for violence and combat, they become villains or heroes depending on whether they won or lost.”
He shrugged.
“I don’t know what to tell you. I have never thought about it much. I have served your father for many years and killed many men for him. That is my world. You will know soon enough if it is yours.”

Caric considered the sword in his hand and twisted it about watching the light catch the runic symbols along the blade. He knew enough of the Kalnordian script to understand the legend. Wield me true and fail you I will not, the runes said and Caric suddenly smiled.
“I name you Truthgiver,” he whispered to the sword.
“A good name for all truth lies in death,” Ragnar said approvingly.
“No dallying there, Caric. You must bid farewell to the Queen,” the voice of Rolf Del Chirtar called from the doorway in to the armory.
The two, boy and man, turned to face the lord who looked at Caric with a strange expression on his face. Rolf quickly schooled his features and strode in to the armory.
“Take that stuff off or else you will frighten your mother to death. I still remember the look on her face when she first saw Thrand accoutered for war,” he said, taking the helm from Caric’s hand.
Rolf raised an eyebrow at the helm and looked to Ragnar.
“Amoled’s?” he asked.
Ragnar nodded and Caric looked at the helm with surprise. Amoled had ruled Janter five hundred years in the past and was almost as legendary as Gulnar. His rule had lasted for an incredible sixty years and the time was considered a golden age of achievement for the Janterians.
“The sword?” queried Rolf.
“Also his, but now Caric’s,” Ragnar replied.
Rolf turned to an astounded Caric and smiled.
“It seems you have chosen well for Amoled was never defeated in battle,” he said, clapping the Prince on the shoulder.
“Come let us go to your mother. She is fretful for you so it would be best if you put her at ease.”
As they left the armory Caric thought on Ragnar’s words. Life was fleeting and fragile. Death was everywhere and stalked the very halls of the palace. From a young age he had known that. Three of his siblings had not survived a year beyond their birth and his cousin Marcus had lost two of his brother’s to plague only last year. At the age of eleven he had seen a man beheaded, although it had been from a distance. But he had been close enough to see the spray of blood and the head tumble in to the basket at the end of the executioners block. He still had vivid memories of the Hooded Man holding the head up high and crying out to the crowd; “Behold the traitor! Witness the price of treachery!”
As the Hooded Man roared out the words to the baying crowd Ranald who had stood beside Caric uttered bitterly; “Such are the wages of pride. Remember that son.”
Yes, he knew about death, it had touched him but could he kill? This Caric did not know.
 
Hi Svalbard,

I'm perhaps not up to date with modern fantasy literature, but why would this be cliched? It looks fine to me as a scene in the action. It gives your readers an opportunity to see a bit more of the characters.

I rather liked it. The moment when the young blade is kitted out for war, no doubt with his head full of dreams and glory. And then his companion tells him the rather unedifying story of killing a fellow over a sled of lumber for what appears to be very little provocation. I thought that was a good counterbalance and a nice antidote to the common fantasy notion that our mightily enthewed heroes only ever kill people who deserve it.

And, for what it's worth, I think the characterisation is much stronger this time. Good stuff!

Regards,

Peter
 
Agreed.

The dialogue flows easily and I like the break-the-ice joking that seems to come naturally to Ragnar.

Remembering back to ye olde re-enactment days, armour is heavy when you carry it, but less so when you wear it, bizarrely enough. The problem is really one of encumbrance and the loss of agility, as you do infer when Caric tries on the sleeveless mail shirt and finds it lighter.

Twice, Ragnar says "thought" when I think you mean "taught".

Otherwise, I think its a good piece and it certainly wouldn't be out of place in any modern fantasy.

s
 
I'll second (third?) the "not cliched". I guess I've read a few kitting out scenes, but they're not that common and I thought this was well done.

One thing to be careful of when talking about armour and weaponry in this sort of detail is that you need to know your stuff. As soon as you get technical there are a lot of fantasy readers who'll be ready to pick it to pieces! I'm not one of them so I have no idea reading this if it's accurate or not!

There are little things that occur to me would need checking out.... do people wear the same armour to war that they wear jousting for instance? I have no idea, but you need to check they do. If you haven't already that is!

BTW if you want to read some stuff with obsessive attention to detail with regards to weapons check out the KJ Parker fencer trilogy.

The weapons master looked around the room as he ran his hand through what hairs were left on his receding hairline.

When you say "what hairs were left", the fact that he has less hair than expected is implicit. So you could just say "what hairs were left on his head" or "the few hairs he had left". As it is now it just feels a little wordy and redundant.

As the years had gone on the jawbone had retreated due to the lack of teeth which he had lost in a fight during his youth.

All of them? I can't imagine a fight where you lost all your teeth that wouldn't of completely destroyed your jaw as well. Maybe "most lost to a brutal fight during his youth, the others to neglect and decay" or something?

It was a language that had been drummed into the princes over hours of training sessions.

"hours" doesn't seem like much. Might be worth quantifying it. Countless hours, many hours.

or one very hard one.

"very hard" sounded a little lame for describing a fight. I'd say "particularly brutal" except you used brutal earlier.

Caric tried it on to find that the helm fitted perfectly

Fitted or fit? Not sure myself.

