Sword Of Truth

[Non]

Did anyone notice very scary similarities between the Dragon Reborn series by Robert Jordan and the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind, or is it just me?

 

[C Of K]

shhhhh... Don't say that out loud!!! Goodkind and minions would jump down your throat for even suggesting such, but we're civil Chrons and the gate guards would try to stop them, though Goodkind owns the awesome Sword of Truth, or at least the rights to it.

Welcome Non.

To answer...yes, I've noticed, which means that I must be entirely too young to read Goodkind...

 

[Talysia]

Lol, C of K!

Yes, I've heard there are similarities, although I haven't read much Goodkind myself.

I'll add my welcome, too, so welcome Non!

 

[Ramoth's Rider]

Im am an evil Goodkind minion and i will say only this!!

*Blows Raspberry*

Actually i must say that when i started reading the Sword of Truth books, i had previously read some of the Wheel of time books and sometimes i was thinking"Oh wait this is going to happen" and then be shocked that it didnt!

Its The Aes Sedia and the Sisters of LIght that are similar plus maybe a reluctant male lead but other than that its not as similar as people make out!

If you actually take the time to read both series you will see!!!!

 

[C Of K]

Actually, it's more than just the women with power. Similarities go far beyond the Sisters of the Light, and the Aes Sedai

Compare the roles portrayed by the Children of the Light with the Blood of the Fold. They are as similar as the Sisters and the Aes Sedai are.

The Children and the Blood were predominantly men, who considered magic (or the equivalent to magic) to be evil. They persecuted people who used special powers, and considered anyone who thought different to be pagan, or heretics...

Both were major antagonists groups at one time, but have been removed from that role in favor of more evil, or more powerful groups.

Needless to say, I've read all of Terry Goodkind's books save for his last, and there are still several other similarities.

The Creator is an easy given. He/She/It trespasses on both worlds seamlessly--and is the exact same character. The keeper and Shaitan are no different.

Then you have the Black Ajah, and the Sisters of the Dark.

You can't consider similarities without considering the protagonists. Both Richard and Rand will die unless they learn to wield awesome powers that they never even wanted. Whether it's deadly headaches, or just plain madness, the end result is the same.

I could go on and on with similarities, but that's not to say there are no differences. They aren't the exact same story, and while their intended directions are more similar than some people would like to admit, there are some saving graces as well.

 

[Ramoth's Rider]

True its been a long time since i read wheel of time but i only just finished the sword of truth series! I bought all of those because i liked them and they got me involved and I just haven't got that feeling with Wheel of time. Am trying Wheel of time again to see if i can get more this time but i have found it too easy to put the book down which i couldnt do until the end of the first goodkind book.

 

[C Of K]

Ah. That's where the differences in style and story elements come in to play. I have a feeling the original poster was referring to the similar elements in the two stories. Goodkind's style, on the other hand, is far removed from Jordan's. Concerning style, the two authors cater to different crowds much of the time. However, the elements involved in both stories are so similar that some readers enjoy both.

My earlier comments, directed toward Goodkind, and "minions" (a group I don't necessarily consider you a part of) referred back to something the author once said during an interview. He once told a reader, who noticed the similarities between the Sword of Truth, and the Wheel of Time, that they were too young to read his books. In doing so, Goodkind insulted everyone else who saw those same similarities.

In my opinion, a Goodkind minion will blindly follow this man, and speak (or type) after a fashion similar to Goodkind's own, mainly because they like the way he writes, and what he writes. Goodkind is an accomplished author, and a man.

He is first and foremost, a man...

...Fallible, capable of being mislead and misleading others, Goodkind stirs strong emotions within so many. He may not mislead people, but my point is that his ability to write compelling stories does not make him greater than people who don't believe as he believes. It does not mean that the people who disagree with him are evil dissenters that are out to do harm to him or anyone else.

I've read the Sword Of truth and the Wheel Of Time simultaneously. My honest opinion is that Goodkind thinks so lowly of the fantasy genre, that being compared to a major fantasy author is distasteful to him. But he takes no offense to being compared to Ayn Rand, who was a more philosophical writer than both Jordan or Goodkind.