Ragnar shook his head. “No, in the east men are thought from boyhood to use a bow whilst at the full gallop. If I had thought you that art ten years ago, maybe...”

Taught? Or is this intentionally some kind of dialect?

“I name you Truthgiver,” he whispered to the sword.

OK I'll admit the cliche alarm went off here :p

Amoled had ruled Janter five hundred years in the past and was almost as legendary as Gulnar.

This line made me laugh. That's probably entirely personal though. The idea of someone being almost as legendary as someone else amused me for some reason.

They're all minor things though. On the whole I thought it was pretty good. A nice scene and a good combination of atmosphere, dialogue and developing character.
 
Hi Svalbard,

Like the others this seems fine to me, nice contrast on new unbloodied youngster full of trepidation and the older warrior.

A worry is that Ragnar's killing of the local man seems to make him a bit of a nutter on the psycho side, the wood does not seem to be enough of a justification to kill the man, especially as he hits him every time he tries to get up. Even in brutal societeies there are laws about murder and I think you may have to up the ante to justify Ragnar's reaction, or just have him knock the fool out cold and leave him there.

I like the possible reaction of his mother being antcipated, it does bring in a female element into your writing which does tend to be male orientated, rounds out the three men.

Wield me true and fail you I will not

Its a bit Yoda, I will not fail you is fne I think.

As ever I liked it.
 
I think I'd disagree with Jarshen on this one. The fact that the older man axed someone to death for no reason strengthens the characterisation and calls into question the whole "glory of killing" stuff that is so taken for granted in fantasy fiction. It's one of the reasons why I like this piece.

In most Dark Age societies, laws against murder were, in many ways, guidelines rather than anything else. Even if you were hauled before the Beak, you'd generally be looking at a fine - "weregild" was the term used in Britain for the amount payable to the family of the deceased. The early English kings spent lots of time valuing the relative worth of their subjects by ethnicity, assets and title. Bumping off people gathering winter fuel was a lot cheaper than having a pop at one of the Thegns! You had more to fear from feud that state-sanctioned punishment.

I know that fantasy violence is not like real violence, but fighting men like fighting. Sometimes they like to do it for little or no reason. But the fellow has mellowed. Youthful impetuousness has been curbed by training, years of fighting against people who were rather more prepared for it and, of course, by his age. But there is no reason to think that, in his younger days, he didn't take his share in looting, village burning, peasant-sticking or any of the other side shows of war.

Perhaps it's just me, but I like my characters flawed and believable. Tales in which serried ranks of noble, honourable and decent soldiers only ever use their skills against baying hordes of violent, evil hellspawn leave me rather cold (JRRT excepted!).

What does everyone else think?

Regards,

Peter
 
Thanks for all the comments. I am encouraged that it did not come across as cliched. To the point about Ragnar. He is a killer and there is a scene later on when he kills a assassin with a pot. His loyalty is unquestioned and he will do almost anything to protect the royal family he serves. I agree with Peter about the nature of warriors depicted in fantasy. Fighting is a dirty business and Ragnar learns that early on his life.

Ash and chopper, you are both correct. It should be taught not thought. It just goes to show that the editing never stops. I have only a passing knowledge of armor and weapons, but I am constantly researching this area. I believe I am correct on what I have mentioned though. But I am open to correction.
 
Agree with Peter here, svalbard.

The old chap is the swivel of the piece.

little change:
They stood in the armory, the walls about them adorned with weaponry. It was an arsenal of deadly killing devices from swords, to maces, lances, bows and the dreaded morning star. Racks of rough hewed wooden beams created little aisles across the room. From these hung suits of armor, polished and oiled. Some of the armor had not been touched for a century or more, the men they had been made for were now long dead. New para IMO
Caric stopped at the suit of armor that had been commissioned for him by his father and finished not a month before. It had thrilled him to receive the armor, it was a sign of his manhood. He had dreamed of wearing it to joust, or better still, to war. Now the time had come…

“It's sh*t, too fancy for where your going, boy,” said Ragnar ’Toothless’, scrutinising the expertly linked iron rings of the hauberk. New para
Caric reached up to remove the helm from the stand, but Ragnar had not finished speaking. The weapons master looked around the room as he ran his hand through what hairs were left on his receding hairline.
“Fair piece to look on, but where you're going you'll need something more functional.”
Caric looked at the old warrior with his thickset neck and bulging arms, of course as his nickname suggested the most striking feature of the man was his face and the deceptively weak chin. As the years had gone on the jawbone had retreated due to the lack of teeth which he had lost in a fight during his youth.

Adds texture to what an old warhorse would actually sound like in them days. Gives the scene a goodman/badman effect and while some can empathise with the Prince, others will chuckle at the roughness of the old warrior.

IMO and POV only.

You can easily chase the rest down and change the dia. of Rag. Besides, you'll have more fun with it!!! LOL.

Cheers, TL. *Don't worry, bit of feral coming out of me today ~ :g*
 
Hi TL,

Good to hear from you. Good point about the Ragnar's dialogue. A bit of profanity in it would suit his character. Thanks.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Thread starter Similar threads Forum Replies Date
Cli-Fi General Film Discussion 0
Brian G Turner Marvel Universe 14
S Game Discussions 0

Similar threads


Back
Top