Obviously I enjoyed some of Goodkinds stuff, but definitely not for all the preaching involved in the ladder half of his series. It was always there, but in recent years he's turned it up to a ridiculous degree. If you read Phantom again, pay close attention to the long drawn out story that Jebra tells Richard. She describes being a slave among the Imperial Order's army...

Remember how she described the people who pilfered all the corpses that the Imperial Order left lying around? Remember Jebra saw some of the pilferers actually kill wounded people, take whatever valuables from them that they could, and then go?

To me this was unreal.

Jebra would go out alone when she saw these things, not bound in anyway. The pilferers could come and go, but Jebra didn't? and yet she was close enough to describe incidents like that in vivid detail???

...She could have escaped long before Shota arrived to help her.

There were other instances like this. Goodkind focused too much on how low people could fall during a crisis, in order to get his preaching across, that the reality of Jebra's position in this situation completely escaped him.

I believe minions of Goodkind overlook these things when Goodkind writes, and believe that other people, who just want to read a story that makes sense, should overlook these things as well.

You, Ramoth's Rider, do not come off as a Goodkind minion to me.

At least not yet.

 

[Ramoth's Rider]

Thank you Kind sir!! Actually if you lurk around the Goodkind forums you will see that a number of his fans are getting tired of the whole holier than thou attitude. Thats the reason i dont lurk as much!
Dont get me wrong it can be fun but criticism is not taken lightly.
I totally agree with you re the later books the whole of Phantom is really just a vehicle for long drawn out philosophies or internal debates vocalised by Richard Rahl!
The earlier books were so much fun with DRagons and gars and a real point to it.
Sorry i rant!

 

[Sar]

I say, so what if they are similar in story. The differences are more interesting. Jordon weaves a complex story with many faucets, and Goodkind focuses more on expressing ideas and philosiphies. Why can't you like both kinds of story telling?

 

[chopper]

i'm quite interested in the thought - implied in some of the posts above - that people seem to come to both Jordan and Goodkind at around the same time. they're clearly thought of as being similar talents/stories somewhere along the line.

Jordon weaves a complex story with many faucets

must....resist...obvious....pun.........arrghhh -

- explains why Rand could tap into Saidin so easily!





*heads for the door*

 

[Teresa Edgerton]

Why can't you like both kinds of story telling?

Obviously people can because so many people do. These authors seem to appeal to the same sort of readers, and have worn out their welcome with many of them at about the same rate -- while maintaining their popularity with many others.

I haven't read much of Jordan, and haven't read Goodkind at all, so it wouldn't be possible for me to make a comparison. But if all the similarities listed above are accurate, it looks like Terry Goodkind, who acts like he has totally reinvented the Fantasy genre, may only have succeeded in reinventing Robert Jordan.

 

[Clansman]

Actually, I think that Goodkind just ripped off Jordan's ideas and gave them new names. Jordan started his series in the late 1980's, and though it lost its way a bit, it did not start circling the bowl like The Sword of Truth did after 3 or 4 books.

Jordan needed a strong editor to slap him once in a while. The story came back into focus in the last book, but alas, the damage to the series was done.

Goodkind needs a whole attitude adjustment, and a writing course. Treating your readers with the contempt that he does is beyond arrogance, it is idiotic. I see very few similarities in style.

I think that the same people read come to Jordan and Goodkind at the same time because this is the stuff that sits at the front of the books store, with rows and rows of hardcovers set out when a book is released. The marketing of Jordan and Goodkind is relentless.

The difference for me is this: I loved WoT when it came out. After Fires of Heaven, the series got long-winded and lost its way. RJ should have finished it by book 8 or 9, but he didn't. I did not ever love Sword of Truth. I was indifferent to the first book, and it only went downhill from there for me. Oh well.

Good one, chopper! Someone had to do it.

 

[DeepThought]

Did anyone notice very scary similarities between the Dragon Reborn series by Robert Jordan and the Sword of Truth series by Terry Goodkind, or is it just me?

Agreed and ironically Jordan borrowed/lifted heavily from Frank Herbert's Dune IMHO. It's been a long time since I've read these two... someone who's read them more recently hopefully can lend me a hand here and perhaps elaborate...;

Bene Gesserit - Aes Sedai
Fremen - Aiel

Cheers, DeepThought

 

[Clansman]

DT: I think you are on to something...

Is this similarity a rip-off, or an influence, or a tribute? The sacrificial leading man (Paul Atreides and Rand al'Thor) is also a parallel (I am sorry, but Rand has to die to end this series right).

I would put Goodkind more in the unimaginative rip-off category, as he came out with his stuff very soon after Jordan started.

But Goodkind writes "Romantic Literature" (as in, from romanticism), not fantasy literature. PHHHHHHT! You can call it a rose if you like, but it still stinks! (I stole that from Andy, the station manager on WKRP in Cincinatti).

 

[jkinnear]

DT: I think you are on to something...

Is this similarity a rip-off, or an influence, or a tribute? The sacrificial leading man (Paul Atreides and Rand al'Thor) is also a parallel (I am sorry, but Rand has to die to end this series right).

I would put Goodkind more in the unimaginative rip-off category, as he came out with his stuff very soon after Jordan started.

Personally, I expect Rand to die, but then undergo some sort of resurrection (not sure how this would come about though.)

As for Goodkind, I read the first several books in his series years ago, but I lost interest a long time ago. I haven't seen any interviews of him, but the way people describe his attitude fits perfectly with the arrogent image I have of him after reading his books.

 

[C Of K]

Not sure how much of an influence Paul Atreides was on Rand as a character. They are both pretty typical Messianic figureheads, and neither was the originator of that type of role.

The Freeman and the Aiel do seem a lot alike though.

At any rate, I'd say Star Wars ripped Dune off more than the WoT did. Now the parallels between the two desert worlds, the Messianic fathers and their twin sons and daughters is most interesting. Even Padme and Chani are paralleled in many ways.

 

[DeepThought]

...
The Freeman and the Aiel do seem a lot alike though.

At any rate, I'd say Star Wars ripped Dune off more than the WoT did. Now the parallels between the two desert worlds, the Messianic fathers and their twin sons and daughters is most interesting. Even Padme and Chani are paralleled in many ways.

Fully agree and lets not forget the the fact that George Lucas 'borrowed' heavily from Asimov's classic Foundation series of novels. But then again almost everything that comes out of the genre will be in someway influence by by what went before, though Starwars is stretching this concept to its elastic limit . but I admit to liking the original three movies (not the recent prequel crap).

Cheers, DeepThought

 

[Orian]

I think there are a lot of times we can look at different novels and series and see similarities, this reminds me so much of this, and wait, isn't that race similar to that one from this novel?

A lot of the time when I read novels lately, I read them for the way the story's told, for the development of a character, regardless of what I find similar. If the story's good, I don't overly mind if something reminds me of something else.

To specifically answer this thread though, I have seen some similarities, but in no more than I've seen "Farmboy with a lot of imagination and no real reason to go anywhere gets forced to go somewhere, gains awesome powers and becomes an accomplished leader." I've seen that in so many different novels, but enjoyed them all for different reasons.

 

[C Of K]

Ah, but Terry Goodkind does seem to mind if people find similarities with his writing and Robert Jordan's writings. I'm uncertain if the original poster realized that.

Terry Goodkind would have us believe that there are very few, very minor, similarities between the two of them. In actuality the similarities can be described as major, and are plain as day.

Many people enjoy both stories, and I enjoyed parts of both of them. It is interesting to see how similar stories will develop apart from each other, but I can not discount the obvious when an author tries to refute it.

 

[Stronty]

I read the Sword of Truth books first,not all of them yet.When i started the Wheel of Time the similarities had me checking the covers of the books as i read them to see what series i was actually reading

I did find that from book 5 or 6 Jordan would spend too much time with the Aes Sedai and not really progress the plot until the last 50 or so pages .
To quote a friend "When do these bloody women stop arguing in the book this time?"

Overall its difficult to say what series i have enjoyed most but i guess i'd better start both over again as its been years since i read some of them....thank god for the extra daylight this time of year